MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[NCF]

BTW, my apologies that I haven't quite mastered the quote thingy.  I haven't quite grasped how to make it indicate the author and time of the post being quoted.

Don't worry you'll figure out a lot of things if you stay on here long enough:)

yeah - like do NOT mess with HoFer

Well, my user number is 1005, so I've a fly on the wall for a while.  I'm well aware of what happens when you poke the bears.

So am I:)

[devildog29]

Wild day at the Ypsi household.  Son #2 woke up this morning complaining one of his testicles was on fire.  Checked himself into the emergency room (his GF went with him).  Mrs. Y went shortly thereafter.  After three or four hours, got word he was having emergency surgery for a 'twisted testicle'.  Got frantic after no word for three more hours (didn't know Mrs. Y's cell phone was dead, so she took mine!); all is now OK.  (The doctors say is was a genetic problem - glad I bit my tongue on jokes about GF's overly wild sex! )

GF had 'dumped' son#2 just a few days earlier, but (as his best friend, who is dating GF's roommate, reported) things were not really that bad.  She certainly showed her devotion today, staying at the hospital the entire time!  I've previously described her as likely DiL-#2; I think I was right!  I think she's a keeper (though perhaps high-maintainence some of the time).

Mrs. Y just came and went - off to get prescriptions.  Son #2 and GF expected shortly.

In all my years of reading the board, this is the first post I can remember about testicles on fire.

Am I the only one that was reminded of this from these comments?

[iwumichigander]

Wild day at the Ypsi household.  Son #2 woke up this morning complaining one of his testicles was on fire.  Checked himself into the emergency room (his GF went with him).  Mrs. Y went shortly thereafter.  After three or four hours, got word he was having emergency surgery for a 'twisted testicle'.  Got frantic after no word for three more hours (didn't know Mrs. Y's cell phone was dead, so she took mine!); all is now OK.  (The doctors say is was a genetic problem - glad I bit my tongue on jokes about GF's overly wild sex! )

GF had 'dumped' son#2 just a few days earlier, but (as his best friend, who is dating GF's roommate, reported) things were not really that bad.  She certainly showed her devotion today, staying at the hospital the entire time!  I've previously described her as likely DiL-#2; I think I was right!  I think she's a keeper (though perhaps high-maintainence some of the time).

Mrs. Y just came and went - off to get prescriptions.  Son #2 and GF expected shortly.

Based on your last line, Mrs Y may wish you bit your tongue a 2nd time!!!!   

As long as she doesn't read the boards, he's safe,otherwise he'll be sleeping on the couch for awhile:)

Better hope son #2 doesn't read the boards either

[Gregory Sager]

First of all, did Millikin and North Park leave the league prior to 2011-12? No, they didn't. They have to be considered along with the other six teams as part of the CCIW's resume this past season, whether people like it or not. They make up a full one-quarter of the league! The guilt by association is built right into this conversation, because that's what a league is ... an association. Heck, some leagues even use the word "association" in their name (hat tip to our friends from the UAA, the MIAA, and the SAA here ).

So let's add one of those other conferences to the conversation for the sake of argument.  Let's say, hypothetically, that the MIAA teams performed exactly at their average historical level this past season in non-conference play.  (Whether they actually did or not is irrelevant for this example.)  If I were to argue that "The CCIW and MIAA are down this year", and show their aggregate winning percentage relative to where they've been in the past, that statement would appear to be valid, because, yes, the two leagues together would show below their norms.  And at a very, very macro level, they would be.  But it would be a really misleading assessment of the actual results because the MIAA would actually be just fine, thankyouverymuch.

That's exactly what you're suggesting we should do -- paint a macro-level conclusion where a micro-level assessment would be a much more accurate reading of the numbers.

Oh, come on. Are you serious with this? You're going to combine two leagues in order to prove your point? That's just plain silly.

The CCIW is a discrete unit. It's eight teams, playing each other in a double round-robin over an exclusive two-month period, with a league tournament tacked on to the end and no set schedule whatsoever that involves another league (aside from the statistically trifling CCIW/MIAA Challenge, which involves all of four games among the 88 played in regular-season non-con action by CCIW teams). You can't simply add in another league's numbers, willy-nilly, and expect it to mean something. Seeing as how Mike Krizman isn't going to set up a new "Aggregate CCIW and MIAA winning percentage" category for men's basketball statistics on www.cciw.org, your point is completely invalid.

As for this:

Second, you can't pin this all on MU and NPU. By your own numbers in your previous posts, you demonstrated that other slots in the CCIW standings were down this year by comparison to the past dozen or so CCIW seasons.

