MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

"Slightly" off topic, but does anyone know the origin of the term "Green Weenies."  Wasn't sure how long this has been around - I'm told years, but that's an inexact number....

I'm not sure about the origin. I just picked up on the term in the CCIW football room a few years ago. Some Wesleyan people might take it as disrespectful. I personally use it as a form or endearment. Its just a nickname. Its no big deal. Just like when Wheaton fans call North Central South DuPage or SoDuP. 

Perhaps a Weenie could shed more light on the mystery. 

[Gregory Sager]

Last night's game pretty much went according to form. NPU was never anything better than a longshot going into the night, and once it was discovered that Aaron Weaver wouldn't be suiting up, the blue-and-gold goose was cooked for sure. But the Vikings did make it interesting for awhile in the second half -- which made the final outcome all the more frustrating.

After getting absolutely pounded on the boards and, I must say, outhustled as well throughout almost the entire first half, the Park was lucky to only be down 15 at intermission. But the Vikes caught a spark in the second stanza, lit mostly by a stretch of great plays by Ryan Hyrn, and whittled the Wesleyan lead down to nine at the 16:05 mark and again at the 13:18 mark. However, at that point the Vikings came unglued -- and, unfortunately, the glue came apart from circumstances that had nothing to do with actually being outplayed by the visitors.

First, Brett Peterson over-celebrated a blocked shot on Dylan Overstreet at the 12:51 mark. Brett says he didn't say anything, but Eric Anderson said he did -- and Eric Anderson wore black and white stripes and came equipped with a whistle, so he won that argument. Technical foul, two made FTs by Brady Zimmer. A minute and a half later, at the 11:11 mark, while Tom Slyder was disputing a call with one of the refs, he called a timeout. He turned his back to the floor, walked into the forming NPU huddle to give instruction -- and was promptly followed into the huddle by the ref with whom he'd been arguing. In all my years of watching basketball, I'd never before seen a ref follow a coach into a huddle in order to continue an argument. He just stood there for a moment, right behind Tom, and when Tom swung around and said, in an annoyed voice, "I'm coaching my team!", he got T'ed up. It was a ridiculous and immature technical assessed by a control-freak ref who obviously doesn't agree that an official's place is to stand outside of a team's huddle and let a coach direct his team before resuming his discussion with said coach.

These two techs completely blunted NPU's momentum, and IWU promptly took charge of the game from that point onward, going on a 13-3 spurt that for all intents and purposes ended the game. It really wouldn't have mattered in the long run, because I simply can't imagine NPU being able to sustain that momentum for over ten more minutes against a clearly superior opponent. But it would've been nice if that momentum had been lost in a more genuine, flow-of-play fashion, because at least the Vikes would've gone down fighting.

The one category in which NPU actually came out ahead in last night's game was turnovers, which surprised me. NPU only coughed up the ball 12 times, two below the team's season average, while the Titans turned it over 16 times. Some of it came from Wesleyan's desire to run after grabbing one of the eight thousand or so defensive rebounds it hauled in, but that doesn't explain Dylan Overstreet's six turnovers. He's a good player, but he's no finished product at point guard.

Ryan Hyrn had a solid game for the Vikings, scoring 14 points. He was 3-6 from downtown, but on a couple of occasions the rather frail-looking Hyrn actually waded into traffic and took a hit while trying to get to the basket. I thought it was a positive sign from a kid whom I'd already marked down as a mere spot-up shooter, although I'm sure that his loved ones cringed at the sight if they were watching our webcast. Mark Holmes, who was bounced around like a pinball by the bulkier interior players of the Titans, scored a dozen, as did Chris Benjamin. Zach Cassita had a tough night in which he, like Holmes, really tried to do too much for the Weaver-less Vikings, although Cassita did end up with 10 points. Cameron Burnett had a nice night as a distributor -- how great is it to see a point guard on the floor again for NPU who is an actual point guard by training? -- as he dished out five dimes to only one turnover. His size did prove to be a handicap defensively, but he's certainly not alone among the Vikings in that respect.

