MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[veterancciwfan]

Not much of a contest tonight at Shirk. Elmhurst, though with mediocre talent (Sanford and Foster are the exceptions), should be better. I thought the Jays lost interest in the 2nd half and maybe that is a reflection on Sherer ( I know nothing about how the players respond to him or how they respect him)? My only concern was in protecting the safety of the IWU players as the Jays were overly physical at times, especially Sanford. But that physical play has been an Elmhurst staple for many years-nothing new.                                                                 

IWU is very solid, considering that Zimmer and Mayberger form the nucleus of an outstanding bench. Both could start and star for most D3 teams.. The big question mark for the Titans is FT shooting. A little better tonight at 68%. Overstreet, who I always thought would be an impact player in the CCIW, has reached that level with a dramatic decline in TOs. So athletic with great off-balance body control, especially with spin moves in the paint to allow him good 10 foot shots or a perfect pass to a wing for an open 3-point shot. And now IWU has Zimmer (his 3 point FG% after 12 games was .563), Sodermann, Mayberger (his 3 point FG% after 12 games was .583), and Mussleman (shooting .615 for 3s after 12 games) to knock down those 3s.

[kenoshamark]

Here is an interesting side article from the Kenosha News today:

Luke Johnson leaves Carthage

Published: 1/5 11:10 p.m.
Updated: 1/5 11:11 p.m.

BY ANDREW HORSCHAK
ahorschak@kenoshanews.com

Luke Johnson, Carthage's leading scorer and rebounder, has left school and is no longer on the team.

The 6-foot-9 sophomore center, who missed three games recently due to back trouble, averaged 13.0 points and 6.6 rebounds in nine games.

As a freshman, Johnson averaged 9.3 points and 6.3 rebounds in 24 games (22 starts). The Naperville, Ill., native also had a single-season school record 64 blocked shots.

"Luke Johnson is a talented basketball player like so many kids of today who lives in a different world," Djurickovic said. "Luke Johnson sees himself as an NBA player. He sees himself as a Division I player. He thinks this is his best way to achieve those goals."

[Titan Q]

"Luke Johnson is a talented basketball player like so many kids of today who lives in a different world," Djurickovic said. "Luke Johnson sees himself as an NBA player. He sees himself as a Division I player. He thinks this is his best way to achieve those goals."

Wow. 

Ron Rose recruited, and came really close to landing, a 6-7 PF named Jordan Harks from Glenbard South a few years back.  He ended up choosing NAIA Olivet Nazarene and had a great freshman year for Ralph Hodge.  When his freshman season ended, he told Hodge he saw himself as a Division I player, not a small college player, so he left ONU.  After a year off due to NCAA transfer rules, Harks is now in his second year at D1 Central Arkansas, playing for Corliss Williamson...

http://ucasports.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=1299&path=mbball

He starts and averages 11.6 points and 4.9 rebounds per game.

The Luke Johnson story reminded me of Harks.  The difference, however, is that Johnson is nowhere near as good as Harks.  I'll be interested to see how Johnson's search for a D1 opportunity plays out.  After watching him play several CCIW games, I was beginning to really question whether or not he was physical and versatile enough to become a great CCIW player.  He seemed to just want to float around the perimeter shooting jumpshots.  Certainly an impressive skill set...but I just don't know about D1.

[AndOne]

I think just about every CCIW team has has a kid in recent years who thought he was too good for D3 and should be playing D1 ball. Not sure how many also considered themselves NBA players. This partially, at least, goes back to the question of "Do you want to be a D3 star or a D1 sub who plays in 6 games for a total of 20 minutes for the year?"

Specifically, Luke Johnson's love of perimeter play, distain of positioning himself anywhere near underneath the basket, and avoidance of any form of physical play were only further developed since his arrival in Kenosha. These aspects of his play were evident back in high school.

NBA ha ha--like a freight train through marshmallow, with Johnson being the marshmallow. If Luke Johnson thinks he is even a major D1 player, let alone an NBA player, then Bosko was certainly right when he said Johnson lives in another world. Its called outer space. 

[D-3 watcher]

And one, you just don't get it do you. First you report that Luke  Johnson absence was due to academic problems, not knowing for sure, and then trying to sugar coat it. I didn't go back into your past post, but its not the first time you have brought up a young mans grades and or his family's financial background. We know your close to the NCC program, so who knows who giving you this inside info, but I think it's reckless and dumb.
It's like me saying that I have talk to people on this board that think you are a jerk and an arse. I don't know for sure but it comes from a reliable source.
Let me say I'm only 90% sure this is correct, so if its not I'm sorry.
These young men, or kids, in my opinion do not deserve those things being discussed.

[CCIWchamps]

"Luke Johnson is a talented basketball player like so many kids of today who lives in a different world," Djurickovic said. "Luke Johnson sees himself as an NBA player. He sees himself as a Division I player. He thinks this is his best way to achieve those goals."

