MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[spencer1988]

I realize that the horse is dead in regards to this subject but I have not been on the site for a week and am just getting to some of these posts.  It is clear that Grey is one of the more immature coaches I have ever seen at any level.  It is one thing to be competitive but a whole different thing to not shake a 20 year olds hand while he is trying to apologize and to yell at officials from the stands during a JV game and I could name some other incidents that did not involve the heat of the battle behavior.

Q, I appreciate you putting this on the post on behalf of someone from Augustana but I don't believe it for a second.  I know there are plenty of people at the university who are embarrassed by his behavior and are put in a position to  make excuses but it is getting to to be awfully challenging for them rationalize his behavior.  I am waiting for the time when someone in the administration has the guts to say enough is enough.

I appreciate Augustana fans loyalty to his school but I am not sure he really would want his football coaches to behave like Grey just to get back to their glory days of football.  The reality is that Coach Reade never behaved like this and we were incredibly successful.  Grey has had some success during the regular season but I can't help believe that his antics wear thin on his players and this is why they have had such poor success in the NCAA tournaments.

I hope I don't stir up a whole new discussion on this but wanted to get my opinion out there. 

I received an e-mail tonight from someone close to the Augustana program who said that Coach G did not say anything to provoke Victor's reaction after that made 3-pointer early in the game.  Since I watched the game from the comfort of my basement in Lincoln, Nebraska, I have no way at all to sort out the truth.  Just wanted to post that other side of the story to be fair, and out of respect for the person who e-mailed me.

[John Gleich]

Possessions per game
1. Wheaton: 71.2
2. Millikin: 70.9
3. Illinois Wesleyan: 70.2
4. Carthage: 70.1
5. Elmhurst: 69.9
6. North Park: 66.5
7. North Central: 65.7
8. Augustana: 64.0


(who plays the fastest, who the slowest)

This is just offensive possessions, right? Total possessions would actually be (approximately) 2x this number? So the difference between Wheaton and Augustana wouldn't be 7 possessions per game, it would be 7 OFFENSIVE possessions per game, and 14 possessions total?

It's sort of just semantics, but a team can really drive up the number of offensive possessions they get if they can speed up their opponent. Take Grinnell for example. Very rare is their opponents' possession that makes it very deep in the shot clock because, once a team breaks the press, they can get a relatively open layup.

Because of such, Grinnell gets the ball back quicker and they're able to jack up shots sooner.

When I was in college, we played Puget Sound in a couple of the years where they were playing very up tempo and scoring over 100 points per game (right behind Grinnell and at-the-time-System-running Redlands). Coach Bennett used to say that you took the shots that the defense makes you take... it's open, relatively early in the shot clock (perhaps much earlier than you're used to shooting, for a typically patient offensive team) and you need to make it count. If you pull the ball out and try to run offense, the press that you had beaten catches up and it becomes very difficult to score.

All of that is to say... that there are multiple factors going into the "possessions" idea, and it isn't just how patient a team is when they're on offense.

[Titan Q]

This is just offensive possessions, right? Total possessions would actually be (approximately) 2x this number? So the difference between Wheaton and Augustana wouldn't be 7 possessions per game, it would be 7 OFFENSIVE possessions per game, and 14 possessions total?

Correct.  Here are total possessions per game (the team + opponent)...

1. Millikin: 144.6
2. Illinois Wesleyan: 141.1
3. Elmhurst: 140.1
4. Wheaton: 141.0
5. Carthage: 138.9
6. North Park: 132.2
7. North Central: 131.6
8. Augustana: 127.5

[Kovo]

This is just offensive possessions, right? Total possessions would actually be (approximately) 2x this number? So the difference between Wheaton and Augustana wouldn't be 7 possessions per game, it would be 7 OFFENSIVE possessions per game, and 14 possessions total?

Correct.  Here are total possessions per game (the team + opponent)...

1. Millikin: 144.6
2. Illinois Wesleyan: 141.1
3. Elmhurst: 140.1
4. Wheaton: 141.0
5. Carthage: 138.9
6. North Park: 132.2
7. North Central: 131.6
8. Augustana: 127.5

So what can we conclude?  The teams at 7th and 8th (NC & AC) are a combined 26-4, while the team in the 1st position is 7-8.  Is the point that teams that play good defense and force teams to slow the game are more successful?  I welcome everyone's thoughts (particularly since I am an old ABA fan who enjoys a nice 138-126 contest).

