MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[iwu70]

Key take-away from the Titans big win on the road, however you define it, is that with Sodemann and Zimmer scoring like that from the perimeter and Overstreet playing well with fewer TOs, the Titans, with the big cohort of bigs they have, are a very different team.  More firmly in the top tier it seems to me.  Sure hope some improvement can come on the FT line, some work to be done, even at this point in the season.  Some key misses tonight, front ends of the one-and-one.  They could have put this game well away earlier had they shot those better.  Defensive intensity there, great pounding rebounding, better flow of the offense, perhaps the best we've seen this year so far.  Davis starting to make more of an impression, perhaps more like the Victor of old.  Let's hope so.  Musselman with a key trey . . . Mayberger with some pretty good minutes, rebounding etc.  Any road win, however defined, is a good win.

Congrats to MU on the end of the long draught . . . look out North Park.  The battle for the basement is on.   

I think NCC wins over WC . . . and by more than 3. 

(Illinois and ISU had stinkers tonight).

IWU70

[CCIWchamps]

It was a two-possession game throughout most of the final minute. A two-possession game doesn't strike me as "very firm control" ... and tossing off Ron Rose's switch of tactics as a "strategic decision" doesn't really negate the fact that it didn't work.

Again, I just can't see you justifying this "Rose outcoached Schauer" thesis based upon the fact that Tyler Peters had one point at halftime. As CCIWchamps said, it's a 40-minute game ... and Peters walked off the floor at the end of those forty minutes with 26 points, 6 assists, and a near-comeback of massive proportions from his team.

OK Greg, I give.  Mike Schauer out-coached Ron Rose tonight at King Arena.  And it was a real nail-biter. 

Go Titans.

I just wanted to give Wheaton props for hanging around and keeping it interesting.  As well, I want to give credit to the WC student section, for as obnoxious as they often are, they were sorely missed tonight with how well IWU travels.  The students could've shamed the refs into a few more home whistles, and I don't think I give them enough credit for that.  How many IWU fans were there?  It seemed to be several hundred.

[izzy stradlin]

Wheaton trotted out Caleb Demoss, Mike Kvam, Tyler Peters, Michael Berg and Joe Sokovich to start the game tonight.   That's only one opening night starter.  At the tip I had very low expectations for tonight but by the final buzzer things were better than I thought they'd be. 

Teuscher and Peter Smith didn't start but got significant minutes.  I'd expect them to both start Saturday.   

Wheaton relies on two frosh bigs in Berg and Joel Smith who will be more effective in years to come but right now without Haynes physical presence, rebounding etc, Wheaton is not going to handle a team like IWU. 

There is some truth to Titan Q' s comments on Peters.   I do think it was a good move to put Ziemnik on Peters.  Ziemnik gave Peters the outside shot which is not his strength and made sure he didn't the strength advantage in the lane.  Part of the reason Tyler ended up with 25 in the second half was that there were way more possessions in the second half with the change in tempo and frequent fouling.  His PPS and FG% for the game were still well below his normal. 

Pat Sodemann sure is a nice addition for the Titans.

[USee]

Just back from my first CCIW game (live) of the season. Having witnessed the Titanic tank of the Thunder I can offer the following thoughts firsthand:

-The first half was a solid "welcome to the CCIW" for the youngsters on the Thunder. The veteran and physical IWU team opened up a can of Ypsi on my Thunder. They clearly were not ready for that level of play, despite their non-conference success.

-I thought Ron Rose's strategy of playing Zeimink and the big 3's on TP was brilliant. Clearly flustered the Thunder and led to Peter's getting only  2pt (not 1) in the first half. (so you could say he was twice as good as Q represented!)

-The Thunder looked like they decided they couldn't play with IWU before the game started once they realized Nate Haynes was a DNP.

-If IWU is a bad FT shooting team I certainly didn't see it. In the last 2 minutes they were 14-16 until Mayberger missed a pair with 12 seconds left. (despite IWU70's description...these are the facts)

-This game was won in the last 1:35 of the first half in my opinion. Wheaton, as bad as they had played, had been out rebounded by 18 boards in the first half (which was the final margin of the game I might add) and shot 31% from the field. They were down 13 with the ball and the Titans closed out the half with a 19 pt lead. Brady Zimmer's 3 with 3 seconds to play was a huge dagger before halftime. That lead was simply too much to come back from.

-Michael Kvam, an elite 3 pt shooter, went 0-6 from the arc in his own gym. I would bet you won't see that happen the rest of the year. The Titans shot 50% from the field in the first half, largely because they had layups through being more physical.

