MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[iwu70]

Ypsi, love your T-shirt idea.  Glad your son now doesn't need a lawyer.  Mine is 27 and becoming one!  Horrors.   

Greg, sorry to say I've never had the pleasure of attending a CCIW basketball game in your house.  Have been at NPU for several drubbings of your football team by my beloved Titans and surely enjoyed the neighborhood burgers and ambiance.  Happy to hear you will maintain the narrative and wish you the best with it, plexiglass or no.  Just hope you have happier tales to report in coming years, save for when the Titans and all our elderly, obnoxious, though loyal travelling fans come to town.  Perhaps we could go out together in the neighborhood some day and find some green pea soup.  Good luck with the rest of the season.

IWU70

[iwu70]

Greg, there's been no T or call against any IWU fans/students for being on the floor at home games this year as far as I know.  I have seen the officials instruct them, push them back when an inbounds play has to be made from that side, in front of the official student / standing up section.  There's adequate spacing off the floor along the baselines at Shirk.   We have something like the Crazies here too, just some frat guys, sometimes in costume, sometimes well lubricated, but usually pretty harmless and tame, other than the normal yelling and screaming -- "air ball" and other various charming chants.  Sometimes some terrible tumbling and mocking of cheerleaders and opposing coaches or players.  Pretty much all in good fun as far as I've seen.  Not terribly creative like your guy with the rim and net.  Would be dangerous if any got feet or limbs out onto the floor especially the way the Titans and others run the fast break lanes up the side of the court.  I've seen Zimmer hit threes from the deep corner and almost literally fall into the arms of the crowd, students and others, then be pushed back onto the floor.  Pretty cool.

Only one set of home games -- men and women - left now, so only senior night at The Shirk to go vs. Elmhurst, final game of the regular season.  Titans away @ Carthage and @ Millikin next two games.

It's been an exciting season, though of course we are all disappointed we couldn't put a loss on NCC at home.  Perhaps the women will be able to win a fifth straight CCIW crown and host the conference tournament at Shirk.  Looks good for them with a two game lead with three to play.

IWU70

[Mr. Ypsi]

Ypsi, love your T-shirt idea.  Glad your son now doesn't need a lawyer.  Mine is 27 and becoming one!  Horrors.   

Greg, sorry to say I've never had the pleasure of attending a CCIW basketball game in your house.  Have been at NPU for several drubbings of your football team by my beloved Titans and surely enjoyed the neighborhood burgers and ambiance.  Happy to hear you will maintain the narrative and wish you the best with it, plexiglass or no.  Just hope you have happier tales to report in coming years, save for when the Titans and all our elderly, obnoxious, though loyal travelling fans come to town.  Perhaps we could go out together in the neighborhood some day and find some green pea soup.  Good luck with the rest of the season.

IWU70

Mark, I am truly shocked!  You NEVER made it to the crackerbox in 4 years??!  I was there twice.  (And depending on the year, I drove a bunch of guys in either a '60 or '63 Corvair [i.e. Unsafe at any Speed]!)  Is it too late to recount the ballots for your Presidential runs?

[Gregory Sager]

Greg, there's been no T or call against any IWU fans/students for being on the floor at home games this year as far as I know.  I have seen the officials instruct them, push them back when an inbounds play has to be made from that side, in front of the official student / standing up section.

I've never seen a team T'ed up for its crowd being too close to the floor, either. As I said, Falkner merely warned the scorer's table that he'd call a bench tech if the crowd didn't get off the floor. The SID and the AD then made two announcements over the P.A. and crossed the floor and told the Crazies face-to-face to get off the floor.

I've seen fans get told countless times by refs, the AD, event staff, etc., to get off of the floor during games at the crackerbox. That's nothing new. But the WC @ NPU game was the first time I've seen the crowd get warned by a ref that NPU would be charged with a T if they didn't get back into the bleachers.

Not terribly creative like your guy with the rim and net.

"My guy"?  Let's get one thing straight here, '70. The kid with the rim and net is a Wheatie. I am a North Park alumnus. Therefore, he's about as much "my" guy as Eli Manning is New England's guy.

(Yeah, I know that you simply meant "my guy" in the sense that he's the guy whom I first identified. But, still ... the whole thought of me adopting a Wheatie as some sort of [shudder] favorite student fan or something gives me a serious case of the squicks. )

Mark, I am truly shocked!  You NEVER made it to the crackerbox in 4 years??!  I was there twice.  (And depending on the year, I drove a bunch of guys in either a '60 or '63 Corvair [i.e. Unsafe at any Speed]!)  Is it too late to recount the ballots for your Presidential runs?

Dunno if you realize this, '70, but you've just been seriously shamed. Chuck's notorious on CCIW Chat for being the guy who never sees any D3 basketball games (even though everyone who dispenses the jocularity is well aware that he's quite a distance away from any D3 schools), but at least he's been to the crackerbox. Twice. For him to call you out like that ... wow.