When I read this I wondered if Djurickovic was throwing him under the bus, maybe speaking off the top of his head.  I don't say that to accuse the coach of anything, but just trying to imagine another context that would make sense of a D3 guy saying he could be in the NBA.  Especially a soft big man.

[Gregory Sager]

I know that there are people who read this board who think that my friendship with Bosko Djurickovic taints my judgment of the man, but what you're suggesting makes absolutely no sense, CCIWchamps. Why on earth would Bosko utter such a calumny about Luke Johnson to a member of the media, especially to a reporter from the daily paper in Kenosha? Nothing but bad things could come from that. His players would know that he was telling a lie about Johnson, because they lived and traveled and dressed and practiced and played with Johnson and they know his situation and his aspirations better than anyone. Would you want to keep playing for a coach who told a lie to a member of the press and smeared one of your peers? Word would get out immediately that Bosko had concocted a malicious and untrue accusation in the press about a player that had quit his team, and he'd probably be in hot water with the school because of it. For sure it would damage his reputation and his ability to recruit. Bosko's a complex man who has his faults, just like the rest of us, but he's neither a slanderer nor an idiot.

His statement should be taken at face value, because, as Bob and Mark have already attested, there are lots of Luke Johnsons out there -- kids who think that they're better at basketball than they really are, and who spurn small-college teams because they believe that they can do as well or better at a higher level. This sort of thinking happens sometimes with players who are already at a small college, but it most often manifests itself on the recruiting trail, where it seems as though every other kid out there refuses to commit to a D3 until the last minute because he thinks that there will be a scholarship from a big school forthcoming for him -- or he turns down the D2 offer because he thinks he's a D1 player, or he turns down the low major D1 because he thinks he's Big Ten or ACC material. And lots of 'em -- waaaaay too many of them -- think that they're going to be playing in the NBA someday.

What Bosko described with regard to Luke Johnson is commonplace. There's no reason whatsoever to gainsay what Bosko said in the Kenosha News.

(And, yes, there are D3 players who think that they're going to play in the NBA someday. Sad, but true. At least Luke Johnson was pragmatic enough about his aspiration to do something constructive about it by leaving Carthage to seek a level of college ball more conducive to getting himself noticed by NBA scouts. I seriously doubt that it'll work for him -- as others have said, he's a soft 6'9, 230 outside shooter who shies away from contact under the basket and who has no ball-handling skills -- and I suspect that he'll either end up as a peripheral player at a low D1, or wise up and finish out his career at a different small school, or else give up on basketball entirely. But he's not an outlier. As Bosko said, there's a lot of young men today who have outsized and unrealistic expectations of themselves with regard to basketball.)

[AndOne]

I would have bet that, following my above post, you would again open your mouth and say nothing D-3 watcher.

I indicated what I was told by a couple of different sources. I also indicated that the information was not a 100% certainty. However, when you examine the Carthage academic calendar you'll see final exams ended 12/14, and the last game in which he played was 12/18, so its certainly not beyond the realm of possibility of being at least partially involved. As far as anything involving anyone's family finances, I've definitely said that especially under today's financial conditions, its very understandable that a family would look for D1 or D2 scholarship money even if the player did not really possess D1 or D2 skills. And, thats all I've said on the subject. I'm surprised you have a problem with that.

Your problem d-3 is that you have an inflated opinion of both yourself and of your basketball acumen. You think your crap doesn't stink because you're a successful guy flying around in your own plane and such, and you think you're all knowing when it comes to basketball, when in fact your posts offer very little in the form of anything resembling any form of insightful analysis. This is evidenced by your recent posts----

Q, about St.Louis this weekend, we are staying at the casino so don't forget to bring some dough. Also, on Friday we will be golfing at Gateway National, a really nice track just north of the city. On Saturday we will be at Bellerive, home of future and past major championships. Bring plenty of extra rocks, there is some water issues you will have to deal with. If you are flying, I'll bring an extra set of sticks for you. Ever play Texas Hold Em?

There are noted D3 basketball authority people on this board. Really?? Other than myself. Really??

Of course, you can say you were just kidding, but we know you were serious. So as far as just not getting it, it seems you're the poster boy.

So, rather than accusing others of being a jerk and an arse, just continue on your hypocritical way with comments like---

I'll still be able to buy you a new pair of pants that fit, those  you wear all the time, the ones that only go to your shins, I don't get it, expecting a flood??

By the way, I got some new pants for Christmas. They aren't the baggy, too long old man's style you favor, but I hope you'll like them anyway. 

You bet, sometimes I'm definitely both a jerk, and an arse, d-3. But I've got a long way to go to match your record in either category.   

[AndOne]

Although Bosko is not my favorite, I thoroughly subscribe to what Greg Sager said about him above, i don't believe he is throwing anyone under the bus, intentionally or unintentionally.

