MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[wheels81]

I would have given the nod to Tiknis on 1st team instead of Rairdon.  He was the most consistent and didn't disappear in big games like his heralded teammate.  His conf. scoring and rebounding were both higher than the coach's son.
Andone,
Schultze made more than layups,  He was pretty effective from outside as well and had the green light to shoot.  I would see no problem with Schultze on 2nd and  the NCC son of the coach on on 3rd team.  If we are just looking at conf. stats.

[Titan Q]

Wow those regional rankings are definitely a surprise.  With that win last night, Wheaton may closer to a lock than orginially thought based on those rankings.  No surprise that Augie slid in but I am surprised to see NCC fall below Concordia.  Certainly also good news for Illinois Wesleyan based on the CCIW shakedown.

I believe Wheaton is now a Pool C lock.  I think the Thunder are in, regardless of the results of the game vs IWU.

[Gregory Sager]

Wow, Greg, didn't know you were such a defender of the Doggies and their doglike performance last eve.  Guess you'd disagree then with the chant, " Worse than North Park" . . . just say'in.  Your boys are home this weekend.

It's classy, take-the-high-road posts like this one that make reading your posts such a pleasure, '70.

Is your reading comprehension that poor? Did you not understand these words:

I'm really not expecting anything out of Augie at all. It's a team that has some flaws, and I've been one of the people who's been pointing out those flaws all season long. I just think that this rush to judgment against the Doggies based upon an ugly performance tonight is hasty and ill-advised.

... when I posted them last night?

OK, [draw deep breath] let me try again. I am not defending Augie. And I am not making any sort of apology or excuse whatsoever for the rancid performance that the Doggies displayed last night. I don't know how much more clearly I can say that. Go back and look thru the archives at everything that I've said about Augustana this season. I've been as critical of that team as has anybody in this room. And if you look in the national rooms, you'll find more than one instance over the course of the season in which I've stated that the d3hoops.com poll has ranked Augie too high.

All that I am saying -- and I'm pretty sure that everyone else who reads this room has already figured this out -- is that Augustana's stinkola game last night will not necessarily carry over into Friday night, and that Augie is still a dangerous and formidable opponent. And the two NCC fans who are participating in this discussion (one of whom is arguably the Cardinals' #1 men's basketball supporter) agree with me:

So now NCC gets to play the team that some people seem pretty down on. Well, I'll tell you one thing--the Cardinals are not even close to taking a victory over Augie for granted. Home court or not, they know they have a very tough matchup ahead of them Friday night. Do I think they'll win? You bet, but I also think it will be a tough knock 'em down drag 'em out battle. There is very little separation between these 4 teams and no team in the conference tourney can be taken lightly. Wheaton thumped Augie this evening, but what do you call what Augie did to WC earlier in the season?

I'm sensing the CCIW conference tourney winner will be the team whose coaches best show their players where the holes are in their opponents offensive and defensive sets, and whose players play tough, and, especially smart to take advantage of those openings.   

Agreed. The tournament should be exciting for the fans-stressful for the coaches. Good luck to the Cards!

[Gregory Sager]

Also, there was a cheer from the students last night that is sure to entertain or irk some in this room. "Worse than North Park" went on for a while.

That's lazy cheer section research.  A quick look at the CCIW webpage could have led to better chants like, "We want Millikin (clap, clap, clap clap clap)"  or "We beat Elmhurst twice."

Hahahahahahahahaha!

I'm not the least bit irked by it. I think that some of you have missed the intent of the cheer. On Saturday night Wheaton dumped NPU by 16 points. Last night, Wheaton had a lead that was well into the 20s when that cheer started. The cheer thus meant (or at least this was how I interpreted it when I heard it), "Wheaton's beating your team by more than it beat the seventh-place team three nights ago," not, "Your team is worse than the seventh-place team." I'm sure that I'll get accused of having royal-blue-and-gold ears for interpreting it that way, but, given the close proximity between Saturday night's game and Tuesday night's game, that seems to me to be the logical interpretation.

It still doesn't make North Park look good. But, then again, why should I or any other NPU fan protest that? Our team was bad, bad, bad this season, and it certainly reached an epic level of baditude at King Arena last Saturday.

[Titan Q]

Congratulations to Jordan Zimmer on the unanimous 1st Team selection - he had a tremendous CCIW season for the Titans.

Also congrats to Eliud Gonzalez and Victor Davis - both played huge roles in leading IWU to a 10-4 finish.  I'm looking forward to watching Victor's career progress -  I think his upside is very big. 

[Gregory Sager]

Last night's T on Giovanine was for a loud BS directed at the refs. He was actually pretty subdued for most of the game based on the scoreline however.

