MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

likely the official knockout blow for IWU...Whitewater drops the WIAC championship game.

38, the WIAC final was a Pool C non-factor.  Either River Falls or Whitewater was a lock. 

[Titan Q]

There is no way, after the CCIW lost so many key games out of conference, that we'll get three teams in. I just don't see it. Good to see no one lost their green colored glasses while I was gone. Who is the Midwest chair right now?

Fortunately for IWU, they only evaluate individual team performance in the non-conference, April...not conferences as a whole.

As far as IWU goes, the Titans have a few very significant non-conference wins (in terms of the official "primary" and "secondary" criteria):

* Wash U (Midwest #1)
* Staten Island (Atlantic #1)
* Bethany (Great Lakes #5)

The Titans went 9-2 in the non-conference.  They lost a bad game @ Ripon.  The other loss was at West #1 UW-Whitewater. 
IWU is the only team in the country with wins over 2 (of the 8) regional #1 teams, and the only team to have played 3 regional #1 teams. 

IWU's non-conference results are part of the reason the Titans are very much in the mix at the end of the bubble.  They might get in, they might get left out...but they're in the mix.

[John Gleich]

There is no way, after the CCIW lost so many key games out of conference, that we'll get three teams in. I just don't see it. Good to see no one lost their green colored glasses while I was gone. Who is the Midwest chair right now?

Fortunately for IWU, they only evaluate individual team performance in the non-conference, April...not conferences as a whole.

It certainly isn't one of the criteria...  but you put together some great information earlier in the year in terms of teams' chances of getting a bid... based off of the individual team performance AND the conference non-con performance (which leads to a higher or lower SOS).

IWU could have certainly helped their case if they had won a few more games (or definitely two more, in the conference tournament) but their SOS would have been higher and thus their chances for a bid even better if the CCIW as a whole hadn't had the worst collective year since (GS can fill in the year here...).

[Titan Q]

It certainly isn't one of the criteria...  but you put together some great information earlier in the year in terms of teams' chances of getting a bid... based off of the individual team performance AND the conference non-con performance (which leads to a higher or lower SOS).

This is something I kept track of in the non-conference season in 2010-11...is this what you are referring to, PS?

Final CCIW in-region report...

(records below are in-region only...not overall)

Augustana (10-0)
11/16, @ Simpson  W
11/22, vs Washington U W
11/27, vs Anderson  W
12/1, @ Monmouth  W
12/11, vs Buena Vista  W
12/15, vs UW-Whitewater  W
12/20, @ MacMurray  W
12/29, vs UW-Stout, at St. Norbert  W
12/30, @ St. Norbert  W
1/2, vs Chicago   W

Out of region:
12/8, vs St. Ambrose  W

Carthage (2-2)
11/19, vs Bethany Lutheran  W
11/24, vs Whitworth (in Hawaii) L
11/26, vs Pacific (in Hawaii)  W
1/2, @ Transylvania L

Out of region:
11/16, vs Calumet-St. Joseph  W 
11/20, vs John Carroll  L
12/3 vs Hope  W
12/4, vs Calvin  W
12/7, vs Silver Lake  W
12/11, vs Albion  L
12/12, vs Cardinal Stritch  W

Elmhurst (5-6)
11/16, @ Cornell  L
11/20, vs Hamline L
11/23, @ St. Norbert  L
12/1, @ Olivet  L
12/5, @ Westminster (Mo)  W
12/9, vs Kalamazoo  W
12/11, vs Loras  W
12/20, vs Aurora, in Las Vegas  L
12/21, vs UW-Oshkosh, in Las Vegas  W
12/29, vs DePauw  W
12/30, vs Benedictine  L

Illinois Wesleyan (8-2)
11/15, @ Benedictine  W
11/19, vs Aurora  W
11/20, vs Ripon  W
11/23, @ Monmouth  W
11/27, vs Dominican W
11/29, @ Webster  W
12/4, vs Chicago L
12/11, vs MacMurray  W
12/18, @ Washington U L
12/30, @ Cal Lutheran  W

Out of region:

12/29, vs Gettysburg, at Cal Lutheran  W

Millikin (0-6)
11/19, vs Nebraska Wesleyan  L
11/23, vs Franklin L
11/28, @ Rose-Hulman L
12/4, @ Aurora  L
12/20, @ Transyvania L
12/29, vs St. Mary's (MN), at Ill College  L


Out of region:
12/1, vs Robert Morris-Springfield  W
12/18, @ Adrian  L
12/21, vs Piedmont (GA),  L
12/30, vs Clarke at Illinois College  L

