MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

I think USee and thunder38 both make some good points.
I don't think Wesleyan is 12-20 points or 18 rebounds better than Wheaton. Especially since IWU won by only 3, and the conference leading rebounder didn't play for WC. Also, lack of physicality is definitely a Wheaton liability. Michael Berg, especially, has a strong case of Luke Johnson Syndrome in that it doesn't appear that he will soon meet any physical confrontation on the basketball court which he either looks forward to or relishes. Did he spend most of his time last night down in the right hand corner again? And, with Haynes out, Wheaton's ability to bring the physical game was even further diminished.

After last night, Wheaton will definitely come into the Hangar in a pissed off mood (can I say PO'ed and Wheaton in the same sentence? ).
North Central now has a bullseye on their back, and must be ready for the opposition's best effort every time out. If they want to stay #1, they need to play like it. No nights off, no soft passes, no 3 shot fouls on a desperation 3 point shot clock buzzer beater heave from deep in the corner, no retaliatory forearm shivers to the chest in front of a ref standing only 3 feet away, no more sickly FT percentage performances or disgustingly high TO totals.

On the other hand, Wheaton better be ready for even more physical play on Saturday night in the Hangar House Of Horrors.   

[WUPHF]

After last night, Wheaton will definitely come into the Hangar in a pissed off mood (can I say PO'ed and Wheaton in the same sentence?).

You can unless you signed the Community Covenant. And if that is the case, no victory dances on Saturday.

[bopol]

I want to get back to this Millikin win, because I don't want to see it get lost in the shuffle. (And because I'll do anything to avoid having to talk about NPU right now. ) Is anybody as curious as me to read Bosko's post-game comments? And is Carthage really that damaged without Jaskulske and Johnson, or did the Red Men just really lay a stinker tonight on that hellish Kenosha-to-Decatur road trip, a stinker that is not indicative of the team's current potential?

Carthage has no depth.  They only go 6 deep without Johnson.  Now, they can't have a player get into foul trouble without having to go into the part of the bench that they don't really want to use.  Unless someone steps up (I am hopeful on Van Wyk and Lee), the key will be to get the really good CCIW refs (you know, the ones that call fouls every two seconds) and anyone will be able to beat Carthage.

[AndOne]

I want to get back to this Millikin win, because I don't want to see it get lost in the shuffle. (And because I'll do anything to avoid having to talk about NPU right now. ) Is anybody as curious as me to read Bosko's post-game comments? And is Carthage really that damaged without Jaskulske and Johnson, or did the Red Men just really lay a stinker tonight on that hellish Kenosha-to-Decatur road trip, a stinker that is not indicative of the team's current potential?

Carthage has no depth.  They only go 6 deep without Johnson.  Now, they can't have a player get into foul trouble without having to go into the part of the bench that they don't really want to use.  Unless someone steps up (I am hopeful on Van Wyk and Lee), the key will be to get the really good CCIW refs (you know, the ones that call fouls every two seconds) and anyone will be able to beat Carthage.

And piggybacking on what bopol said, and also in answer to Greg Sager's original question, Carthage is really that damaged without Malcom Kelly. 

[bopol]

I want to get back to this Millikin win, because I don't want to see it get lost in the shuffle. (And because I'll do anything to avoid having to talk about NPU right now. ) Is anybody as curious as me to read Bosko's post-game comments? And is Carthage really that damaged without Jaskulske and Johnson, or did the Red Men just really lay a stinker tonight on that hellish Kenosha-to-Decatur road trip, a stinker that is not indicative of the team's current potential?

Carthage has no depth.  They only go 6 deep without Johnson.  Now, they can't have a player get into foul trouble without having to go into the part of the bench that they don't really want to use.  Unless someone steps up (I am hopeful on Van Wyk and Lee), the key will be to get the really good CCIW refs (you know, the ones that call fouls every two seconds) and anyone will be able to beat Carthage.

And piggybacking on what bopol said, and also in answer to Greg Sager's original question, Carthage is really that damaged without Malcom Kelly. 