Also, there was a cheer from the students last night that is sure to entertain or irk some in this room. "Worse than North Park" went on for a while. Regardless of that, it was good to see a semi full King Arena on a Tuesday, the fans were up for the game and knew what was at stake.

definitely entertaining!!  wheaton may not have the largest student fan base -- but it certainly is the cleverest.  now i'll be awaiting dr. sager's blue-and-gold-lensed rebuttal...

No rebuttal from me. I agree with you, with one caveat: Wheaton has the cleverest fan base this year. NPU's fan base was MIA this season.

[Gregory Sager]

For me, no changes since I first posted this a weeks or so ago.  My all-CCIW team...

1st
Tim McCrary (Sr), Wheaton (Most Outstanding Player)
Jordan Zimmer (Sr), Illinois Wesleyan
Aaron Tiknis (Jr), North Central
Malcolm Kelly (Jr), Carthage
Derek Raridon (Jr), North Central

2nd
Mark Holmes (Jr), North Park
Landon Gamble (So), North Central
Bryant Voiles (Sr), Augustana
Eliud Gonzalez (Sr), Illinois Wesleyan
Zack Boyd (Sr), Elmhurst

3rd
Aaron Garriott (Jr), Wheaton
Nick Sanford (So), Elmhurst
Troy Rorer (Sr), Augustana
Mike Gabriel (So), North Park
Spencer Schultze (Sr), Wheaton

Pretty good Q!


Jordan Zimmer*    Illinois Wesleyan    G    Sr.    Delavan, Ill./H.S.
Tim McCrary*    Wheaton    F    Sr.    Wilmette, Ill./New Trier
Landon Gamble    North Central    F    So.    Joliet, Ill./Lockport Township
Derek Raridon    North Central    G/F    Jr.    Plainfield, Ill./Neuqua Valley
Malcom Kelly    Carthage    G    Jr.    Kenosha, Wis./Reuther
               
SECOND TEAM               
Troy Rorer    Augustana    G    Sr.    Bettendorf, Iowa/H.S.
Bryant Voiles    Augustana    F    Sr.    Byron, Ill./H.S.
Aaron Tiknis    North Central    F    Jr.    Chicago, Ill./Grand River Academy
Zack Boyd    Elmhurst    G    Sr.    Warrensburg, Ill./Warrensburg-Latham
Aaron Garriott    Wheaton    G    Sr.    Bloomington, Ill./Central Catholic
               
THIRD TEAM               
Mark Holmes    North Park    F    Jr.    Elk Grove Village, Ill./Guerin Prep
Eliud Gonzalez    Illinois Wesleyan    G    Sr.    Oak Lawn, Ill./Richards
Spencer Schultze    Wheaton    F    Sr.    Grand Rapids, Mich./Christian
Victor Davis    Illinois Wesleyan    F    So.    Galesburg, Ill./H.S.
C.J. Goldthree    North Central    G    So.    Fairview Heights, Ill./Belleville East

differences were Gamble for Tiknis on first team, Garriot for Gonzalez on the 2nd team, Royer for Holmes on 2nd team, and Goldthree for Sanford on 3rd team

... and Davis instead of Gabriel on the third team.

I'm disappointed for Mike Gabriel's sake, because I think he deserved to make the All-CCIW team. (And Bob obviously agreed with me.) But I understand why the coaches only took one NPU player. It's just too counter-intuitive to put two players from a 2-12 team on the All-CCIW squad, whether they deserve it or not. Nick Sanford seems to have been left off for similar reasons. In fact, the bottom half of the league only had three players named to the All-CCIW team. Since the coaches have decided to put a premium upon the final standings when they name the team, that makes sense. As I've said before, the bottom half of the league was really down this year. (There were only two cases of a second-division team beating a first-division team this year; Elmhurst's win over Augie, and Carthage's win over Wheaton.)

Anyway, congrats to Mark Holmes for representing the Park on the All-CCIW team and for having such a fine year. And kudos to Mike Gabriel as well. Whether or not the NPU coaches can find the talent to put around those two for next season, it's still a pleasure to watch two players as good as Holmes and Gabriel every game.

[Gregory Sager]

Last night's T on Giovanine was for a loud BS directed at the refs. He was actually pretty subdued for most of the game based on the scoreline however.

Also, there was a cheer from the students last night that is sure to entertain or irk some in this room. "Worse than North Park" went on for a while. Regardless of that, it was good to see a semi full King Arena on a Tuesday, the fans were up for the game and knew what was at stake.

The tv crew kept talking about the huge crowd, from what we could see it was anything but
huge.  I've seen more at Golden Corral at the chocolate mountain!

