MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

I have problems seeing Augustana getting in should North Central win the conference tournament.  As Q pointed out their strength of schedule is a major problem and not even being regionally ranked leaves them on the outside looking in despite their presence in the national rankings.

I agree that if the status quo holds, Augie won't get a Pool C berth. But there's still some games to be played between now and Selection Day, and the Midwest Region rankings can still change.

I think last night's loss likely puts NCC into a Pool A or bust situation due to another year of pre-conference flops.

I don't agree, for several reasons. First, NCC doesn't exist in a vacuum; of the three teams below them in the regional ranking, one (Illinois Wesleyan) lost a game last week -- to North Central, it's important to note -- and one of the other two will take a loss next week, as Edgewood and Concordia (WI) are due to play each other. So the Cardinals are being cushioned from below, so to speak. More importantly, you're looking at NCC's overall record, which is deceptive. Yes, the Cardinals are 16-7, but the selection committee doesn't look at that. The selection committee cares about a team's in-region record. The Cards played three out-of-region games before Christmas, two losses (Albion and Scranton) and a win (Bridgewater). They don't count towards the primary selection criterion of in-region winning percentage. To put it another way, you really need to stop thinking of NCC as 16-7 in terms of Pool C consideration when it's actually a much more stalwart 15-5.

IMO, if Wheaton can get to 21 wins they'll get in, which entails a regular season ending Viking sweep and a win in the conference semis.

Again, don't think in terms of overall record. Wheaton's played two out-of-region games, a win over Wilmington and a win over Calvin. The relevant win number that Wheaton is trying to reach is 19, not 21.

[Gregory Sager]

With a couple games to play, here is where I am in terms of the all-CCIW team...

1st
Tim McCrary (Sr), Wheaton (Most Outstanding Player)
Jordan Zimmer (Sr), Illinois Wesleyan
Aaron Tiknis (Jr), North Central
Malcolm Kelly (Jr), Carthage
Derek Raridon (Jr), North Central

2nd
Mark Holmes (Jr), North Park
Landon Gamble (So), North Central
Bryant Voiles (Sr), Augustana
Zack Boyd (Sr), Elmhurst
Eliud Gonzalez (Sr), Illinois Wesleyan

3rd
Aaron Garriott (Jr), Wheaton
Nick Sanford (So), Elmhurst
Troy Rorer (Sr), Augustana
Mike Gabriel (So), North Park
Spencer Schultze (Sr), Wheaton


Left on the table...

* Victor Davis (So), Illinois Wesleyan
* Kevin Reed (Jr), Illinois Wesleyan
* C.J. Goldthree (So), North Central
* Kevin Gillespie (Sr), North Central
* Brian DeSimone (Sr), Augustana
* Luke Johnson (Fr), Carthage
* Tyler Peters (So), Wheaton
* Rodney Clark (Jr), Millikin


I pretty much listed the players in the order I selected them.  I feel good about those first 14...I think the final spot (Spencer Schultze) comes down to the last 2 games.

This is basically what I have as well, Bob, except that I have Gamble on the first team and Raridon on the second team, and Luke Johnson on the third team instead of Schultze.

Q, can't really argue very much with your all-CCIW selections.  Yes, might be a bit different at the tail end of the third squad.  Not sure there about Troy Rorer of Augie.

What's not to be sure about? Rorer's in the top ten in the league in scoring, assists, FT percentage, and trey percentage, and he leads the league in A:TO ratio. He's the league's top rebounding guard. And, while this is more subjective, I feel pretty safe in saying that he's the best defender in the league at the off guard position -- or that he's at least running neck-and-neck with Malcom Kelly in that category.

Not only does Troy Rorer belong on the All-CCIW team, I doubt that there's a coach in this league who won't put Rorer on his ballot. Troy Rorer isn't flashy, but he's an excellent basketball player.

[Titan Q]

Regarding that "final spot", here is a look at the 4 forwards that would seem to be in the mix...