Well, Malcom is the reason Carthage will have trouble playing with NC, Wheaton, etc.  Lack of depth is why Carthage will have trouble with the NP, Elmhurst and Millikin.

That said, Malcom in that game, Carthage wins.

I'm happy he plans on coming back next year...

[Gregory Sager]

In summary, I would venture that with Millikin seemingly being improved, and North Park having Holmes, Cassita, and Weaver, Elmhurst may be your 8th place team this season.

Well, one can only hope. With Elmhurst clearly stuck in the mud, Millikin being in the midst of a youth movement to end all youth movements, and Carthage staggered by injuries to its front line, North Park fans might not have reason to think that all is lost, in spite of the fact that the Vikings have dropped their last two games by an astonishing 90 points. But NPU has no reason to be all that encouraged, either.

It's not just that Augustana is deep and talented. It is both -- in fact, I think it can be argued that Augie has more raw talent on the roster now than it has had at any time during Giovanine's tenure there. (It is very young and inexperienced talent, for the most part, which means that Augie is still vulnerable this season to the likes of North Central, Wesleyan, and Wheaton.) And it's not just that Augie's dramatic size advantage over NPU allowed the hosts to go over the top for easy layups or play inside-out all evening as well as almost double up the Park on the boards, 47-24, or that Augie shot the heck out of the ball from beyond the arc (a phrase none of us is used to reading ). NPU added greatly to the one-sidedness of the affair by playing awfully. The Vikings still turn the ball over as though they were playing the game while wearing oven mitts. Point-guard-by-default Zach Cassita had five turnovers and zero assists, and the team's main man, Mark Holmes, had four turnovers and zero assists. NPU's a:to was 4:15 for the night. Some of that was good Augie defense, but most of it was NPU panicking, rushing, not paying attention, and/or not following instructions.

The defense? Well, a smallish team facing a big team has to concede some things, and when you collapse in the paint and dare the big team to shoot treys, and it does -- to the tune of making nine of its first thirteen trey attempts -- you just have to shrug your shoulders and admit that it's not going to be your night. As ugly as the score got, I was much more disappointed with what NPU didn't do on offense than I was with what they were unable to do on defense.

NPU is in a very precarious situation right now, it seems to me. After two shellackings in a row like that, a coach can lose his team for good. Tom Slyder needs to get good practices out of his team today and tomorrow to get them back into a place mentally where they can compete again.

Also, obviously, without Johnson, Carthage is a very different team. Though Millikin also had to overcome some obstacles as 3 freshman Johnson, Robbins and Gardner (close to a combined 25pts and 12reb per game) were in street clothes, for violating team rules.

Thanks for this info. I was going to ask today what had happened to those guys. They seemed like important pieces for Matt Nadelhoffer, given that they make up his top rebounder and two of his top three scorers. Any idea as to whether the suspension is longer than two games? [cross fingers]

Millikin's not really big and doesn't appear to have a dominant low-post presence, and that, along with the youth thing, leads me to hope that the Big Blue will be a better matchup for NPU on Saturday afternoon.

[Gregory Sager]

I want to get back to this Millikin win, because I don't want to see it get lost in the shuffle. (And because I'll do anything to avoid having to talk about NPU right now. ) Is anybody as curious as me to read Bosko's post-game comments? And is Carthage really that damaged without Jaskulske and Johnson, or did the Red Men just really lay a stinker tonight on that hellish Kenosha-to-Decatur road trip, a stinker that is not indicative of the team's current potential?

Carthage has no depth.  They only go 6 deep without Johnson.  Now, they can't have a player get into foul trouble without having to go into the part of the bench that they don't really want to use.  Unless someone steps up (I am hopeful on Van Wyk and Lee), the key will be to get the really good CCIW refs (you know, the ones that call fouls every two seconds) and anyone will be able to beat Carthage.

And piggybacking on what bopol said, and also in answer to Greg Sager's original question, Carthage is really that damaged without Malcom Kelly. 

