MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[markerickson]

Sarcasm does not translate well in discussion boards and email, I've experienced.

[NCF]

Sarcasm does not translate well in discussion boards and email, I've experienced.

True, if you have not read enough of the posts of the sarcastic poster. But usually one can tell when a post is intended to be sarcastic humor-well, most of the time.

[AndOne]

article in the daily herald this morning that Brian Nelms, guard from Rolling Meadows HS (which I can see from my house) will attend Illinois Wesleyan.

While an excellent offensive talent - he'll have to learn how to play man to man defense in college, cause the Mustangs exclusively play zone.

dgp

Speaking from experience, not a huge jump from zone to man defense.

Titanhammer---

Not a huge jump  
Even if the kid had experience in playing man to man D, he would have a huge jump to make just moving from high school to college level basketball. Without any experience with man to man, he will be at a tremendous disadvantage at least half the time he is on the floor. I think most coaches today will insist that you at least have a clue when your team is on the defensive end of the floor.
In what sports "experience" have you not found inexperience to be a major step to overcome?
Not having any experience playing man to  man defense, a player would initially have no clue in even the basics of the defensive game. Offensive stars coming out of high school are a dime a dozen. A skilled offensive player who is only better than average on defense has a tremendous advantage over a poor defender. And my "experience" is that a skilled offensive player who has much to learn on defense, often suffers a loss in the level of his offensive production as he expends both a lot of physical AND mental energy in trying to absorb his new defensive assignments.
Coming into college with no experience in playing man defense, a player would have no clue in such basic defensive principles as defensive stance, defensive slides, ball-you-man, closing out, overplaying you opponent's strong hand,  switching, fighting through and going over or under screens,  jamming the passing lanes, help and recover, playing one or two man removed, helping from the weak side, or any number of other defensive skill sets. Overall, likely a HUGE jump.      
 

[NCF]

article in the daily herald this morning that Brian Nelms, guard from Rolling Meadows HS (which I can see from my house) will attend Illinois Wesleyan.

While an excellent offensive talent - he'll have to learn how to play man to man defense in college, cause the Mustangs exclusively play zone.

dgp

Speaking from experience, not a huge jump from zone to man defense.

Titanhammer---

Not a huge jump  
Even if the kid had experience in playing man to man D, he would have a huge jump to make just moving from high school to college level basketball. Without any experience with man to man, he will be at a tremendous disadvantage at least half the time he is on the floor. I think most coaches today will insist that you at least have a clue when your team is on the defensive end of the floor.
In what sports "experience" have you not found inexperience to be a major step to overcome?
Not having any experience playing man to  man defense, a player would initially have no clue in even the basics of the defensive game. Offensive stars coming out of high school are a dime a dozen. A skilled offensive player who is only better than average on defense has a tremendous advantage over a poor defender. And my "experience" is that a skilled offensive player who has much to learn on defense, often suffers a loss in the level of his offensive production as he expends both a lot of physical AND mental energy in trying to absorb his new defensive assignments.
Coming into college with no experience in playing man defense, a player would have no clue in such basic defensive principles as defensive stance, defensive slides, ball-you-man, closing out, overplaying you opponent's strong hand,  switching, fighting through and going over or under screens,  jamming the passing lanes, help and recover, playing one or two man removed, helping from the weak side, or any number of other defensive skill sets. Overall, likely a HUGE jump.      

Excellent Post.

[und63]

Greg Sager, do you know a Joe Elick who is now a pastor at Roseau Evangelical Covenant Church in Roseau, MN.  He went to seminary at North Park and we were at his church this morning.  An excellent service and sermon, our sister-in-law goes to his church.
I am Larry Irwin.
Thanks.

[titanhammer]

article in the daily herald this morning that Brian Nelms, guard from Rolling Meadows HS (which I can see from my house) will attend Illinois Wesleyan.

While an excellent offensive talent - he'll have to learn how to play man to man defense in college, cause the Mustangs exclusively play zone.

dgp

Speaking from experience, not a huge jump from zone to man defense.