Seriously, the crackerbox is one of the most historic and unique D3 basketball venues in the country. The fact that it's the home floor of a CCIW team makes it even more shocking that you've never been there. So you've been to a football game at NPU? Pffft. Big deal. No atmosphere, and nothing memorable has happened there since 1968. But for someone who claims to be a serious fan of a CCIW team to say that he's never been to the crackerbox ... well, I just don't get that.

Next, you'll be telling us that you've never been here, either:

[AndOne]

"Unique" is a good way to describe the crackerbox....................as it is to describe the hangar. 

I thought it was a sin to take in a game at the crackerbox, and not sample pre or post game Charcoal Delights. 

[Gregory Sager]

"Unique" is a good way to describe the crackerbox....................as it is to describe the hangar. 

I thought it was a sin to take in a game at the crackerbox, and not sample pre or post game Charcoal Delights. 

Dunno if it's a sin ... but it should be a crime.

[Pat Coleman]

Phew. Did not commit a crime.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Greg, in partial defense of Mark, I confess to never having been to Charcoal Delights - being a group of impoverished college students, we just came and left.  After your tales of ecstasy, someday I will have to make 'The Pit'!

Until Pat's site came along, I had virtually forgotten d3 sports (I didn't know IWU won the national title in 1997 until I got the alunmi magazine some months later ).  I never heard of Jack Sikma until he became a star with the Sonics.  But I've been trying to catch up, and my widely touted (and derided) absence is somewhat exaggerated - I've still only been to the Shirk once since it opened, but have been to Adrian's new facility several times!  And I've seen football games at IWU, Hope, and Alma.  But, yes, I'm a slacker!

[Gregory Sager]

Greg, in partial defense of Mark, I confess to never having been to Charcoal Delights - being a group of impoverished college students, we just came and left.  After your tales of ecstasy, someday I will have to make 'The Pit'!

We'll grant you a special dispensation since you refer to it as "The Pit".

[matblake]

Greg, in partial defense of Mark, I confess to never having been to Charcoal Delights - being a group of impoverished college students, we just came and left.  After your tales of ecstasy, someday I will have to make 'The Pit'!

We'll grant you a special dispensation since you refer to it as "The Pit".

Since I went to and follow Wheaton, I'm mostly ambivalent toward North Park, except in soccer maybe, but I'm definitely a fan of Charcoal Delights.  As a wrestler at Wheaton, most of the time I didn't have time to travel to away basketball games, but I always went to the Pit/Charcoal Delights (not sure what it was called in 92-96) and the Crackerbox, with the importance in that order. 

[NCF]

Greg, in partial defense of Mark, I confess to never having been to Charcoal Delights - being a group of impoverished college students, we just came and left.  After your tales of ecstasy, someday I will have to make 'The Pit'!

We'll grant you a special dispensation since you refer to it as "The Pit".

Since I went to and follow Wheaton, I'm mostly ambivalent toward North Park, except in soccer maybe, but I'm definitely a fan of Charcoal Delights.  As a wrestler at Wheaton, most of the time I didn't have time to travel to away basketball games, but I always went to the Pit/Charcoal Delights (not sure what it was called in 92-96) and the Crackerbox, with the importance in that order.

Where is Charcoal Delights? It sounds just like the type of place my son would like to try.
Matblake: what weight in wrestling (some of the bigger guys never have to cut weight-much to the hatred of the lower weight wrestlers) and did you also play football? My son gave up wrestling in college because of the overlap with football.

[A Lover of the Game]

Devil--

I personally don't think that there is much, if any, correlation between urban/rural fan knowledge/behavior.
Actually, I'd believe a larger percentage of rural fans may well have a greater knowledge of the game than urban fans. The reason I say this, is that in many smaller towns, the local high school or basketball team or football team, is life. Think back to the movies you've seen like Hoosiers. In many small towns the fans live for the Friday night football game, or the Saturday night basketball game. The people live and breathe local high school and/or college sports. They discuss games and individual plays in amazing detail involving every minute intricacy associated with whatever sport is the subject. When I attended college in Nebraska, I saw this first hand when I would go to high school games with my college buddies, many who came from small towns where they had 100, or often less, in their graduating class. The whole town would be there, and, believe me, they knew the game. In Nebraska, the primary sport was football as it is in other places like Texas, Penn, and Ohio, among others. In Illinois, In, Ky, NY and other places, its basketball. However, whatever the sport, the rural fans level of knowledge is certainly on par with (sub)urban fans.
I think the main difference may be in behavior. Rural fans often have the local sport of choice almost as the core of their life. Almost from birth, sport is life, and allegiance to the local  team, be it high school and/or a small college, is almost always no worse than 3rd, after God and family. On game nights sport may creep up into the #1 spot for a couple of hours. In the suburbs, and the big city, residents often have more diversions in their everyday lives. Sports may occupy a large part of their interest, and of their life, but I think its generally a safe bet that, overall, they have a few more things on their mind than the local high school or college athletic team. Taking this difference into the arena, I sense that while you will of course find many knowledgeable suburban and urban fans who love their team and certainly are not bashful either in shouting that teams praises, or condemning any fan of the opposition. I think that in a largely rural setting, you will find almost, if not, every fan in the stands united in support of their team to the point that, for those 2 hours, the game becomes almost a life or death struggle. The team you cheer for is your religion during the game, if you're cut you bleed your team's color, and any fan or referee who supports the other team or makes a call against your team can only be the devil himself. I think the only role age plays is the fact that the "elderly" fans have had their allegiance and their corresponding bias, and expressed it that much longer. As such, they may a bit more unwilling to accept the possibility that their team fouled, or that the opposition is capable of scoring without being in the lane 3 seconds, or, as in the Wesleyan/NCC game, setting an illegal screen.  JMHO 

This sounds like a viable explanation.