What I would like to concentrate and comment on is the 2nd paragraph of Greg's post dealing with the fact that there are lots of kids who mistakenly think they are D2 or D1 talents when, in fact, they're not close-----
A major reason for this is AAU coaches. Many are often a cancer who, under the guise of helping a player, are actually lying to him and telling him how great he is and what he is capable of beyond the high school level. Often those coaches are just self-promoting. They want the media to pick up on, and write about all their "stars." And, they want the parents of the kids on their teams to think they always have their son's best interests at heart. Some of these coaches are actually very helpful to the real stars careers. But, just as often, they only give rise to unrealistic expectations on the part of the players.

[Titan Q]

His statement should be taken at face value, because, as Bob and Mark have already attested, there are lots of Luke Johnsons out there -- kids who think that they're better at basketball than they really are, and who spurn small-college teams because they believe that they can do as well or better at a higher level. This sort of thinking happens sometimes with players who are already at a small college, but it most often manifests itself on the recruiting trail, where it seems as though every other kid out there refuses to commit to a D3 until the last minute because he thinks that there will be a scholarship from a big school forthcoming for him -- or he turns down the D2 offer because he thinks he's a D1 player, or he turns down the low major D1 because he thinks he's Big Ten or ACC material. And lots of 'em -- waaaaay too many of them -- think that they're going to be playing in the NBA someday.

I believe what Greg describes above is exactly what was at the heart of Bosko's quote that Luke Johnson is "...like so many kids of today who lives in a different world."

Bosko has seen the Division III recruiting landscape change dramatically over the course of the last 15-20 years.  As AndOne points out, AAU coaches push every kid towards the highest possible level of basketball, and away from Division III.  Recruiting websites label kids who are nowhere close to as good as Bryan Crabtree or Antoine McDaniel or Kent Raymond or Keelan Amelianovich as "definite DI prospect."  Many high school head coaches think Division III is beneath their star players. 

A lot of (not all) high school players today are in a "different world" in terms of their ability because of all of this stuff swirling around them.  I think Bosko has seen a heavy dose of that over the course of the last decade and I hear that frustration coming out in the Luke Johnson quote to the Kenosha paper.

[Titan Q]

Your problem d-3 is that you have an inflated opinion of both yourself and of your basketball acumen. You think your crap doesn't stink because you're a successful guy flying around in your own plane and such,

I would have saved a lot of money had D-3 Watcher taken his jet to Kenosha for the 2009-10 CCIW tournament.  Started playing Texas Hold 'Em on I-55 near Lexington...by Weber Road I was down $200.  Thought I had Watcher reeled in by slow-playing pocket Queens -- didn't turn out well.

As the saying goes, "It's hard to beat a guy in poker who has his own plane."

[bopol]

I guess if I break D1 to three levels (high major; mid-major and low major), I can see Johnson contributing at low major and maybe even mid-major.  But even at mid-major, he strikes me as more project than definite contributor.  The thing is; he's lost 2 years of eligibility.  So, I think only a weaker D1 team will take a chance on him at this point as, if he doesn't contribute immediately, he'll be a wasted scholarship.  More likely, he'll go D2 and I think can be somewhat successful in the right situation.

I don't understand the move though.  If you want to move up, show you can dominate the level you are at.  He had a chance to prove something against some fine players.  Go bang with Landon Gamble for 40 minutes.  You hang in there with him, you might be good enough to move up.  Now, he won't get the chance.  That hurts his overall potential value.

[CCIWchamps]

I know that there are people who read this board who think that my friendship with Bosko Djurickovic taints my judgment of the man, but what you're suggesting makes absolutely no sense, CCIWchamps. Why on earth would Bosko utter such a calumny about Luke Johnson to a member of the media, especially to a reporter from the daily paper in Kenosha? Nothing but bad things could come from that. His players would know that he was telling a lie about Johnson, because they lived and traveled and dressed and practiced and played with Johnson and they know his situation and his aspirations better than anyone. Would you want to keep playing for a coach who told a lie to a member of the press and smeared one of your peers? Word would get out immediately that Bosko had concocted a malicious and untrue accusation in the press about a player that had quit his team, and he'd probably be in hot water with the school because of it. For sure it would damage his reputation and his ability to recruit. Bosko's a complex man who has his faults, just like the rest of us, but he's neither a slanderer nor an idiot.

His statement should be taken at face value, because, as Bob and Mark have already attested, there are lots of Luke Johnsons out there -- kids who think that they're better at basketball than they really are, and who spurn small-college teams because they believe that they can do as well or better at a higher level. This sort of thinking happens sometimes with players who are already at a small college, but it most often manifests itself on the recruiting trail, where it seems as though every other kid out there refuses to commit to a D3 until the last minute because he thinks that there will be a scholarship from a big school forthcoming for him -- or he turns down the D2 offer because he thinks he's a D1 player, or he turns down the low major D1 because he thinks he's Big Ten or ACC material. And lots of 'em -- waaaaay too many of them -- think that they're going to be playing in the NBA someday.