[unanimous22]

Not surprisingly, opponents are trying to slow down Wheaton's offense.  I was really surprised to see 3 such high scorers when Q posted the in-conference averages. 

[sac]

This is just offensive possessions, right? Total possessions would actually be (approximately) 2x this number? So the difference between Wheaton and Augustana wouldn't be 7 possessions per game, it would be 7 OFFENSIVE possessions per game, and 14 possessions total?

Correct.  Here are total possessions per game (the team + opponent)...

1. Millikin: 144.6
2. Illinois Wesleyan: 141.1
3. Elmhurst: 140.1
4. Wheaton: 141.0
5. Carthage: 138.9
6. North Park: 132.2
7. North Central: 131.6
8. Augustana: 127.5

The Midwest baseline comparison for slowest is always Wisconsin, this year they're at 125.6 possessions in their games.  Which is actually higher than normal for them.

Millikin's 144 really isn't "fast", its much closer to normal for D3.  Fast without playing the "system" is Whitman or Concordia, Tx who are around the 170's.

Grinnell games are almost always around 200.

[Titan Q]

IWU @ North Park, 7:30pm...

(CCIW-only stats)

Illinois Wesleyan (12-3, 4-0)
G - Dylan Overstreet, 6-3/180 So - 7.0 ppg, 3.3 apg, 6.5 apg, 3.3 A/TO
G - Pat Sodemann, 6-3/190 So - 13.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 0.5 apg
F - Andrew Ziemnik, 6-4/230 Jr -  6.5 ppg, 5.5 rpg
F - Victor Davis, 6-5/235 Jr -  10.5 ppg, 5.5 rpg
F - Kevin Reed, 6-6/230 Sr - 8.3 ppg, 4.5 rpg

G - Brady Zimmer, 6-4/180 Jr - 15.8 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 1.8 apg
F - Mike Mayberger, 6-6/220 Jr - 5.4 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 1.3 apg
C - Nick Anderson, 6-9/220 Jr -  3.5 ppg, 2.0 rpg


North Park (6-9, 1-3)
G - Cameron Burnett, 5-5/135 Fr - 2.5 ppg, 0.0 rpg. 0.5 apg, 1.0 A/TO
G - Zach Cassita, 6-2/190 Sr - 7.3 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 3.0 apg,
G - Ryan Hyrn, 5-11/155 Fr - 7.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg
G - Chris Benjamin, 6-2/205 Fr - 6.8 ppg, 3.8 rpg
F - Mark Holmes, 6-6/210 Sr - 12.5 ppg, 6.0 rpg

G - Aaron Weaver, 6-6/200 Jr - 14.0 ppg, 6.3 rpg
F - Maxwell Morgan, 6-3/190 Jr - 3.0 ppg, 1.7 rpg
G - Brett Peterson, 6-1/190 Sr - 1.3 ppg, 2.0 rpg


Pantagraph: http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-wesleyan/iwu-men-s-coach-knows-playing-at-north-park-can/article_dfe499f2-5f89-11e2-b7f6-0019bb2963f4.html

Video: http://www.northpark.edu/Events/Live-Events

Live Stats: http://www.sidearmstats.com/nparku/mbball/scoreboard.aspx

WJBC: http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/wjbc.portal#

Massey predicts: IWU 74 North Park 61 (IWU #11, NPU #234) - http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&yr=2013&sub=11620

[Titan Q]

Greg, is Rodney Clarke no longer with North Park's basketball team?  Looks like he has been a key reserve, averaging 11 min/g in CCIW play and 4.5 ppg.   He played Saturday @ Elmhurst but I don't see him on the roster...

http://athletics.northpark.edu/roster.aspx?path=mbball&tab=basketball

Thanks.

[Titan Q]

I'm taking the little lady to watch her alma mater (Purdue) play the Cornhuskers tonight.  Hopefully I can follow things on my phone!

[NCF]

I'm taking the little lady to watch her alma mater (Purdue) play the Cornhuskers tonight.  Hopefully I can follow things on my phone!

BOILER UP!!!!!!!