-Brayden Teuscher is a game changer for Wheaton. He is so good at  getting to the line and making plays. Getting him back will be huge for Wheaton.

-I don't think the Thunder are nearly as bad as they looked in the first half and I don't think IWU is as good as they looked. These teams strike me as much closer in talent than the game showed. (which was a whoopin by IWU).

-I do not think IWU layed down in the second half. And the defense wasn't dramatically different on Peters from what I saw. He got called for 2 charges in the 2nd half that were help defenders. Every time he went to the rim, IWU defense collapsed on him. The problem Wheaton had was TP didn't go to the paint in the first half. He was 1-7 from the field (0-3 from 3pt arc). Which means he took 4 shots in the first half and 2 of those were post ups. The second half he took 1 3 pt shot and 13 other shots and got to the line 11 times. He was much more aggressive in the second frame. Some of that may have been because of the defense the Titans played but certainly some of that was his own doing IMO.

-It's too bad these teams were not at full strength. I suspect the rematch in Bloomington will have a very different feel. Both of these teams will be very different in February than they were tonight. Wheaton battled hard to get the lead back under 10. A Teuscher 3 with 6 seconds left made this a 3pt game but Wheaton let this one get away in the first half.

-Brady Zimmer made a big difference tonight. He had a quiet 20 pts. Contrary to IWU70's assertion, he was only 1-1 from the arc. Most of his points were in the paint taking the ball to the rim, where he was very effective.

Great game for the Titans. I bet this ends up being the best thing that happens to Wheaton during the conference run. We will see on Saturday how they respond.

-The refs were bad but I thought they were equally bad for both teams. Wheaton clearly got beat, the refs only made it entertaining.

[newCCIWfan]

I want to get back to this Millikin win, because I don't want to see it get lost in the shuffle. (And because I'll do anything to avoid having to talk about NPU right now. ) Is anybody as curious as me to read Bosko's post-game comments? And is Carthage really that damaged without Jaskulske and Johnson, or did the Red Men just really lay a stinker tonight on that hellish Kenosha-to-Decatur road trip, a stinker that is not indicative of the team's current potential?

Another possibility: has Millikin actually returned to respectability faster than we imagined?

That's an interesting angle. I suppose that it depends upon how you define "respectability". Seeing how you define "butt-whoopin'", I want a second opinion on this definition.

Seriously, though, Millikin does appear to be getting a little better with experience. Two games ago they managed to hang with a fairly decent Aurora team for 30 minutes, an Aurora team that loves to play up-tempo and can embarrass an inexperienced or under-strength team fairly fast. And, while Rockford is no world-beater, the Regents aren't bottom of the barrel, either. Beating the Regents on the road was a solid win, considering where Millikin is right now. But tonight was a quantum leap forward for the Big Blue, no matter how you slice it. Carthage is not Rockford, Luke Johnson or no Luke Johnson.

Remains to be seen how far MU's advanced, I guess. I am not looking forward to Saturday. After two humiliating blowout losses, NPU's confidence might be shattered ... and MU's will probably be sky-high.

Had a chance to check out Millikin tonight (it's the closest CCIW school to me). Was hoping to see a better showing from Carthage. Looked very sluggish from the beginning, though, that hardly can be described as an easy trip.  So to answer Greg's question ... I think part of it had to do with the long trip.

Also, obviously, without Johnson, Carthage is a very different team. Though Millikin also had to overcome some obstacles as 3 freshman Johnson, Robbins and Gardner (close to a combined 25pts and 12reb per game) were in street clothes, for violating team rules.

Despite Johnson's absence,  I didn't necessarily think it was the Millikin forwards who outplayed Carthage (though they were able to play them pretty even). Carthage forwards finished with 35pts and 12reb, where as Millikin forwards finished with 32pts and 19reb). I will also say that Carthage was hurt by Mitch Thompson's foul trouble all night.

Where I was very impressed was with the MU back court. I believe that TJ Griffin is the real deal. And while he only had 10pts and 5ast, he controlled the pace of the game. IMHO he clearly out played Logan from Carthage.

So in short, was it a goose egg, was it the long trip, or is Millikin much better than most expected??? Probably all of the above.