What Bosko described with regard to Luke Johnson is commonplace. There's no reason whatsoever to gainsay what Bosko said in the Kenosha News.

(And, yes, there are D3 players who think that they're going to play in the NBA someday. Sad, but true. At least Luke Johnson was pragmatic enough about his aspiration to do something constructive about it by leaving Carthage to seek a level of college ball more conducive to getting himself noticed by NBA scouts. I seriously doubt that it'll work for him -- as others have said, he's a soft 6'9, 230 outside shooter who shies away from contact under the basket and who has no ball-handling skills -- and I suspect that he'll either end up as a peripheral player at a low D1, or wise up and finish out his career at a different small school, or else give up on basketball entirely. But he's not an outlier. As Bosko said, there's a lot of young men today who have outsized and unrealistic expectations of themselves with regard to basketball.)

I wasn't trying to smear Bosko and understand that him saying it like that would make no sense.  But somehow that made about as much sense as a D3 guy considering himself NBA-caliber, you know?  I didn't realize this happened that often in D3, but what you guys wrote made sense.  I feel bad enough for kids who are #7 of the depth chart on D1 programs that think they'll make the NBA and don't.  So to imagine a D3 kid living in that mindset is just too bad.   

[Gregory Sager]

I know that there are people who read this board who think that my friendship with Bosko Djurickovic taints my judgment of the man, but what you're suggesting makes absolutely no sense, CCIWchamps. Why on earth would Bosko utter such a calumny about Luke Johnson to a member of the media, especially to a reporter from the daily paper in Kenosha? Nothing but bad things could come from that. His players would know that he was telling a lie about Johnson, because they lived and traveled and dressed and practiced and played with Johnson and they know his situation and his aspirations better than anyone. Would you want to keep playing for a coach who told a lie to a member of the press and smeared one of your peers? Word would get out immediately that Bosko had concocted a malicious and untrue accusation in the press about a player that had quit his team, and he'd probably be in hot water with the school because of it. For sure it would damage his reputation and his ability to recruit. Bosko's a complex man who has his faults, just like the rest of us, but he's neither a slanderer nor an idiot.

His statement should be taken at face value, because, as Bob and Mark have already attested, there are lots of Luke Johnsons out there -- kids who think that they're better at basketball than they really are, and who spurn small-college teams because they believe that they can do as well or better at a higher level. This sort of thinking happens sometimes with players who are already at a small college, but it most often manifests itself on the recruiting trail, where it seems as though every other kid out there refuses to commit to a D3 until the last minute because he thinks that there will be a scholarship from a big school forthcoming for him -- or he turns down the D2 offer because he thinks he's a D1 player, or he turns down the low major D1 because he thinks he's Big Ten or ACC material. And lots of 'em -- waaaaay too many of them -- think that they're going to be playing in the NBA someday.

What Bosko described with regard to Luke Johnson is commonplace. There's no reason whatsoever to gainsay what Bosko said in the Kenosha News.

(And, yes, there are D3 players who think that they're going to play in the NBA someday. Sad, but true. At least Luke Johnson was pragmatic enough about his aspiration to do something constructive about it by leaving Carthage to seek a level of college ball more conducive to getting himself noticed by NBA scouts. I seriously doubt that it'll work for him -- as others have said, he's a soft 6'9, 230 outside shooter who shies away from contact under the basket and who has no ball-handling skills -- and I suspect that he'll either end up as a peripheral player at a low D1, or wise up and finish out his career at a different small school, or else give up on basketball entirely. But he's not an outlier. As Bosko said, there's a lot of young men today who have outsized and unrealistic expectations of themselves with regard to basketball.)

I wasn't trying to smear Bosko and understand that him saying it like that would make no sense.  But somehow that made about as much sense as a D3 guy considering himself NBA-caliber, you know?  I didn't realize this happened that often in D3, but what you guys wrote made sense.  I feel bad enough for kids who are #7 of the depth chart on D1 programs that think they'll make the NBA and don't.  So to imagine a D3 kid living in that mindset is just too bad.

I understood where you're coming from. I just think that a lot of fans aren't aware of how puffed-up so many young basketball players are nowadays, and, as Mark said, how AAU ball is the guilty party behind a lot of that. (The internet and YouTube aren't helping with regard to swollen young egos and unrealistic expectations, either.)

[markerickson]

And we also know that kids end up on DI squads who really shouldn't be there.  Maybe Mr. Johnson will end up at EIU or Chicago State.

The Hamline stock photo on the front page reminds me of the "crowd" at North Park games these days.