Carthage hasn't had Malcom Kelly all season. And Carthage has turned in some good performances this season. Some of them, in fact, were very good: Road wins over Buena Vista and Calvin, the near-loss to UWW, the overtime loss to NAIA-2 #5 and 14-1 Northwood (FL). Kelly didn't figure into those performances. Jaskulske and Johnson did. (Jaskulske was lost prior to the Northwood game, though; don't know if his presence would've tipped the game in Carthage's direction, but, since the game went into OT, it's reasonable to make such a speculation.)

Bosko's had to make do without Kelly since the opening of preseason, just as Tom Slyder's had to make do without Mike Gabriel. You can't really pinpoint the loss of a player you've never had as the reason for your team's misfortunes, because he was never a part of your team to begin with. That's especially true when you demonstrate some success without having that player on your roster. But you can pinpoint the loss of players who've been key performers for your team up until the point where you lost them.

Which reminds me: Does anybody have any info as to whether it's Johnson's back that has him out again, and if he will be returning at all this season?

[kenoshamark]

Greg,

I believe a recent article in the Kenosha News did reference his back problems.   

Another issue that has caused them frontcourt depth problems was the fact that Nick Bauch left the team.   I believe that was about a month ago and coincided with Jaskulske getting hurt.   Bauch was at least a big body they could use right now.   Not sure why he left but guessing it had to do with playing time (only speculation on my part).

[Gregory Sager]

I actually tore a page out of the Titan Q social-media playbook last week and read Nick Bauch's Twitter posts going back to last summer. He seemed like he was all eager to play for the Red Men again, right up until the start of the season ... and then, with no reason given, he just came out with a tweet along the lines of, "It's going to be strange not to be playing basketball this year." Seemed like it came right out of the blue in the middle of November.

Maybe there was some stuff going on behind the scenes. Your playing-time explanation is a reasonable guess, K-Mark. If it's accurate, the irony is that Bauch could've had all the playing time he could handle in January and February if he'd only stuck it out.

[bopol]

Which reminds me: Does anybody have any info as to whether it's Johnson's back that has him out again, and if he will be returning at all this season?

Lack of depth will cause this.  If Mitch Thompson doesn't get in foul trouble, maybe he takes about half of Reese Herth's bombs and maybe Carthage wins.  Who knows?  I expect this will happen, but I also expect that Carthage will score an upset or two along the ways against the top 4 teams.

[Mr. Ypsi]

OK Greg, I give.  Mike Schauer out-coached Ron Rose tonight at King Arena.

Yeah. As if I ever said that.

And it was a real nail-biter.

Depends upon who's doing the biting and the length of the nails, I suppose.

I want to get back to this Millikin win, because I don't want to see it get lost in the shuffle. (And because I'll do anything to avoid having to talk about NPU right now. ) Is anybody as curious as me to read Bosko's post-game comments? And is Carthage really that damaged without Jaskulske and Johnson, or did the Red Men just really lay a stinker tonight on that hellish Kenosha-to-Decatur road trip, a stinker that is not indicative of the team's current potential?

Another possibility: has Millikin actually returned to respectability faster than we imagined?

That's an interesting angle. I suppose that it depends upon how you define "respectability". Seeing how you define "butt-whoopin'", I want a second opinion on this definition.

Seriously, though, Millikin does appear to be getting a little better with experience. Two games ago they managed to hang with a fairly decent Aurora team for 30 minutes, an Aurora team that loves to play up-tempo and can embarrass an inexperienced or under-strength team fairly fast. And, while Rockford is no world-beater, the Regents aren't bottom of the barrel, either. Beating the Regents on the road was a solid win, considering where Millikin is right now. But tonight was a quantum leap forward for the Big Blue, no matter how you slice it. Carthage is not Rockford, Luke Johnson or no Luke Johnson.

Remains to be seen how far MU's advanced, I guess. I am not looking forward to Saturday. After two humiliating blowout losses, NPU's confidence might be shattered ... and MU's will probably be sky-high.