(CCIW-only stats)

* Victor Davis (So), Illinois Wesleyan - 10.7 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 49-101 FG (.485), 5 blocks

* Spencer Schultze (Sr), Wheaton - 10.3 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 50-86 FG (.581), 2 blocks

* Luke Johnson (Fr), Carthage - 9.5 ppg, 5.1 ppg, 41-88 FG (.466), 25 blocks-league leader

* Kevin Reed (Jr), Illinois Wesleyan - 8.6 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 45-73 FG (.616-league leader), 5 blocks


That's pretty tight statistically...which is why I think it will be settled in the next two games.

My guess is that a tie goes to the senior on the "contender"...which is why I landed on Schultze.

[augie_superfan]

This next week's rankings will show how much weight the "results vs. regionally ranked opponents" carries.  Augustana's SOS took a slight hit over the course of the week but shouldn't have been as bad as the hits taken by Concordia (Wis.) and Edgewood.  Now that we have regionally ranked teams, we can add in the fact that Augustana is 3-4 vs. ranked teams whereas Concordia (Wis.) is 0-1 and Edgewood is 2-2.....hopefully I got those correct. 

If Augie can defeat Carthage and Wheaton, and make it to the conference championship game, then they will have a very good shot at a Pool C in my opinion.  They would have an SOS probably between 0.490 and 0.500 along with a 5-4 record vs. regionally ranked opponents.  But to even have this conversation they need to beat 3 pretty good teams to get there.  Should be a fun next 2 weeks.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

CCIW and North Central fans, coach Todd Raridon will be on Hoopsville tonight!

Show runs from 7 - 9 PM EST at www.d3hoopsville.com. Coach's Rairdon's segment should be around 7:40ish EST.

[diehardfan]

I love how many Wheaton (student?) posters there are on the boards. I remember seeing another girl reading d3hoops.com when I was posting (back in the days when the board still scrolled off, lol), but we've always been few and far between. Hiii little Wheaties.

I can't believe we haven't won at the airplane hanger since I left Wheaton. I've never actually seen us lose there, and NCC is so close to our campus, that I kind of always thought of it as a second home. The last game I saw there was pretty epic with this crazy Martin Trimiew dunk that earned him a technical. That game must have been the last time we won there till yesterday. Weird. Well, I am glad that my return to the boards propelled Wheaton back to a victory there. Haha...

I am still pretty bitter about the Carthage loss. I know I just came back, but I was pretty excited about the idea that we could host the CCIW tourney, which is obviously not very likely now. Uhm, go North Park?

April, a very good move passing up the Griz and Decatur.  I got criticized for never making it to the CrackerBox for a loud, raucous game with the NPU Crazies.  Now I'm commending, complimenting you on your good judgement in never making it to the Griz and Millikin!  Not much reason to go there these days for basketball, unless of course you are more a fan of the women's game.  Just say'in.  (But Wheaton and Haaarvard?  Come on!!!).  When are Kent Raymond or Mr. McCrary joining the Knicks?  Gotta love (Harvard) Linsanity.

Considering how many former Wheaties that have connections to the NBA, and the fact that I am pretty sure that the Knicks were the team that showed interest in Joel Kolmodin, I think you just proved my argument  Sort of...

Ned Gulbranson = still holds the record for sharpest elbows in CCIW history.  Still see him occasionally at Wheaton.

I'm not sure I remembered that he was a player. That makes those commercials even more iconic.

(Yeah, I know that you simply meant "my guy" in the sense that he's the guy whom I first identified. But, still ... the whole thought of me adopting a Wheatie as some sort of [shudder] favorite student fan or something gives me a serious case of the squicks.

Don't lie, once upon a time in a galaxy far far away your fav student fan was totally me. 

We never thought of you as a student, April. We thought of you more as a charming demographic anomaly.

You just can't admit it, can you? It's okay, because we both know the truth.