Here is a article from the Decatur paper about the game: http://herald-review.com/sports/college/millikin-men-break-through/article_2550a1d4-556c-11e2-b516-001a4bcf887a.html

[Titan Q]

-If IWU is a bad FT shooting team I certainly didn't see it. In the last 2 minutes they were 14-16 until Mayberger missed a pair with 12 seconds left. (despite IWU70's description...these are the facts)

IWU has 4 frontcourt players who are very shaky FT shooters - Victor Davis, Kevin Reed, Nick Anderson, and Eric Dortch. (Although I'm not willing to give up on Davis yet as a FT shooter - he should be better than he is based on his jumpshooting touch.) Fortunately the Titans have a number of perimeter players who generally should be good from the charity stripe - Dylan Overstreet, Pat Sodemann, Brady Zimmer, Andrew Ziemnik, and Mike Mayberger (despite Mayberger's bad FT showing last night).  So during the regular flow of the game, you see a heavy dose of the big guys clanking FTs.  But in late-game situations, fortunately Ron Rose does have plenty of good FT shooters to close a game out with.

Kevin Reed is an "interesting" FT shooter.  He's .525 on the season, and was .500 last year - he shot an air ball FT in a non-conf game at the Shirk earlier this year.  Yet in 2OT @ Hope last year in the NCAA tournament, with IWU up two in the final minute and 3600 people in the building and the season on the line, he swished two FTs.  And last night he calmly swished his first 3 FTs down the stretch as well. 

In guards Pat Sodemann (21-23 FT in 5 games) and Brady Zimmer (24-29 FT in 7 games) IWU has two outstanding FT shooters.  And the fact that both are "combo guards" really helps in that they can both handle the basketball in those late-game situations.  Having these two healthy now together - for basically the first time this season - just changes everything for the Titans, including the FT situation.

[Titan Q]

-The first half was a solid "welcome to the CCIW" for the youngsters on the Thunder. The veteran and physical IWU team opened up a can of Ypsi on my Thunder. They clearly were not ready for that level of play, despite their non-conference success.

No question IWU has a lot of "veteran" regulars -- Kevin Reed, Victor Davis, Andrew Ziemnik, Eric Dortch, and Nick Anderson were a big part of the Final Four team last year.  I was really pleased with the way IWU's "newcomers" played last night though.  The following guys weren't part of things last year:

- Dylan Overstreet (37 minutes last night)
- Pat Sodemann (26 minutes)
- Brady Zimmer (21 minutes)
- Mike Mayberger (18 minutes)

IWU's guards were all playing their first CCIW game @ Wheaton.  I thought all played like veterans.

[USee]

-The first half was a solid "welcome to the CCIW" for the youngsters on the Thunder. The veteran and physical IWU team opened up a can of Ypsi on my Thunder. They clearly were not ready for that level of play, despite their non-conference success.

No question IWU has a lot of "veteran" regulars -- Kevin Reed, Victor Davis, Andrew Ziemnik, Eric Dortch, and Nick Anderson were a big part of the Final Four team last year.  I was really pleased with the way IWU's "newcomers" played last night though.  The following guys weren't part of things last year:

- Dylan Overstreet (37 minutes last night)
- Pat Sodemann (26 minutes)
- Brady Zimmer (21 minutes)
- Mike Mayberger (18 minutes)

IWU's guards were all playing their first CCIW game @ Wheaton.  I thought all played like veterans.

It was pretty clear to me the "Bigs" for IWU did the most damage in the first half. Their physical play and rebounding (an 18 rebound edge in the 1st half) was the reason I used the phrase "welcome to the CCIW" as it was a rude awakening for the young Thunder bigs (smith, smith, berg, sokovich) as the the level of physical play in the league. I thought the IWU perimeter guys played well (only 4 TO combined for them) but the wake up call definitely came from the IWU frontline. Also, Wheaton got a lot of good looks from the perimeter that just didn't fall. Kvam was 0-6 from the arc and most of those were open looks. IWU played great and earned the win but as I said, I don't think they are 12-20 pts better than Wheaton like they were in the first half.

[Titan Q]

IWU played great and earned the win but as I said, I don't think they are 12-20 pts better than Wheaton like they were in the first half.

Coming into the game I felt like IWU and Wheaton were two extremely evenly matched teams overall.  I still think that.  I don't see a lot of separation between the Titans and Thunder - IWU just played a lot better yesterday.

It was pretty clear to me the "Bigs" for IWU did the most damage in the first half. Their physical play and rebounding (an 18 rebound edge in the 1st half) was the reason I used the phrase "welcome to the CCIW" as it was a rude awakening for the young Thunder bigs (smith, smith, berg, sokovich) as the the level of physical play in the league. I thought the IWU perimeter guys played well (only 4 TO combined for them) but the wake up call definitely came from the IWU frontline.