That's not quite what the numbers I posted show.  Of the past dozen years, the #2 through #6 slots performed this year pretty much right on average.  There were six seasons where those slots performed better, and five seasons in which they performed worse.  The cumulative record of #2 through #6 this year was 47-20 (.701).  The twelve-year average winning percentage is .712.  Had there been one more win in 2011-12 from these teams, the cumulative record would stand at 48-19, and we'd be looking at .716.  So unless you are seriously arguing that being less than one game below average means these five teams were down, I'm not sure what you're basing this suggestion on.

Our champion, North Central, was one team that you singled out in particular. Carthage and Elmhurst, as well, had atypically down years for fifth- or sixth-place CCIW teams, as both went a mere 6-5 in non-con play. This wasn't just a case of the bottom not doing well, as you yourself demonstrated.

I did single out North Central, and their non-conference record was underwhelming.  I also wrote this:

How should North Central's slow start be factored in?  10-6 is no great shakes, but is it reasonable to mark the conference down for the performance of a sweet sixteen team?

This is where I reconcile the quantitative numbers with the qualitative judgements.  I *don't* think that it is a reasonable conclusion to hold up a sweet sixteen team as evidence that the conference is down.  Instead, I attribute their record to extenuating circumstances, as you suggested over on the NCAC board after the first weekend of the tournament:

In November and December NCC was plagued by a string of injuries that adversely impacted the depth-challenged Cardinals.

#5 and #6 have an aggregate out-of-conference winning percentage of .624 (164-99) in the era I looked at.  #5 teams have averaged roughly 6.5 wins and 4.5 losses, while #6 has been just shy of 7-4.  Carthage and Elmhurst were each off those marks by less than one game.  I do not view that as atypical.

Yes, I did identify that NCC's injuries contributed to the pre-conference woes of the Cardinals. But, as I and others have said on here a million times, you play with what you have. Those losses count just as much as the losses that the Cards suffered when they were at full strength. We're not talking about the why of the CCIW's being down (and, in this case, the micro aspect of that regarding the below-par non-con performance of the #1 team), we're simply talking about the statistical results. Extenuating circumstances or not, the Cards did finish well underneath CCIW norms in terms of non-con record.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

article in the daily herald this morning that Brian Nelms, guard from Rolling Meadows HS (which I can see from my house) will attend Illinois Wesleyan.

While an excellent offensive talent - he'll have to learn how to play man to man defense in college, cause the Mustangs exclusively play zone.

dgp

[TitansIWU]

Based on the posts, I apparently crossed the TMI line - sorry!

I consider the regulars on CCIW Chat (as I will always call it!) to be 'family'.  I greatly appreciate the updates on family matters from such posters (and newer posters are certainly welcome to join 'the family').  It was a traumatic day that turned out well, but apparently I went too far - again, sorry.

As a somewhat new poster, I would like to offer an update on my family:

As of 12:40 CST, there are no testicle fires to report, not even any smoldering.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yesterday was a VERY stressful day.  I needed to vent, but this was not the appropriate place to do so.  Now that things have calmed down, I realize that my post was totally inappropriate.  I have deleted the post, and appeal to the good folks on here to delete any quotations of it.

Thank you, and, again, my apologies.

[NCF]

Yesterday was a VERY stressful day.  I needed to vent, but this was not the appropriate place to do so.  Now that things have calmed down, I realize that my post was totally inappropriate.  I have deleted the post, and appeal to the good folks on here to delete any quotations of it.

Thank you, and, again, my apologies.

Hey most of us are not prudes and it is OK to vent. Your post came out of nowhere  and took me (and others) completely by surprise. It did,however, provide some relief from the CCIW was down this year banter.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Yesterday was a VERY stressful day.  I needed to vent, but this was not the appropriate place to do so.  Now that things have calmed down, I realize that my post was totally inappropriate.  I have deleted the post, and appeal to the good folks on here to delete any quotations of it.

Thank you, and, again, my apologies.

Hey most of us are not prudes and it is OK to vent. Your post came out of nowhere  and took me (and others) completely by surprise. It did,however, provide some relief from the CCIW was down this year banter.

was the CCIW down this year?

I hadn't heard.

[Titan Q]

article in the daily herald this morning that Brian Nelms, guard from Rolling Meadows HS (which I can see from my house) will attend Illinois Wesleyan.