Millikin's football field, Lindsay Field, is a lot more interesting than the Griz. It's the only grass field left in the CCIW (although that will soon change), and it's very steeply pitched for drainage purposes, so that when you're running to the sidelines you're also running sharply downhill. When I broadcast the NPU @ MU game last fall, I had a hard time distinguishing when a runner went out of bounds on the far sidelines, because I couldn't see his legs from the press box. Honestly, football there is like one big game of "King of the Hill". Very weird, very unique, very interesting place to see a football game.

I am not really a fan of turf. I know it's not logical, but I like it old school. I am sure the new Hope arena is nice, but it can't possibly be as awesome as the Holland Civic Center and it's fallout shelters. The only place I've watched a game that's come close to that is Cameron (sorry for the DI reference, my brother went to Duke for grad school and all my live basketball games recently were there). Watching a game in a gym that has a lot of history is just so much more epic, and playing on a field that's really susceptible to the elements and mud and dirt... it's just different. The Millikin stadium sounds kind of awesome.

Since Todd Rariden totally just fibbed on Hoopsville and said he doesn't read these boards, I just thought I'd say hi to him.

[Mr. Ypsi]

April, a very good move passing up the Griz and Decatur.  I got criticized for never making it to the CrackerBox for a loud, raucous game with the NPU Crazies.  Now I'm commending, complimenting you on your good judgement in never making it to the Griz and Millikin!  Not much reason to go there these days for basketball, unless of course you are more a fan of the women's game.  Just say'in.  (But Wheaton and Haaarvard?  Come on!!!).  When are Kent Raymond or Mr. McCrary joining the Knicks?  Gotta love (Harvard) Linsanity.

Considering how many former Wheaties that have connections to the NBA, and the fact that I am pretty sure that the Knicks were the team that showed interest in Joel Kolmodin, I think you just proved my argument  Sort of...

Since I get so much static for my (admittedly) perfunctory attendance in recent years (i.e., the last 40+! ), I'll take this opportunity to show my student credentials!  I went to Decatur all four years (and the Griz IS a bit of a dump ).  Of course, three of those four years I got to watch Jesse Price, arguably the greatest CCIW player ever.

I'll grant that in recent years there is little reason even for Titan folks to take the drive south.  Millikin MBB has fallen to the depths of NPU football - I sincerely hope that both are on the right track to redemption.  The conference is so much more interesting without a perennial Caltech or Earlham.

[AndOne]

Since Todd Rariden totally just fibbed on Hoopsville and said he doesn't read these boards, I just thought I'd say hi to him.

With regard to fibbing, you can bank on the fact that the next time Todd Raridon reads D3Hoops will be the first. To put it another way, I've known him since he came to NCC, and he hasn't done it yet. 

I think you'll find thats true of most, if not all, of the CCIW coaches.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

For anyone who missed Coach Todd Raridon on the Hoopsville tonight, the archive can be found here: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2011-12/feb12

The whole show is worth watching/listening to, but Coach Raridon's segment is around 50 minutes into the show.

Thanks!

[Dennis_Prikkel]

April, a very good move passing up the Griz and Decatur.  I got criticized for never making it to the CrackerBox for a loud, raucous game with the NPU Crazies.  Now I'm commending, complimenting you on your good judgement in never making it to the Griz and Millikin!  Not much reason to go there these days for basketball, unless of course you are more a fan of the women's game.  Just say'in.  (But Wheaton and Haaarvard?  Come on!!!).  When are Kent Raymond or Mr. McCrary joining the Knicks?  Gotta love (Harvard) Linsanity.

Considering how many former Wheaties that have connections to the NBA, and the fact that I am pretty sure that the Knicks were the team that showed interest in Joel Kolmodin, I think you just proved my argument  Sort of...