[iwumichigander]

Greg, there's been no T or call against any IWU fans/students for being on the floor at home games this year as far as I know.  I have seen the officials instruct them, push them back when an inbounds play has to be made from that side, in front of the official student / standing up section.  There's adequate spacing off the floor along the baselines at Shirk.   We have something like the Crazies here too, just some frat guys, sometimes in costume, sometimes well lubricated, but usually pretty harmless and tame, other than the normal yelling and screaming -- "air ball" and other various charming chants.  Sometimes some terrible tumbling and mocking of cheerleaders and opposing coaches or players.  Pretty much all in good fun as far as I've seen.  Not terribly creative like your guy with the rim and net.  Would be dangerous if any got feet or limbs out onto the floor especially the way the Titans and others run the fast break lanes up the side of the court.  I've seen Zimmer hit threes from the deep corner and almost literally fall into the arms of the crowd, students and others, then be pushed back onto the floor.  Pretty cool.

Only one set of home games -- men and women - left now, so only senior night at The Shirk to go vs. Elmhurst, final game of the regular season.  Titans away @ Carthage and @ Millikin next two games.

It's been an exciting season, though of course we are all disappointed we couldn't put a loss on NCC at home.  Perhaps the women will be able to win a fifth straight CCIW crown and host the conference tournament at Shirk.  Looks good for them with a two game lead with three to play.

IWU70

I don't recall a "T" on the crowd at Shirk.  I do remember a couple of PA announcements warning of ejection and/or a technical.  One requested by officials and the other by the athletic department.  And, I know IWU athletic department members have walked down to the student section; asked students to stay in seats and on a couple of occasion asked them to leave.

Regarding older fans enthusiasm --- yes, some do get on the refs.  And, many times I have discovered the older fans did not understand rule changes and/or emphasis by NCAA on certain rules.  But, many times the fans are right.

With respect to rural vs. (sub)urban --- in small towns you get more multi-sport athletes; and, yes in the winter basketball consumes the attention of most rural areas. My old high school still has group called "the jury" which has been in existence for over 40 years.  'The jury" membership just gets replaced as time passes.

[TitansIWU]

It took me a day to consider this one. I grew up south of I-80, and now I live north of I-80.

I think you have to keep in mind the total size of the potential audience.

Let's just examine two theoretical places.

Town A. Population 10,000 & City B. Population 100,000

Two vastly different places.

Out of the 10,000 people in town A, let's say 1000 attend high school home games.

Out of the 100,000 in town B, let's say 1000 also attend high school home games.

I have sat in full houses in both types of places.

Same crowd size.

In the smaller of the two, the front page of the paper is likely to have highlights of the "big game", the local radio station is likely to feature it, and since 10% of the entire population is in attendance, it is likely to create a "big buzz" in the community, at the barbershops, the local coffee house, the breakfast eatery, etc. The feel in the community might make it appear as though everyone is a fan, but it is still 1000 fans in attendance.

In the larger, the story will be smaller in the paper, the larger radio station might mention it, but will not feature it, and the population being larger, it won't create much of a "big buzz" in the community. It will be diluted by the many other games at many other schools going on.

I will concede those several items when comparing the two games. The effect on the entire community is greater in the smaller town. The same way any effect is greater in a smaller community. Consider a murder in town A, it is HUGE news. Consider a murder in city B, still news, but not huge news, happens every day.

However, to the 1000 people in attendance, it makes no difference what size town or city they come from, they have equal passion, equal knowledge, equal enthusiasm, equal interest, etc.

So, having seen both, I don't think that you can use the community size that you view your basketball in (urban vs rural upbringing) as a basis for determining a sports fan's knowledge or interest level.

I think fans in both town A and city B are equal.

I hope game time hurries up and gets here, all of this thought about social structure and research on the minds of the fan is making me tired!

GO TITANS!

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Charcoal Delights is still "the" destination for grill food around North Park, though it has gotten a little pricey for the students.  While it does not have the "greasy spoon" ambiance of the Old "Pit" or the long-gone Terminal Grill on Lawrence Avenue.  Charcoal Delights has been such a part of the North Park experience that the alumni still flock there when they visit the campus.

I often visit the Charcoal Delights on Oakton Street in Des Plaines and I understand they have another one in Crystal Lake, but I've never been to that one.

dgp