The 1,532 attendance figure posted does seem rather high, but the student-section side (where the camera is located) could've been pretty full and it would've been impossible to see that from the WETN feed.

[Gregory Sager]

Wow those regional rankings are definitely a surprise.  With that win last night, Wheaton may closer to a lock than orginially thought based on those rankings.  No surprise that Augie slid in but I am surprised to see NCC fall below Concordia.  Certainly also good news for Illinois Wesleyan based on the CCIW shakedown.

I'm a little baffled by it, too. North Central not only won both of its games last week (albeit over the league's two weakest teams), it added two more in-region wins over regionally-ranked opponents by virtue of the fact that Augustana made the rankings this week for the first time. And yet the Cards dropped two places, falling behind a team that wasn't even ranked last week and another team that it's beaten twice head-to-head. What's up with that?

* NCC's in-region record versus regionally-ranked opponents is now 4-2 (2-0 vs. Augie, 2-0 vs. IWU, 0-2 vs. Wheaton).

* Wheaton's in-region record versus regionally-ranked opponents is now 4-4 (0-1 each vs. Hope and Wash U, 2-0 vs. NCC, 1-1 each vs. IWU and Augie).

* IWU's in-region record versus regionally-ranked opponents is now 3-5 (1-0 vs. Wash U, 0-1 vs. UWW, 0-2 vs. NCC, 1-1 each vs. Wheaton and Augie).

* Augie's in-region record versus regionally-ranked opponents is now 3-5 (1-0 vs. UWSP, 0-1 vs. Wash U, 0-2 vs. NCC, 1-1 each vs. Wheaton and IWU).

I think that that's right. If I missed a game, somebody please point it out.

It's hard to imagine that NCC's SOS plummeted that steeply in one week. Perhaps Todd Raridon should've just bought Dylan Howard and Matt Nadelhoffer each a steak dinner at Gibson's and got them to agree to call off last week's games.

[Gregory Sager]

I would have given the nod to Tiknis on 1st team instead of Rairdon.  He was the most consistent and didn't disappear in big games like his heralded teammate.

I agree. Tiknis earned first-team honors, and I think that the coaches had a collective mental hiccup in leaving him off of the top shelf. However, I'm glad to see that they did put Landon Gamble on the first team. As I said last week, he earned it; he's the best center in the league.

It should've been Gamble and Tiknis on the first team, not Raridon and Gamble.

[augie_superfan]

Wow those regional rankings are definitely a surprise.  With that win last night, Wheaton may closer to a lock than orginially thought based on those rankings.  No surprise that Augie slid in but I am surprised to see NCC fall below Concordia.  Certainly also good news for Illinois Wesleyan based on the CCIW shakedown.

I'm a little baffled by it, too. North Central not only won both of its games last week (albeit over the league's two weakest teams), it added two more in-region wins over regionally-ranked opponents by virtue of the fact that Augustana made the rankings this week for the first time. And yet the Cards dropped two places, falling behind a team that wasn't even ranked last week and another team that it's beaten twice head-to-head. What's up with that?

* NCC's in-region record versus regionally-ranked opponents is now 4-2 (2-0 vs. Augie, 2-0 vs. IWU, 0-2 vs. Wheaton).

* Wheaton's in-region record versus regionally-ranked opponents is now 4-4 (0-1 each vs. Hope and Wash U, 2-0 vs. NCC, 1-1 each vs. IWU and Augie).

* IWU's in-region record versus regionally-ranked opponents is now 3-5 (1-0 vs. Wash U, 0-1 vs. UWW, 0-2 vs. NCC, 1-1 each vs. Wheaton and Augie).

* Augie's in-region record versus regionally-ranked opponents is now 3-4 (1-0 vs. UWSP, 0-2 vs. NCC, 1-1 each vs. Wheaton and IWU).

I think that that's right. If I missed a game, somebody please point it out.

It's hard to imagine that NCC's SOS plummeted that steeply in one week. Perhaps Todd Raridon should've just bought Dylan Howard and Matt Nadelhoffer each a steak dinner at Gibson's and got them to agree to call off last week's games.

The problem is that for this week's rankings, Augie was not previouly ranked so NCC doesn't yet get those 2 games.  They are still 2-2 vs. regionally ranked opponents.  Their SOS droppd down to 0.501 which is a decent drop from the 0.525 (I think) that they had last week.  In the common opponents, Concrdia (wis.) went 3-1 while NCC went 1-2.  That was probably the tiebreaker beteen those two teams.

[Gregory Sager]

The problem is that for this week's rankings, Augie was not previouly ranked so NCC doesn't yet get those 2 games.  They are still 2-2 vs. regionally ranked opponents.