Since I get so much static for my (admittedly) perfunctory attendance in recent years (i.e., the last 40+! ), I'll take this opportunity to show my student credentials!  I went to Decatur all four years (and the Griz IS a bit of a dump ).  Of course, three of those four years I got to watch Jesse Price, arguably the greatest CCIW player ever.

I'll grant that in recent years there is little reason even for Titan folks to take the drive south.  Millikin MBB has fallen to the depths of NPU football - I sincerely hope that both are on the right track to redemption.  The conference is so much more interesting without a perennial Caltech or Earlham.

the griz open about 1971 ot 72 - prior to that the big blue played most of their home games in the historic stephen decatur gym in downtown decatur, which no longer exists.  Jesse Price never played in the griz - unless he was an alum.

[Titan Q]

the griz open about 1971 ot 72 - prior to that the big blue played most of their home games in the historic stephen decatur gym in downtown decatur, which no longer exists.  Jesse Price never played in the griz - unless he was an alum.

Chuck would never let the facts get in the way of a good post.

[sac]

I am not really a fan of turf. I know it's not logical, but I like it old school. I am sure the new Hope arena is nice, but it can't possibly be as awesome as the Holland Civic Center and it's fallout shelters. The only place I've watched a game that's come close to that is Cameron (sorry for the DI reference, my brother went to Duke for grad school and all my live basketball games recently were there).

There are times I miss the Civic Center, but we're unbelievably in our 7th season at DeVos Fieldhouse and to this day my first reaction walking in the door is still 'I can't believe we play here.'   I do miss its charm and boxed in feeling, DeVos is nice but it takes a great deal more effort to get the crowds in the game.  There's only been a handful of times it rivaled anything in atmosphere to the Civic.  On the otherhand, more students and more Hope fans can attend games and that is a very good thing.  Hope is also in full control of the facility, something they were not at the Civic Center.  Even though I loved the old place I wouldn't trade anything for DeVos.

The Civic Center is still there, still dutifully providing a place of refuge for Holland's residents from any attacks from the red menace.  I've set foot in there only once in these 7 years, that for a semi-pro game a couple years ago.  Still looked and smelled mostly the same.  I think they've done some refurbishing since then, though I have no idea what that could have been.

Now its the sole home of Holland Christian High School games and the Holland Summer League.  Otherwise it looks quiet and cold most Wednesdays and Saturdays in the winter now.

I've heard rumors that Hope might get to play a game there next year due a scheduling conflict with the NCAA Women's Volleyball Championships being played at DeVos.  This would be awesome of course, but it is to this point just a rumor.


Now back to your CCIW chat, and hi April. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

the griz open about 1971 ot 72 - prior to that the big blue played most of their home games in the historic stephen decatur gym in downtown decatur, which no longer exists.  Jesse Price never played in the griz - unless he was an alum.

Chuck would never let the facts get in the way of a good post.

Aw, c'mon - I would if I knew the facts.

I didn't realize that the Griz and Stephen Decatur were different facilities.  Stephen Decatur was a worn-out dive.  I guess I have never seen the Griz.  (And, barring a miraculous revival by the Blue, I doubt I ever will. )

So, let the Decatur-bashing end - they HAVE built something new in the last forty years!

[Titan Q]

This is the Griswold Center...

http://basketball.isport.com/Image.ashx?rs=440x330&dir=images\Picture&File=Img_641305_234811.jpg


The side the photo is taken from is basically a mirror image of the side you can see.

The Griz is not a dump - it's just empty nowadays.   

Now Decatur...yes...that is a dump.

[Titan Q]

Here is the unfortunate "curtain" at the Griswold...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh21sQykbuU



Contrast with this from a Millikin/IWU game 3 seasons ago, with no curtain...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_WGqHH7B08

(The infamous Sean Dwyer turns it over, Doug Sexauer gets dunked on video.)


That IWU game video was well into the fall of the Big Blue, but you can sort of imagine what that place was like with 2500-3000 in there for the IWU game each year - loud, hostile, and just a tough place to play.