[Gregory Sager]

Was just about to head out to the NPark/IWU game when I saw the post about the uniforms.  Hmm, maybe I will delay my trip by 15 minutes.

I think I caught one Titans game last year at North Central, this will be my first of 2012/13.  But it does seem like every time I head out to Kedzie & Foster that North Park has some weird surprise in for IWU.

"North Park has some weird surprise in for IWU"? Give me a freakin' break. Whose team caused an 80-minute delay to the start of the game because it forgot its' uniforms? Your team, not mine.

How does a team forget their uniforms? I could understand a player forgetting a uniform (though not really... you always pack your back, check, double check, and check your neighbor's bag), but a whole team?

Someone associated with IWU's basketball team - I'm not sure who is in charge of the uniforms - made an enormous mistake today.  An unfortunate and embarrassing situation.  The Zimmers had to turn around on I-55 and go back to the Shirk to get the uniforms for pete's sake. 

Knowing Ron Rose, I'm sure he apologized profusely to North Park personnel tonight.  I'll bet he felt awful.

I'm sure that they felt bad... and it really is an unfortunate situation.

The procedure just struck me as odd, since we always got our uni's before we left and packed our own bags.

I always thought that that's how every team did it, John.

Knowing Ron Rose, I'm sure he apologized profusely to North Park personnel tonight.  I'll bet he felt awful.

He bore some responsibility for the debacle, too, Bob -- and not simply because of the Titans' team policy of keeping all of the unis together during travel. Now, please understand that I'm not on a Ron Rose witchhunt, nor am I looking for a scapegoat. While I've never met Ron Rose personally, everyone I know who knows him attests that he is a great guy. But he was offered the use of NPU's road uniforms last night by Tom Slyder in order to facilitate getting the game started and finished by a reasonable hour ... and Ron Rose turned that offer down.

Pretty disappointed in the way the game/uniform situation was handled last night.  I show up at NPark around 7:20 and buy a ticket.  There was absolutely no mention that the game was going to be delayed over an hour.  I got up and left.

I guess that nobody ever told you that patience is a virtue, because NPU's sports information director Kevin Shepke and p.a. announcer Tim Dykes made repeated announcements over the gym's public address system -- I'd say an announcement about every ten to fifteen minutes -- that the game was delayed because Illinois Wesleyan had left its' uniforms back in Bloomington and was in the process of retrieving them. If you'd have simply waited a few minutes, you would've heard the announcement, too.

I'm also baffled that you never: a) asked somebody why the game was delayed; or b) overheard somebody talking about it, since it was the main topic of conversation in the crackerbox before the uniforms actually arrived.

And while you were sitting there in the stands staring at the empty court, did it occur to you to ask anyone what the delay was? Or to request your money back upon leaving? 

Precisely. NPU would've been more than happy to give you your money back upon request, unanimous22.

[AndOne]

Could NPU have said they wouldn't wait and forced IWU to forfeit?

An interesting question to be sure.
However, in the spirit of brotherly love between members of the CCIW "family" I sense, even if possible from a "legal" standpoint, you would not see such a harsh penalty requested by the prosecuting attorney. Perhaps NPU could have asked for a 20 point "head start" penalty under the mantle of pain and suffering over the wait and the disruption of their other planned activities and schedule for the evening. 

[clemac]

I know from personal experience that the Green Weenies name was around in the 70's.

[thunder38]

Wheaton 86
Augustana 67

http://www.augustana.edu/athletics/mbasketball/stats/2012-13/13mbb16.htm

The jumpers were falling tonight.  11-15 beyond the arc.  27-42 from the floor overall.   