That makes no sense at all. Why should the committee put North Central's wins over Augie on hold for a week when it has already decided to put Augie into the Midwest Region ranking this week? That's just a cockeyed way of doing things.

Their SOS droppd down to 0.501 which is a decent drop from the 0.525 (I think) that they had last week.  In the common opponents, Concrdia (wis.) went 3-1 while NCC went 1-2.  That was probably the tiebreaker beteen those two teams.

Both good points. What is Concordia (WI)'s SOS right now?

[cardinalpride]

For me, no changes since I first posted this a weeks or so ago.  My all-CCIW team...

1st
Tim McCrary (Sr), Wheaton (Most Outstanding Player)
Jordan Zimmer (Sr), Illinois Wesleyan
Aaron Tiknis (Jr), North Central
Malcolm Kelly (Jr), Carthage
Derek Raridon (Jr), North Central

2nd
Mark Holmes (Jr), North Park
Landon Gamble (So), North Central
Bryant Voiles (Sr), Augustana
Eliud Gonzalez (Sr), Illinois Wesleyan
Zack Boyd (Sr), Elmhurst

3rd
Aaron Garriott (Jr), Wheaton
Nick Sanford (So), Elmhurst
Troy Rorer (Sr), Augustana
Mike Gabriel (So), North Park
Spencer Schultze (Sr), Wheaton

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how Raridon is first team while Schultze is third team.  Their stats are very close to each other.  Are you basing it on team records?

Actually, you're missing quite a bit, 74impala.
Exactly which statistics did you carefully review?
Perhaps you looked at rebound totals which show Schultze ranked 15th in the league while Raridon wasn't listed among the top 20 leaders. Its no secret the 6'6" 215 lb Spencer Schultze is a better rebounder than the 6'6" 190 lb (team rosters numbers) Derek Raridon.
Perhaps FG percentage? Lets see, Schultze who stands under the basket and rarely shoots anything other than a layup, ranks 3rd, and Raridon, who plays on the wing and who usually shoots from 12-19 feet, is 4th. You would think Derek would be much further down the list rather than just 1 spot lower than Schultze.
What about assists? I see Raridon is shown as being tied for 7th while Schultze doesn't appear in the top 15.
And did you consider FT percentage? Hummm, Raridon was the league leader while Schultze again does not appear among the top 15 listed.
I'm sure you also considered the Assist/Turnover Ratio figures. Yikes, Raridon was the league leader here too. And Schultze is, again, does not appear among those listed.

* Spencer Schultze is a very good basketball player. He excels at the things he does well--rebounds and making layups.
He is a valuable piece of a very good Wheaton team. AND---He gets my "heads up play" of the year award for his rebound/putback basket to send the 1st Wheaton/NCC game into OT. 

However, when you consider all aspects of the game, and take into consideration ball handling, passing, shooting from the field, shooting from the line, and scoring, as well as rebounding, its plainly evident that Derek Raridon is the better overall player and thus merits higher placement than Mr. Schultze. I think most people would agree with this assessment.

Consider also Titan Q's addendum to his original post in which he listed 3 other players he felt were as deserving of 3rd team honors as Schultze, and, I believe, indicated he was giving the nod to Spencer primarily due to his being a senior.

On top of everything AO has written, enough of the CCIW coaches thought Raridon was a 1st teamer also! 

[augie_superfan]

Concordia's SOS is 0.487....the theory on the regional rankings thing is the same as why there are no regionally ranked results in Week #1.  It doesn't really make sense but I guess Augie wasn't officially "ranked" until the entire 8 teams were set in order, thus then NCC was also offically set.

I think the "results vs. regionally ranked" metric itself is stupid but I guess it's what we have.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The problem is that for this week's rankings, Augie was not previouly ranked so NCC doesn't yet get those 2 games.  They are still 2-2 vs. regionally ranked opponents.

That makes no sense at all. Why should the committee put North Central's wins over Augie on hold for a week when it has already decided to put Augie into the Midwest Region ranking this week? That's just a cockeyed way of doing things.

Their SOS droppd down to 0.501 which is a decent drop from the 0.525 (I think) that they had last week.  In the common opponents, Concrdia (wis.) went 3-1 while NCC went 1-2.  That was probably the tiebreaker beteen those two teams.

Both good points. What is Concordia (WI)'s SOS right now?

Gregory - you can't count a team's results against a team if they aren't ranked already. Now they are ranked... now you can count them... it is like the first regionally rankings... there are no regionally ranked opponents to have results against for Week 1... so if Augie was never regionally ranked until now, technically those games only count as head-to-head match-ups... and clearly that wasn't enough for NCC to go in above Augie this week.