While an excellent offensive talent - he'll have to learn how to play man to man defense in college, cause the Mustangs exclusively play zone.

dgp

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20120323/sports/703239615/

JR year highlights...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH9vibe6_GY


4.6/5.0 GPA, 31 ACT...impressive.

[kiko]

Oh, come on. Are you serious with this? You're going to combine two leagues in order to prove your point? That's just plain silly.

You're right -- combining two leagues together for an analysis like this would be silly.  That's precisely my point.  So is combining eight teams together to draw a conclusion when the answer lies with two of them.   And yes, the CCIW is a discreet unit, blah blah blah, but so is Millikin.  And so is North Park.   And therein lies your answer.

(I'm reasonably certain that Mike Krizman lists details on these schools' individual performance on the conference website.  )

Yes, I did identify that NCC's injuries contributed to the pre-conference woes of the Cardinals. But, as I and others have said on here a million times, you play with what you have. Those losses count just as much as the losses that the Cards suffered when they were at full strength. We're not talking about the why of the CCIW's being down (and, in this case, the micro aspect of that regarding the below-par non-con performance of the #1 team), we're simply talking about the statistical results. Extenuating circumstances or not, the Cards did finish well underneath CCIW norms in terms of non-con record.

You may not be talking about the why, but, with all due respect, there are blindingly obvious extenuating circumstances that explain the Cards' subpar start, and these circumstances suggest that the record alone is not the best indicator of this team's relative strength.  To ignore these other factors is willfully obtuse.  You are seriously suggesting that a sweet sixteen team is evidence that the conference is down because they lost a few game while at less than full strength?  Then I guess from your perspective .590 is the only acceptable metric of conference strength.  I prefer to live over here in multivariate-ville.


I suspect this is getting tiresome when we could be talking about testicles and other twisted tales.  Neither one of us is going to accept the other's POV, so I'm done beating this horse.

[iwu70]

Ypsi, you're cool with me.  Just de-stress and get everyone in the family healthy.

Nelms looks like a great find for Coach Rose and the Titans.  We'll clearly need some more help at the PG and in the trey-shooting realm this coming year.  Hope he's an immediate impact guy.

IWU70

[NCF]

Ypsi, you're cool with me.  Just de-stress and get everyone in the family healthy.

Nelms looks like a great find for Coach Rose and the Titans.  We'll clearly need some more help at the PG and in the trey-shooting realm this coming year.  Hope he's an immediate impact guy.

IWU70

Everyone has days like his at some point. Glad to hear his son is feeling better.

[NCF]

Oh, come on. Are you serious with this? You're going to combine two leagues in order to prove your point? That's just plain silly.

You're right -- combining two leagues together for an analysis like this would be silly.  That's precisely my point.  So is combining eight teams together to draw a conclusion when the answer lies with two of them.   And yes, the CCIW is a discreet unit, blah blah blah, but so is Millikin.  And so is North Park.   And therein lies your answer.

(I'm reasonably certain that Mike Krizman lists details on these schools' individual performance on the conference website.  )

Yes, I did identify that NCC's injuries contributed to the pre-conference woes of the Cardinals. But, as I and others have said on here a million times, you play with what you have. Those losses count just as much as the losses that the Cards suffered when they were at full strength. We're not talking about the why of the CCIW's being down (and, in this case, the micro aspect of that regarding the below-par non-con performance of the #1 team), we're simply talking about the statistical results. Extenuating circumstances or not, the Cards did finish well underneath CCIW norms in terms of non-con record.

You may not be talking about the why, but, with all due respect, there are blindingly obvious extenuating circumstances that explain the Cards' subpar start, and these circumstances suggest that the record alone is not the best indicator of this team's relative strength.  To ignore these other factors is willfully obtuse.  You are seriously suggesting that a sweet sixteen team is evidence that the conference is down because they lost a few game while at less than full strength?  Then I guess from your perspective .590 is the only acceptable metric of conference strength.  I prefer to live over here in multivariate-ville.


I suspect this is getting tiresome when we could be talking about testicles and other twisted tales.  Neither one of us is going to accept the other's POV, so I'm done beating this horse.

Your last sentence is correct. Neither one of you will agree with the other, but so what? It's a message board and you're aallowed to express oposing viewpoints in a respectfull manner.The testicle story was just a bonus.

[titanhammer]

article in the daily herald this morning that Brian Nelms, guard from Rolling Meadows HS (which I can see from my house) will attend Illinois Wesleyan.

While an excellent offensive talent - he'll have to learn how to play man to man defense in college, cause the Mustangs exclusively play zone.

dgp

Speaking from experience, not a huge jump from zone to man defense.