Wheaton played most of the game without Tyler Peters who played only 13 min due to foul trouble.  My guess is if the game was closer, Schauer would've tried to get him more minutes, but Wheaton kept expanding the lead with him on the bench.  There were 49 fouls called in the game.  It seemed like every play just had to have a whistle. 

Michael Kvam had 21
Brayden Teuscher had 19

Ben Ryan had 17 for Augie.

Wow.

Huge win for Wheaton on the road which puts Augustana in a bad spot.  Suspect Coach G's coat came off very early last night

The coat came off with 15:43 left in the first half last night. In all fairness it was toasty at Carver.

And how far it did it fly?

Noticed that in conjunction with Augie's record, attendance in Rock Island seems down. Only 421 attended last night's game. Attendance at the 3 previous games was 517, 321, and 323. Maybe Grey needs to replace his jacket toss, stomp/stomp/stomp, and wave off act with a new repertoire? 

A very disappointing coat toss from Grey as I think it only dropped harmlessly in the first or second row so roughly 8-10 not so happy feet.

I was also very surprised at the attendance (or lack thereof) last night in Rock Island. There were only about 10 students standing down on the floor making noise and then a handful of other students sitting quietly behind them. I can't remember another time that a Wheaton/Augie game has been so poorly attended especially by the students. Very disappointing for a young team that's been playing so well.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I know from personal experience that the Green Weenies name was around in the 70's.

I'd forgotten, but now that you mention it, I think I heard it when I was there in the late 60s.  Perhaps iwu70 can confirm or deny?

[Gregory Sager]

Could NPU have said they wouldn't wait and forced IWU to forfeit?

An interesting question to be sure.

Unfortunately, it's one that isn't really clarified by the NCAA rulebook. I've read through all of the pertinent sections today, and there's absolutely no provision for covering this. My guess is that it would be a conference issue rather than an NCAA issue, since more than anything else it really comes down to a matter of scheduling.

However, in the spirit of brotherly love between members of the CCIW "family" I sense, even if possible from a "legal" standpoint, you would not see such a harsh penalty requested by the prosecuting attorney. Perhaps NPU could have asked for a 20 point "head start" penalty under the mantle of pain and suffering over the wait and the disruption of their other planned activities and schedule for the evening. 

I'm sure that most of the pain and suffering caused by the delay was borne by IWU's gray-haired fan base, most of whom have probably not had to stay awake that far past their bedtime in years.

The 20-point head-start penalty's an interesting idea ... but the unfortunate truth is that Wesleyan would've overcome the deficit and won the game, anyway. And that would've been far more embarrassing for the Park than the actual final outcome turned out to be.

(I suggested to NPU assistant coach Kevin Holmes that next fall the CCIW should assess a five-yard delay-of-game penalty to the Titans on their first possession of the NPU vs. IWU football game. Wouldn't ultimately help the Vikings gridders any more than a 20-point head start would've helped the Vikings cagers, but a delay-of-game penalty seems more appropriate for that sport. )

In all seriousness, the idea of a forfeit never really seemed to enter the minds of anybody on the NPU athletic staff or the school administration. Hence, the good-faith gesture to offer Ron Rose the use of NPU's blue road uniforms. I can't imagine any CCIW school being so draconian as to try to wangle a forfeit victory out of what was an honest and correctable mistake.

[Titan Q]

Updated CCIW efficiency numbers through Wednesday 1/16 (stats through 5 CCIW games)...