No question - IWU's big guys were the key to what happened in the first 25 minutes.  Victor Davis, Andrew Ziemnik, and Kevin Reed in particular were too much physically for the Thunder to handle.

For a football guy you often say smart things about basketball, USee.  Impressive versatility.

[Titan Q]

Wheaton's two victories against Hope and WashU have shown that Wheaton is a very mature team for playing so many young guys.  It also shows they can defend a bigger team. Berg's athleticism has been on display this past week and his athleticism along with the versatility of Peter Smith will really stretch teams defensively.  That said, North Central and IWU both have versatile guys who can defend with them. 

I do think that North Central and IWU are much more physical than Wash U in the frontcourt.  Wash U is very big at the 3/4/5 spots, and Burnett and Klimek are certainly strong, but I still think Wash U is more "tall" and "skilled" than they are "physical", if that makes sense.  Playing without Victor Davis, IWU's most physical player, IWU out-rebounded Wash U by 5 and was pretty clearly the stronger, more physical team.  Take away the IWU game, and Wash U is out-rebounding opponents a ridiculous 348-200 in those 8 other games -- that's 18.5 per game.  Last night the Bears out-rebounded Wheaton by 15. (Wash U killed IWU from the perimeter that night and IWU was terrible offensively.)  So just to give you an idea how physical IWU is, the Titans actually won the battle of the boards vs Wash U...again, without Davis.

I think Wheaton's frontcourt players could have their hands full on both ends of the floor against NCC and IWU.  I think it's fair to say the Thunder won't see anything quite like it in the non-conference -- I'm guessing Hope and Calvin were tall but not terribly physical?  And while I haven't seen a lot of Augustana yet, I'm guessing the Vikings are awfully physical down low too.  So if there is any question I have with Wheaton at this point, it's just that there are some big, physical frontcourts in the CCIW this year and I'm not 100% sure how the Thunder will stack up.

Gonna be a great 2013 CCIW race...as always.

This is a post I made about Wheaton in early-December.  After last night I still think this is the big question about Wheaton.  I know playing without Nathan Haynes hurt the Thunder in the "physical" department, but Wheaton was dominated physically at multiple spots on the floor by IWU.  NCC will pose similar problems, and to a lesser extent Augie will as well.

[USee]

For a football guy you often say smart things about basketball, USee.  Impressive versatility.

I am an expert on very little but have an opinion on everything!

[USee]

Wheaton's two victories against Hope and WashU have shown that Wheaton is a very mature team for playing so many young guys.  It also shows they can defend a bigger team. Berg's athleticism has been on display this past week and his athleticism along with the versatility of Peter Smith will really stretch teams defensively.  That said, North Central and IWU both have versatile guys who can defend with them. 

I do think that North Central and IWU are much more physical than Wash U in the frontcourt.  Wash U is very big at the 3/4/5 spots, and Burnett and Klimek are certainly strong, but I still think Wash U is more "tall" and "skilled" than they are "physical", if that makes sense.  Playing without Victor Davis, IWU's most physical player, IWU out-rebounded Wash U by 5 and was pretty clearly the stronger, more physical team.  Take away the IWU game, and Wash U is out-rebounding opponents a ridiculous 348-200 in those 8 other games -- that's 18.5 per game.  Last night the Bears out-rebounded Wheaton by 15. (Wash U killed IWU from the perimeter that night and IWU was terrible offensively.)  So just to give you an idea how physical IWU is, the Titans actually won the battle of the boards vs Wash U...again, without Davis.

I think Wheaton's frontcourt players could have their hands full on both ends of the floor against NCC and IWU.  I think it's fair to say the Thunder won't see anything quite like it in the non-conference -- I'm guessing Hope and Calvin were tall but not terribly physical?  And while I haven't seen a lot of Augustana yet, I'm guessing the Vikings are awfully physical down low too.  So if there is any question I have with Wheaton at this point, it's just that there are some big, physical frontcourts in the CCIW this year and I'm not 100% sure how the Thunder will stack up.

Gonna be a great 2013 CCIW race...as always.

This is a post I made about Wheaton in early-December.  After last night I still think this is the big question about Wheaton.  I know playing without Nathan Haynes hurt the Thunder in the "physical" department, but Wheaton was dominated physically at multiple spots on the floor by IWU.  NCC will pose similar problems, and to a lesser extent Augie will as well.