[Titan Q]

So what can we conclude?  The teams at 7th and 8th (NC & AC) are a combined 26-4, while the team in the 1st position is 7-8.  Is the point that teams that play good defense and force teams to slow the game are more successful? 

I don't think that's the case, Kovo86.  There are successful fast-paced teams and successful slow-paced teams.  The key, is my opinion, is efficiency on both ends of the floor...

Efficiency numbers for CCIW play, through 4 games...

Offensive Points per 100 Possessions
1. Illinois Wesleyan: 110
2. Wheaton: 105
3. Augustana: 103
4. Millikin: 101
5. North Central: 96
6. North Park: 90
7. Carthage: 87
8. Elmhurst: 86

Opponent Points per 100 Possessions
1. North Central: 82
2. Illinois Wesleyan: 90
3. Augustana: 91
4. Millikin: 95
5. Wheaton: 98
6. Carthage: 100
7. Elmhurst: 108
8. North Park: 113

Differential per 100 Possessions
1. Illinois Wesleyan: +20
2. North Central: +14
3. Augustana: +12
4. Wheaton: +7
5. Millikin: +6
6. Carthage: -13
7. Elmhurst: -22
8. North Park: -23

Regardless of pace, I think it all comes down to:

- How efficient are you in scoring points?
- How efficient are you in stopping the other team from scoring points?
- What does it look like when you put both of those together (considering that you win by scoring more points than the opponent.)

I believe that efficiency numbers are the best way to measure overall team offense and defense - much better than things like PPG and FG %.

Note, the numbers above only take 4 CCIW games into account - not really enough data to make firm conclusions about CCIW teams.  After 7 I believe these become much more credible.

[Titan Q]

Nice story about an NBA star and a former CCIW player...

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/01/14/iguodala-dribbles-to-stop-diabetes/

[CCIWchamps]

Nice story about an NBA star and a former CCIW player...

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/01/14/iguodala-dribbles-to-stop-diabetes/

CCIW player...?

[bopol]

Nice story about an NBA star and a former CCIW player...

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/01/14/iguodala-dribbles-to-stop-diabetes/

CCIW player...?

Mike McGraw.  The CCIW player is different then the NBA star.

[Gregory Sager]

There are three new Vikings on the roster for NPU. Two of them are freshmen who've just enrolled at North Park at semester break: Michael Hutchinson, a 6'3, 210 forward from Marian Catholic whom I don't think will see much varsity action, if any; and Tyrone Coleman, a freshman from Metea Valley out in the far western suburbs who's listed at 6'5, 175 but is probably more like 6'4, 160. Dude is seriously skinny, but Tom Slyder likes his game, so he may see some varsity tick at some point. He was a very good cross-country runner in high school as well as a basketball player, so he can certainly run fast and run long.

The third newbie is Paul Brown, who just finished his fourth and final year as a Vikings gridder this past fall. He thus hasn't played organized basketball since his senior year at Luther North (2008-09), but, given the total absence of anybody on the NPU roster who can even remotely be considered a banger, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get some playing time. His posted dimensions are amusing; he's listed at 6'4, 250 on the basketball roster, but he was listed at 6'3, 210 on this year's football roster. I can guarantee that his football listing is much closer to being accurate. At any rate, no matter what size he is, the NPU coaching staff is glad to have him on board.

It's all part of Tom Slyder's throw-it-at-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks strategy. Having to hastily assemble a team from Memorial Day onward out of overlooked recent high-school grads, late transfers, and guys who've been out of the game for awhile, all because your predecessor left you very little in the cupboard, is not what most coaches have in mind when they take a job, but that's the reality of the situation at Foster & Kedzie. If Cameron Burnett and any of the three new players just added can contribute something positive to this Frankenstein's monster of a team that Tom and his staff have constructed out of spare parts, then it's all good. If one or more of them can turn into genuine long-term CCIW-level players, which is what a guy like Chris Benjamin appears to be, then it's even better.

Speaking of the NPU coaching staff, it's been augmented with a new graduate assistant this semester. Ryan Bigelow is a Central Michigan grad who spent some time as a student assistant at his alma mater, did some high-school coaching in Michigan, was the dobo at Colgate, and most recently was an assistant coach at Roosevelt. Welcome to the Park, Ryan!