MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[augie_superfan]

Looks like Lake Forest lost to Carroll 77-70 tonight.  That could be bad for IWU if they still had any hope of a Pool C.

[Titan Q]

I am going to ask the following simply because it has been in the back of my mind for awhile: what makes the CCIW so special that a conference tournament is such a bad idea?

I think you are misrepresenting the discussion, Dave -- or at least the points many of us have debated over the years.

For me, this is very simply a philosophical debate around two points:

1) Whether a conference (any conference) should give its AQ to the team that has won a long, grueling regular season vs the team that wins a couple games over a weekend.  Obviously I have always felt the former makes more sense.

2) Whether it is better - in terms of putting its teams in the best position to get into the NCAA tournament - for a conference (any conference) to just go with the UAA model, and former CCIW model, of not playing a conference tournament, and not hurting in-region winning % in the tournament.  Again, obviously I have consistently been in favor of the current UAA model.

Remember, this is not Division I - there is really no money to be made via a conference tournament.  So I think it is very appropriate for D3 fans to debate this point.  When the CCIW approved the conference tournament concept, the commissioner specifically said the reason was to put CCIW teams in better position to make the tournament.  Many of us feel that the odds are that this is not an accurate assessment based on how the selection process works.  I think it is a good debate, and one CCIW fans (or fans of any league) should be able to have without the insinuations you are making.

The discussion happens to take place often here on the CCIW message board, where there are several passionate and opinionated contributors, and where the volume of posters in general is very high.  But that does not mean this debate is specific to the CCIW, or that anyone here thinks the CCIW is "special" or better than any of the other strong D3 leagues.  I think your points, honestly, are a little unfair.

As to what Coach Schauer meant last night (about his opinions of the conference tournament concept at Gordon vs Wheaton), you had a chance to ask him...but did not for whatever reason.  I think it's also a little unfair to speculate as to what he meant when you did not just ask him.  There are a lot of ways that what he said can be interpreted - you chose not to pursue that question. 

[Titan Q]

Wheaton 69
IWU 56

Not much analysis needed on this one really.  Wheaton just got off to such a great start shooting the basketball, and IWU such a poor start, that the hole was just too deep for the Titans.  The Thunder really came out of the gate strong - they were incredible throughout most of the 1st half.

Wheaton is a very good team and IWU just did not play well enough tonight to be a good team.

[Titan Q]

Looks like Lake Forest lost to Carroll 77-70 tonight.  That could be bad for IWU if they still had any hope of a Pool C.

Yes, that makes a tough night for IWU even tougher.  The bubble probably burst for the Titans tonight.

[Titan Q]

... In the words of John Rambo, same rules for everybody!

My appreciation for the John Rambo quote aside, I disagree with this statement, Point.   Each conference gets to decide how to award its AQ (Pool A bid).  Until 6 years ago, the CCIW chose to not have a conference tournament...and then obviously switched course.   

I just don't think the statement "same rules for everybody" applies because it truly is a decision each league gets to make.  And that is why I think the debate is a fair one.

[unanimous22]

IWU did not look like a team ready to take down playoff caliber teams.

[TitansIWU]

Disappointing, but not completely unexpected.

Oh well.

Good luck to the rest of the teams, the rest of the way, how ever far that may be!

[sac]

I'm having no trouble with the video from NCC but is anyone else having trouble with the livestats loading?

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

TitanQ - I did ask him... I asked why he had different opinions on conference tournaments from the CCIW point of view and from the Gordon point of view... that was my follow up question.

[John Gleich]

... In the words of John Rambo, same rules for everybody!

My appreciation for the John Rambo quote aside, I disagree with this statement, Point.   Each conference gets to decide how to award its AQ (Pool A bid).  Until 6 years ago, the CCIW chose to not have a conference tournament...and then obviously switched course.   

I just don't think the statement "same rules for everybody" applies because it truly is a decision each league gets to make.  And that is why I think the debate is a fair one.

It's a competitive advantage.  Practically speaking, yes, conferences could do away with their conferences tournament... but it just isn't going to happen because it's simply "not how it's done."  It isn't a rule... but it might as well be.

I see this as being similar to the redshirting question.  The argument was that redshirting gave certain programs/conferences a competitive advantage.  It's clear that not playing in a conference tournament gives an advantage over every other conference (except the UAA) in the country.  Yet strangely, the conference tournament is a conference-by-conference decision... but redshirting was not.

Any conference or school could have redshirted... but it wasn't going to happen in many situations.


I'm not trying to rehash that old argument... but I do see similarities in the discussions.

I find the debate to be an interesting one... but I guess I'm not sure why it's in the hands of the conference.

[USee]

TitanQ - I did ask him... I asked why he had different opinions on conference tournaments from the CCIW point of view and from the Gordon point of view... that was my follow up question.

ooooh...........drumroll..........................and his answer? Or do we have to tune in to next week's Hoopsville to find out? The suspense is killing me.

[USee]

I find the debate to be an interesting one... but I guess I'm not sure why it's in the hands of the conference.

I'm not sure why the home team wears white and the visitor's dark in basketball but the reverse is true in football. Nor do i understand why the Dallas Cowboys wear White at home and away. What I do know is that it is the home school's/Team's choice. Not sure why the application is different in different sports/leagues, but it is.

I am also not sure how that is relevant to your point, but it is what came to my mind after I read it.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Just a quick thought... if two or more teams finished tied for the top of the conference with no tournament... the decision on who is the conference winner comes down to tie-breakers. At least with a tournament the student-athletes are given the chance to win the AQ on the floor... not via a tiebreaker.

The CCIW decided years ago to move forward with a conference tournament... but ever since then the annual conversation has surrounded around why this is a lousy idea. Does anyone have any sense the conference is going to change their minds? Then why is it still discussed?

Also, having been a student-athlete myself, I enjoyed the fact that no matter how the team did in the regular season, we had a chance to compete for a title in a tournament. It gave the season a sense of an end... and something we were working towards. Just my two cents.

[USee]

Does anyone have any sense the conference is going to change their minds? Then why is it still discussed?

Because this is a message board? What else should we be talking about? I guess I found it interesting that if we didn't have a conference tournament we may have 3 teams in the dance. With a tournament, we may get only 1. On the CCIW board, that seems like a relevant topic.

I suppose we could talk about what if we didn't play the season, then we wouldn't have anyone in the tourney? Or we could discuss Grey G's latest tirade (stay tuned for that discussion), Sager's internet struggles with NPU home games, how Wheaton lost by 1 @Hope this year, errr, I mean @Calvin. We could stick to other immutable topics like why IWU uses such awful green uniforms or why Wheaton has a mascot that can't be visually depicted. It may be interesting to explore the upper social mobility of the antarctic penguin.

Heck, it seems to me like this is a message board and we should be able to chat about anything.

[sac]

Does anyone have any sense the conference is going to change their minds? Then why is it still discussed?

Because this is a message board? What else should we be talking about? I guess I found it interesting that if we didn't have a conference tournament we may have 3 teams in the dance. With a tournament, we may get only 1. On the CCIW board, that seems like a relevant topic.

I believe the CCIW has also had a couple teams make the tournament that maybe wouldn't have as a direct result of having the tournament.  The extra in-region game, game vs regionally ranked, and boost to SOS have all helped a CCIW get in.   IWU and Wheaton in recent season.