I think the Wheaton front line has the ability to play much more aggressively than they showed last night. I really believe the combination of IWU's physical play and the absence of Nate Haynes affected the Thunder before the tip. I said I don't think the Thunder are 12-20pts worse than the Titans, I don't think they are 18 rebounds worse either. They needed to limit the rebound discrepancy AND shoot the ball well from the arc going into last nights game. They did neither. They can play better and I suspect they will on Saturday. Not sure it will be enough, but they will play better.

[iwumichigander]

I don't think anyone on this board (including myself) would have projected a four way first place tie after the first CCIW game which included Millikin. For the conference and Millikin, it was nice to have them get past the losing streak. 

[AndOne]

Whether operating under the "burden" of being named #1 earlier in the day, or still shaking off the effects of their journey to Las Vegas, it took a while for the NCC Cardinals to shift into drive last light in Elmhurst where they posted a highly expected win over the outmatched Bluejays. The slow start away from the opening tip was evidenced by the fact that at the 9:11 mark of the opening stanza, the cards had scored only 12 points. However, they only trailed by 2 at the time, and it was at that point that the Cards hit the gas, and closed the half with a 24-5 surge that effectively rendered the game over. Coasting home from an 18 point half time lead, the Cards posted a 71-51 win, after once building a 26 point advantage, and never seeing their lead drop below 16 points. 

The Cards were led by Brandon Williams who, in his best outing of the year, had a team high 17 points and added 6 rebounds. Landon Gamble followed with 13 points, and Vince Kmiec added 12. Jack Burchett led the bench corps with 11 points, and a team high 7 boards. Pat Rourke handed out 5 assists.

Elmhurst appeared to employ a hack attack defense in an attempt to slow the Cardinals production. Their constant fouling resulted in the Cards going to the line a season high 42 times. Unfortunately, the Cards did not really take full advantage of the gifts presented them, converting on only 25 of their 42 opportunities for a sickly 59.5% 
In Nick Sanford, who posted game highs in both points and rebounds with 23 and 12, the Bluejays have one of the leaguer's elite players. However, they appear to have little else available to give many opponents much cause for concern. Sanford was the only Jay in double figures, and Elmhurst lost by 20 points in a game where the Cardinals hit less than 60% of their FTs, were out rebounded by 2, and where 2 of their biggest stars basically took the night off.
I have no idea why Alex DeBack started over either Alex Morganov (2nd high scorer) or even Eric Dornfeld. DeBack is a 6'7" 240 pounder who spent a vast majority occupying space around the FT line, and mainly serving to help reverse the ball from one side of the court to the other. Taylor Baxter, a former D1 scholarship player who I expected some good things from, seemed content to spend most of his time dribbling from one side of the court to the other, occasionally pausing to throw up an ill advised-off balance shot that resulted in his finishing with a total of 2 points.
Bryant Ackerman shows some promise, but does not yet look ready for the rigors of CCIW level defensive tactics.
Kyle Wuest who played 21 minutes, but didn't come close to making any of his 6 shots, committed 4 TOs, and fouled out, and Kenny Payonk who must have set some kind of record by recording his limit of 5 fouls in only 6 minutes, don't look ready for CCIW play. In summary, I would venture that with Millikin seemingly being improved, and North Park having Holmes, Cassita, and Weaver, Elmhurst may be your 8th place team this season. 

[thunder38]

The rebounding discrepancy wasn't all that surprising to me upon learning that Haynes was a DNP. The thing that was the most alarming to me was how easily IWU was able to get into the paint both with and without the ball. I know Caleb DeMoss was probably one of the guys thrown into the starting lineup due to the health circumstances and he did alright (11 pts on 4-5 shooting) but defensively let the ballhandler (usually Overstreet) turn the corner too many times on the pick and roll. Part of that also goes on the hedging help defender but it seemed like Overstreet got to the lane whenever he wanted to against DeMoss and obviously that's going to collapse a defense any time the ball gets into the lane like that.

The other thing was just physical mentality which has already been touched on in some contexts but I was shocked how often Wheaton allowed a cutter to cut through unhindered. Early in the year they were very good at rerouting cutters and cutting off those lanes but the Titans had a green light to go wherever they wanted on the floor without the ball.

In response to Q's post regarding the Titan newcomers, they had at least been able to see CCIW action to have some sort of idea what to expect while the newbies for the Thunder (Berg, J. Smith) only had the warnings of their teammates which they obviously did not heed.

Wheaton better hope Haynes is back for Saturday or the Hanger House of Horrors will rear its ugly head again.