Offense (points per 100 possessions)
1. Illinois Wesleyan, 111.0
2. Wheaton, 109.0
3. Augustana, 101.9
4. North Central, 98.4
5. Millikin, 96.1
6. North Park, 88.1
7. Carthage, 87.1
8. Elmhurst, 85.5

Defense (opponent points per 100 possessions)
1. North Central, 80.1
2. Illinois Wesleyan, 88.8
3. Carthage, 95.8
4. Millikin, 97.7
5. Wheaton, 97.8
6. Augustana, 98.7
7. Elmhurst, 103.9
8. North Park, 113.8

Differential per 100 possessions
1. Illinois Wesleyan, +22.2
2. North Central, +18.3
3. Wheaton, +11.2
4. Augustana, +3.2
5. Millikin, -1.5
6. Carthage, -8.7
7. Elmhurst, -18.4
8. North Park, -25.7

Total possessions per game (team + opponent)
1. Elmhurst, 142.0
2. Illinois Wesleyan, 141.9
3. Carthage, 140.9
4. Wheaton, 140.0
5. Millikin, 139.9
6. North Park, 134.9
7. North Central, 129.6
8. Augustana, 129.2

[AndOne]

Last night's game pretty much went according to form. NPU was never anything better than a longshot going into the night, and once it was discovered that Aaron Weaver wouldn't be suiting up, the blue-and-gold goose was cooked for sure.

And further investigation into the matter reveals that the cause of Mr. Weaver's absence was___________________________________?
And his anticipated date of return to work is____________________?

[toooldtohoop]

Last night's game pretty much went according to form. NPU was never anything better than a longshot going into the night, and once it was discovered that Aaron Weaver wouldn't be suiting up, the blue-and-gold goose was cooked for sure. But the Vikings did make it interesting for awhile in the second half -- which made the final outcome all the more frustrating.

After getting absolutely pounded on the boards and, I must say, outhustled as well throughout almost the entire first half, the Park was lucky to only be down 15 at intermission. But the Vikes caught a spark in the second stanza, lit mostly by a stretch of great plays by Ryan Hyrn, and whittled the Wesleyan lead down to nine at the 16:05 mark and again at the 13:18 mark. However, at that point the Vikings came unglued -- and, unfortunately, the glue came apart from circumstances that had nothing to do with actually being outplayed by the visitors.

First, Brett Peterson over-celebrated a blocked shot on Dylan Overstreet at the 12:51 mark. Brett says he didn't say anything, but Eric Anderson said he did -- and Eric Anderson wore black and white stripes and came equipped with a whistle, so he won that argument. Technical foul, two made FTs by Brady Zimmer. A minute and a half later, at the 11:11 mark, while Tom Slyder was disputing a call with one of the refs, he called a timeout. He turned his back to the floor, walked into the forming NPU huddle to give instruction -- and was promptly followed into the huddle by the ref with whom he'd been arguing. In all my years of watching basketball, I'd never before seen a ref follow a coach into a huddle in order to continue an argument. He just stood there for a moment, right behind Tom, and when Tom swung around and said, in an annoyed voice, "I'm coaching my team!", he got T'ed up. It was a ridiculous and immature technical assessed by a control-freak ref who obviously doesn't agree that an official's place is to stand outside of a team's huddle and let a coach direct his team before resuming his discussion with said coach.

These two techs completely blunted NPU's momentum, and IWU promptly took charge of the game from that point onward, going on a 13-3 spurt that for all intents and purposes ended the game. It really wouldn't have mattered in the long run, because I simply can't imagine NPU being able to sustain that momentum for over ten more minutes against a clearly superior opponent. But it would've been nice if that momentum had been lost in a more genuine, flow-of-play fashion, because at least the Vikes would've gone down fighting.

The one category in which NPU actually came out ahead in last night's game was turnovers, which surprised me. NPU only coughed up the ball 12 times, two below the team's season average, while the Titans turned it over 16 times. Some of it came from Wesleyan's desire to run after grabbing one of the eight thousand or so defensive rebounds it hauled in, but that doesn't explain Dylan Overstreet's six turnovers. He's a good player, but he's no finished product at point guard.