North Central (3-5)
11/19, vs Bluffton L
11/20 vs Edgewood  L
11/23, vs Aurora  L
11/27, @ Illinois College  L
11/28, @ Manchester W
12/7, vs Lake Forest  W
12/22, @ Benedictine L
12/27, @ Rockford  W

Out of region:
12/1, vs Albion  W
12/17, @ Hawaii-Hilo  L
12/30, @ Adrian  L

North Park (5-4)
11/17, vs Concordia  L
11/23, vs Edgewood  W
11/27, @ Fontbonne  W
11/30, @ Carroll W
12/4, vs Trine L
12/11, @ Spalding  W
12/13, vs Milwaukee Engineering  W
12/19, @ Coe  L
12/20, @ Loras  L

Out of region:
12/28, vs Williams, at Salem State  L
12/29, vs Regis, at Salem State  W

Wheaton (4-2)
11/16, @ Manchester  L
11/19, vs UW-Whitewater  W
11,23, vs Loras  W
12/1, @ Chicago  W
12/4, vs Hope L
12/11, vs Washington U  W

Out of region:
11/19, vs Covenant  W
12/3, vs Calvin  W
12/9, vs Trinity Intl  W
12/30, vs Messiah, in Phoenix  W
12/31, vs Husson, in Phoenix  W


CCIW non-conference totals (88 games)
In-region games: 64 (73%)
Out-of-region games: 24 (27%)


Final CCIW in-region, non-conference record
37-27 (.578)

[Titan Q]

IWU could have certainly helped their case if they had won a few more games (or definitely two more, in the conference tournament) but their SOS would have been higher and thus their chances for a bid even better if the CCIW as a whole hadn't had the worst collective year since (GS can fill in the year here...).

The CCIW's bottom half was terrible this year in the non-conference - no question about it.

But note, Wheaton has an SOS of .570 right now, which is outstanding.

[sac]

IWU could have certainly helped their case if they had won a few more games (or definitely two more, in the conference tournament) but their SOS would have been higher and thus their chances for a bid even better if the CCIW as a whole hadn't had the worst collective year since (GS can fill in the year here...).

The CCIW's bottom half was terrible this year in the non-conference - no question about it.

But note, Wheaton has an SOS of .570 right now, which is outstanding.

Out of curiosity what is their SOS without playing Hope?  (I think Wheaton gets a 17-0 for that game)

[AndOne]

Had an interesting discussion regarding tournament seating with a Wheaton fan prior to last night's championship game.
Seeing me resplendent in Cardinal attire, and evidently believing I had some influence with regard to seating apportionment, he expressed to me his indignation that the entire section of the black folding chairs on the risers were being occupied by NCC fans. I advised this gentleman, who turned out to be the dad of one of the Wheaton players, that tournament seating is determined by the conference and not by the host institution, and that the section in question went to the higher seed. He indicated in that case, in the interest of "fairness" and hospitality, he felt NCC should voluntarily give up half of the section. I reminded him that Friday evening Wheaton, as the higher seed, had the entire section in question and inquired if he had invited any Wesleyan fans to join him. I guess those guys from Wilmette are used to getting what they want, 

AndOne:  You provided the perfect answer to the dad of one of the players of the #2-seeded team.  My question is:  Is your reference to "Wilmette" an implication of which player is the son of the dad in question?  Wheaton has one player -- and  an awfully good one at that -- from Wilmette on its roster.  Or is "Wilmette" just a reference to the people who think they deserve better treatment than others?  Just wondering.

rouser---

Thank you.
In response to your questions, let me say this...........
1. My post was in no way, shape, or form meant as an implication of anything whatsoever negative relative to any PLAYER.
2. No, it was specific to the subject.

[AndOne]

There is no way, after the CCIW lost so many key games out of conference, that we'll get three teams in. I just don't see it. Good to see no one lost their green colored glasses while I was gone. Who is the Midwest chair right now?

Fortunately for IWU, they only evaluate individual team performance in the non-conference, April...not conferences as a whole.

As far as IWU goes, the Titans have a few very significant non-conference wins (in terms of the official "primary" and "secondary" criteria):

* Wash U (Midwest #1)
* Staten Island (Atlantic #1)
* Bethany (Great Lakes #5)

The Titans went 9-2 in the non-conference.  They lost a bad game @ Ripon.  The other loss was at West #1 UW-Whitewater. 
IWU is the only team in the country with wins over 2 (of the 8) regional #1 teams, and the only team to have played 3 regional #1 teams. 

IWU's non-conference results are part of the reason the Titans are very much in the mix at the end of the bubble.  They might get in, they might get left out...but they're in the mix.