Titanhammer---

Not a huge jump  
Even if the kid had experience in playing man to man D, he would have a huge jump to make just moving from high school to college level basketball. Without any experience with man to man, he will be at a tremendous disadvantage at least half the time he is on the floor. I think most coaches today will insist that you at least have a clue when your team is on the defensive end of the floor.
In what sports "experience" have you not found inexperience to be a major step to overcome?
Not having any experience playing man to  man defense, a player would initially have no clue in even the basics of the defensive game. Offensive stars coming out of high school are a dime a dozen. A skilled offensive player who is only better than average on defense has a tremendous advantage over a poor defender. And my "experience" is that a skilled offensive player who has much to learn on defense, often suffers a loss in the level of his offensive production as he expends both a lot of physical AND mental energy in trying to absorb his new defensive assignments.
Coming into college with no experience in playing man defense, a player would have no clue in such basic defensive principles as defensive stance, defensive slides, ball-you-man, closing out, overplaying you opponent's strong hand,  switching, fighting through and going over or under screens,  jamming the passing lanes, help and recover, playing one or two man removed, helping from the weak side, or any number of other defensive skill sets. Overall, likely a HUGE jump.      

Without spending too much time on this, I'll make a couple of points and be done.  Although the kid may have played exclusively zone in high school (which I also did), I assume he plays pick up games during the summer.  When's the last time you saw kids play zone in a pick up game?  You pick up the nuances with that experience.

Secondly, the jump from high school to college depends a lot on your high school experience and what level you're playing in college.  It would be much more of a jump for a kid from a small class 1A school to the CCIW than it would for a kid from a good 4A school.  The kid from the 1A school may never get challenged in practice or in games during his senior season...where the kid from the good 4A school is challenged every day in practice and probably by a very demanding schedule.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yesterday was a VERY stressful day.  I needed to vent, but this was not the appropriate place to do so.  Now that things have calmed down, I realize that my post was totally inappropriate.  I have deleted the post, and appeal to the good folks on here to delete any quotations of it.

Thank you, and, again, my apologies.

As you can see, I hoped this would just die (which it did, thank you!), but I now also realize I overreacted.  My son worked a full shift at the restaurant tonight, and was told by the owners that he needed a doctor's excuse for Friday.  He said he was really tempted to just pull down his pants and show the stitches on his scrotum, but the principal owner is a 60+ female, so he resisted temptation!   If he is not concerned, I guess I'm not concerned.

Good kid!  Now back to your regular programming.

Which this time of year is pretty random!

[AndOne]

article in the daily herald this morning that Brian Nelms, guard from Rolling Meadows HS (which I can see from my house) will attend Illinois Wesleyan.

While an excellent offensive talent - he'll have to learn how to play man to man defense in college, cause the Mustangs exclusively play zone.

dgp

Speaking from experience, not a huge jump from zone to man defense.

Titanhammer---

Not a huge jump  
Even if the kid had experience in playing man to man D, he would have a huge jump to make just moving from high school to college level basketball. Without any experience with man to man, he will be at a tremendous disadvantage at least half the time he is on the floor. I think most coaches today will insist that you at least have a clue when your team is on the defensive end of the floor.
In what sports "experience" have you not found inexperience to be a major step to overcome?
Not having any experience playing man to  man defense, a player would initially have no clue in even the basics of the defensive game. Offensive stars coming out of high school are a dime a dozen. A skilled offensive player who is only better than average on defense has a tremendous advantage over a poor defender. And my "experience" is that a skilled offensive player who has much to learn on defense, often suffers a loss in the level of his offensive production as he expends both a lot of physical AND mental energy in trying to absorb his new defensive assignments.
Coming into college with no experience in playing man defense, a player would have no clue in such basic defensive principles as defensive stance, defensive slides, ball-you-man, closing out, overplaying you opponent's strong hand,  switching, fighting through and going over or under screens,  jamming the passing lanes, help and recover, playing one or two man removed, helping from the weak side, or any number of other defensive skill sets. Overall, likely a HUGE jump.      

Without spending too much time on this, I'll make a couple of points and be done.  Although the kid may have played exclusively zone in high school (which I also did), I assume he plays pick up games during the summer.  When's the last time you saw kids play zone in a pick up game?  You pick up the nuances with that experience.

Secondly, the jump from high school to college depends a lot on your high school experience and what level you're playing in college.  It would be much more of a jump for a kid from a small class 1A school to the CCIW than it would for a kid from a good 4A school.  The kid from the 1A school may never get challenged in practice or in games during his senior season...where the kid from the good 4A school is challenged every day in practice and probably by a very demanding schedule.