Overlooked the bolded part before.  I'm certainly not suddenly predicting Millikin is a contender (or even middle-of-the-pack), but 3-4 conference wins suddenly doesn't look that unlikely.  Considering where they've been, that would certainly qualify as 'respectable'!  As a long-suffering Viking football fan, I'm sure you understand that 'respectable' is a relative term - two NPU conference wins n football would jump right past 'respectable'!

[Gregory Sager]

Well, of course everything's relative. But I think that the relativity lies more in the context of the league rather than of the program. A lot of how respectable or un-respectable your team looks hinges upon what the rest of the league looks like in a given season. And right now it's beginning to look like the bottom half of the league is really weak this season by traditional CCIW standards. That makes Millikin's potential path to a respectable-looking record a lot easier than it would been, say, four or five years ago. Whether it means the team is as strong as a team in a comparable position in the standings was four or five years ago is another matter entirely.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Good point, Greg - it would seem that you are right.  Unlike the usual case in bball, the CCIW is starting to look this season like the old 'Big Four, Little Four' days of CCIW fball.

For anyone who has actually seen Millikin this year, IF the freshmen all stick around and show the usual year-to-year improvement, ARE we looking at an actual contender in 2-3 years?

[Gregory Sager]

I'll have an answer for you by Saturday night, Chuck.

[newCCIWfan]

Good point, Greg - it would seem that you are right.  Unlike the usual case in bball, the CCIW is starting to look this season like the old 'Big Four, Little Four' days of CCIW fball.

For anyone who has actually seen Millikin this year, IF the freshmen all stick around and show the usual year-to-year improvement, ARE we looking at an actual contender in 2-3 years?

Having seen the Big Blue play 4 times this year (if you include their scrimmage against Wash U), I suppose that makes me one of the few on here who can answer the question. (I will be interested to hear Greg's answer on Saturday). Ironically, the more I watch of this young squad, the more intrigued I get.

My answer would be a qualified yes that they can contend in 2-3 years (and I reserve the right to change my mind once I see games against the top 4 in the conference).

The ability of Millikin to be a contender in 2-3 years (provided all the freshman stay around) is going to rest on two things:
-  Not only will it require the usual year to year improvement of the players, but I think they will need a "greater than usual" improvement from their forwards. In Wilfer they have someone with a body similar to Luke Scarlata (though an inch shorter) who loves to bang. He's just very raw in the post right. Owens has a similar body type to Landon Gamble / Nick Sanford (again, very raw). And Johnson could easily be the most athletic player in the CCIW but, (in the words of Nathan Bedford Forrest) is the "mostest" Raw.  For MU to be a contender they need to have forwards to match the inside presence of NCC, Augie, etc.
-  For MU to be a contender they will also need another solid recruiting year (now, they don't need 25 more freshman, but they need 1 or 2 that can improve the depth.


If they are able to do the above, here are 2 things they have going for them which should help them in the years to come.
-  Point Guard Play - one of the reasons I was so interested in seeing this first CCIW match up was because it pitted TJ Griffin vs. Donte Logan, the second best returning point guard in the league (obviously Tyler Peters is the best). As I said before, though their stat line was similar (edge to Griffin), Griffin clearly dominated the match up. He was able to get anywhere he wanted on the offensive end of the floor, did a great job forcing Carthage out of what they wanted to do. Going into next year, Griffin has the ability to be the best point guard in the conference.
-  Shooters - for the first time in years, I think Millikin has players that you must guard from the perimeter.  They have 3 shooters over 40% from three, shooting what I would term a significant number of threes (and a 4th player just under 40%).  This is the first time teams cannot pack the paint against Millikin and simply dare them to hit from 3.

Those are just a few thoughts on the little I've been able to watch of Millikin live. I look forward to watching more games, and to the feedback from y'all as MU comes through your town.

I can't wait to see all the CCIW teams play down here when I have the chance -- there is something very special about this league that is so much fun to watch! Makes being a CCIW fan enjoyable.