Is there any possibility of stating in terms of a percentage what you believe the Titans chances to be? 5%, 10, 15?

[Titan Q]

Is there any possibility of stating in terms of a percentage what you believe the Titans chances to be? 5%, 10, 15?

If the Midwest committee puts IWU ahead of Lake Forest, I think the Titans have about a 50% chance of getting in right at the end (spots 18/19) - I like IWU's chances quite a bit in that scenario (they'd be on the board for several rounds).  If the Midwest committee puts Lake Forest ahead of IWU, I think there is about a 10% chance - in this scenario I think IWU might end up team #20.

[Titan Q]

Pat Coleman just stated on Hoopsville that he believes the team that ends up ranked higher in the Midwest between Lake Forest and IWU will get in, and that the lower of the two will not. 

I agree that the "cut line" seems to be right at the point between IWU and Lake Forest.

[diehardfan]

diehard- the men's final regional rankings will be revealed monday...the women's committee has so far decided not to follow suit

Thanks!

There is no way, after the CCIW lost so many key games out of conference, that we'll get three teams in. I just don't see it. Good to see no one lost their green colored glasses while I was gone. Who is the Midwest chair right now?

Fortunately for IWU, they only evaluate individual team performance in the non-conference, April...not conferences as a whole.

It certainly isn't one of the criteria...  but you put together some great information earlier in the year in terms of teams' chances of getting a bid... based off of the individual team performance AND the conference non-con performance (which leads to a higher or lower SOS).

IWU could have certainly helped their case if they had won a few more games (or definitely two more, in the conference tournament) but their SOS would have been higher and thus their chances for a bid even better if the CCIW as a whole hadn't had the worst collective year since (GS can fill in the year here...).

This was more or less my point, thanks.

IWU could have certainly helped their case if they had won a few more games (or definitely two more, in the conference tournament) but their SOS would have been higher and thus their chances for a bid even better if the CCIW as a whole hadn't had the worst collective year since (GS can fill in the year here...).

The CCIW's bottom half was terrible this year in the non-conference - no question about it.

But note, Wheaton has an SOS of .570 right now, which is outstanding.

Actually, isn't that NCC's main obstacle right now to being ranked in the Top 25, regionally, and hosting a playoff site? They weren't exactly in the bottom half. Wheaton's SoS is largely helped by playing a lot of non-conference teams with better records, and also playing them away or at neutral sites. Wheaton is actually the only team in the CCIW to lose no home games all season.

[John Gleich]

It certainly isn't one of the criteria...  but you put together some great information earlier in the year in terms of teams' chances of getting a bid... based off of the individual team performance AND the conference non-con performance (which leads to a higher or lower SOS).

This is something I kept track of in the non-conference season in 2010-11...is this what you are referring to, PS?

Actually, I think I'm confusing it with another of your posts that I found pretty enlightening... you looked at each of the teams based on their non-con results and projected what they would need to do in the conference to get a bid... This was based on their individual non-conference records.

I think I inferred from that post that, if the over-all conference had done better in the non-con, then the effect of the conference games on the strength of schedule would have been greater.  Every conference team would have a better winning percentage, so the OWP (and OOWP) would be higher.

The non-con portion of the schedule is about 36% of the entire schedule... so if everyone in the conference had a 5% better winning percentage, this would filter down to a better SOS.

[Mr. Ypsi]

IF Lake Forest remains above IWU (all-in-all, I don't think they should), I plan to blame it on two factors:

1.  Millikin!   (Being of the era where that was THE hated rival of the Titans, OWP is the fault of having to play a 1-24 team twice; and OOWP is the fault of 13 opponents having to play Millikin twice!)

2.  SOS on in-region games only.  Except as a secondary criterion, IWU gets no credit for beating (ON THE ROAD) Bethany and Staten Island, both Pool A winners.

As it is, IWU's only HUGE advantage over LF is ELEVEN games against regionally ranked opponents (9 in-region, plus Bethany and CSI) to exactly ONE by LF.  If not for the above, the advantage in SOS would also be HUGE!

Oh well, it is what it is.  I'm simultaneously dubious and cautiously optimistic.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Pat Coleman just stated on Hoopsville that he believes the team that ends up ranked higher in the Midwest between Lake Forest and IWU will get in, and that the lower of the two will not. 

I agree that the "cut line" seems to be right at the point between IWU and Lake Forest.

No love, I said that first, I thought!

[spencer1988]

I am going to predict that IWU gets in over Lake Forest.  Lake Forest has no one to blame but themselves.  You can't be blamed for your conference being less than challenging but you can determine your non conference games and they sure haven't pushed themselves.