Titan---

* I'll buy one of what you're selling. I agree 100% that its often much tougher for a class 1A or 2A kid to make the jump to college ball at any level, even D3. And, more kids from small schools probably fail to make it at the next level than do kids from bigger high schools. However, there are plenty of success stories stemming from smaller high schools, several right here in the CCIW.
* To answer your question, the last time I saw kids play zone defense in a pick up game was never! However, the last time I saw ANY form of defense played in a pick up game was also NEVER. And, I see a hell of a lot of pick up games. 
* You said the small school HS kid may not be challenged much, either in practice or games whereas "the kid from the good 4A school is challenged every day in practice, and probably by a very demanding schedule." The problem is, your premise was there isn't much of a jump from playing zone defense exclusively in HS to playing man in college. The question then still remains, if "the kid from the good 4A school" only practices against a zone (because thats all his school plays), and only plays a zone when he is on defense, how does that help him, in any way, to learn any of the nuances of playing man to man defense?? The answer is, it doesn't.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'll have to disagree with one part of your post - many pick-up players take great pride in defense.  Me for one (though I gave up playing about a dozen years ago).  Perhaps my simultaneous high and low points was blocking the shot of a 6'5" guy (I'm 5'8") then driving the length of the court and blowing the lay-up!   I had very quick hands - I suspect my steals may have outnumbered my baskets.

Yeah, no zone, but great pride in man-to-man.

[titanhammer]

* To answer your question, the last time I saw kids play zone defense in a pick up game was never! However, the last time I saw ANY form of defense played in a pick up game was also NEVER. And, I see a hell of a lot of pick up games. 
* You said the small school HS kid may not be challenged much, either in practice or games whereas "the kid from the good 4A school is challenged every day in practice, and probably by a very demanding schedule." The problem is, your premise was there isn't much of a jump from playing zone defense exclusively in HS to playing man in college. The question then still remains, if "the kid from the good 4A school" only practices against a zone (because thats all his school plays), and only plays a zone when he is on defense, how does that help him, in any way, to learn any of the nuances of playing man to man defense?? The answer is, it doesn't.

If those kids didn't play any kind of defense in pick up games, then I would guess they didn't come from a program that had much pride...at least in defense, if not winning.

On the zone defense thing...doesn't it matter as to what type of zone?  The zone that Louisville played in the first half against Florida looked just like a man-to-man.  If someone played that zone, wouldn't they know most of the man to man principles?

[A Lover of the Game]

I don't know how basketball junkies (except Mr. Sager) cannot watch the other March Madness. This OSU/Cincy game is good.

Oh, I'm right there with ya! That was indeed a good game. There's been some really good "other March Madness" games going on, so much so that I haven't watched very many pro-games.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Greg Sager, do you know a Joe Elick who is now a pastor at Roseau Evangelical Covenant Church in Roseau, MN.  He went to seminary at North Park and we were at his church this morning.  An excellent service and sermon, our sister-in-law goes to his church.
I am Larry Irwin.
Thanks.

+K for using "Covenant Church" in a post 

[NCF]

Yesterday was a VERY stressful day.  I needed to vent, but this was not the appropriate place to do so.  Now that things have calmed down, I realize that my post was totally inappropriate.  I have deleted the post, and appeal to the good folks on here to delete any quotations of it.

Thank you, and, again, my apologies.

As you can see, I hoped this would just die (which it did, thank you!), but I now also realize I overreacted.  My son worked a full shift at the restaurant tonight, and was told by the owners that he needed a doctor's excuse for Friday.  He said he was really tempted to just pull down his pants and show the stitches on his scrotum, but the principal owner is a 60+ female, so he resisted temptation!   If he is not concerned, I guess I'm not concerned.

Good kid!  Now back to your regular programming.

Which this time of year is pretty random!

...but always entertaining:)

[Gregory Sager]

Greg Sager, do you know a Joe Elick who is now a pastor at Roseau Evangelical Covenant Church in Roseau, MN.  He went to seminary at North Park and we were at his church this morning.  An excellent service and sermon, our sister-in-law goes to his church.
I am Larry Irwin.
Thanks.

Wow, somebody actually visited Roseau, MN who isn't a hockey scout? That town is waaaay off the beaten track.

I don't know Joe Elick, although I knew his daughter, Londa. She was a North Park (undergraduate) student back in the '80s, while her dad was a student at NPTS.

[iwu70]

Titan Celebration Night @The Shirk, tonight 7 p.m.

Smile everyone . . . the Green Weenies are partying!  

Soon a national championship banner at the other end of the Shirk Arena to match the men's one from '97.

Good stuff.

IWU70