Ryan Hyrn had a solid game for the Vikings, scoring 14 points. He was 3-6 from downtown, but on a couple of occasions the rather frail-looking Hyrn actually waded into traffic and took a hit while trying to get to the basket. I thought it was a positive sign from a kid whom I'd already marked down as a mere spot-up shooter, although I'm sure that his loved ones cringed at the sight if they were watching our webcast. Mark Holmes, who was bounced around like a pinball by the bulkier interior players of the Titans, scored a dozen, as did Chris Benjamin. Zach Cassita had a tough night in which he, like Holmes, really tried to do too much for the Weaver-less Vikings, although Cassita did end up with 10 points. Cameron Burnett had a nice night as a distributor -- how great is it to see a point guard on the floor again for NPU who is an actual point guard by training? -- as he dished out five dimes to only one turnover. His size did prove to be a handicap defensively, but he's certainly not alone among the Vikings in that respect.

something that I have been curious about as a newbie....

there are games that are called close, and games when players are allowed "to play".  both situations definitely subjective.  home/away interpretations can vary, but sometimes the guys are beating the heck out of each other (wheaton vs nc) and other games when a tap is a foul.  we have all seen it.  I thought that non-con games might be called differently, but that once conference competition began, that there would be at least a relative standardization of officiating.  I have not seen that yet.
Additionally, I see officials as Sager states, who venture into team conversations that they should not be part of, and display ego and clear agenda.

So...has something changed?  Those of you that have watched this conference for years....are you seeing a difference, or am I  too old?

[veterancciwfan]

Regarding the officials at the NPU/IWU game: Eric Anderson was one of them and, in my opinion, is one of the best CCIW officials. I didn't recognize the other 2 and the NPU program didn't list them.

Regarding the term "Green Weenies". It was a tag I think Millikin fans came up with in the 50s when the IWU and Millikin rivarly was intense. During the playing of the National Anthem at Griswold when Sikma and Gobczynski were playing, the MU students cascaded the IWU players with green hot dogs and it continued until the song was finished. My young sons thought it was horrible.  As I remember, MU fans burned a big M on the Wilder Field 50 yard line on a Friday night before the MU/IWU game in Bloom'ton. I think that ocurred in the 60s. To show how deep that rivarly was, IWU played Millikin in Decatur in the final CCIW game of the 87-88 season for the championship. The attendance was well over 4,000, maybe closer to 5,000. On the same night, ISU played SIU in Carbondale before a smaller crowd.   

[Gregory Sager]

Regarding the officials at the NPU/IWU game: Eric Anderson was one of them and, in my opinion, is one of the best CCIW officials. I didn't recognize the other 2 and the NPU program didn't list them.

I think Eric Anderson generally does a fine job. I'm agnostic on the issue of whether that was a good call or not with regard to the Peterson technical, because it's his word against Brett's, and I was not close enough to be in a position to judge who said what, or didn't say what.

The other two refs were Dan Kusinski, whom I've seen do a number of CCIW games over the years (he was the bald, short guy), and Andy Bole.

I'm not aware that game programs at any CCIW schools list the referees. I certainly haven't seen that at any of the CCIW gyms I've been in in recent years, although perhaps Illinois Wesleyan is able to get the names of the assigned refs far enough ahead of time to print them in the program. Sometimes p.a. announcers inform the crowd of who is officiating a contest, sometimes they don't. In terms of basketball, the refs are supposed to sign their names in the scorebook when they go over the lineups ten minutes before game time, and that's usually when the scorer's table becomes aware of their identities. Many schools then list the names of the officials on the box score. NPU's Kevin Shepke always does this; for example, he listed the names of Anderson, Bole, and Kusinski in last night's box score.

[Titan Q]

Good interview by Dave McHugh on Hoopsville tonight with national committee chair Mike DeWitt (head coach at Ohio Wesleyan).  It starts at about the 25:00 mark...

http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2012-13/jan17


Definitely worth the time if you're serious about understanding how the selection process works.

Mike DeWitt is one of the real good guys around Division III.  Having guys like this heading up the process should create a lot of confidence. 

[voiceofseason]

Regarding the officials at the NPU/IWU game: Eric Anderson was one of them and, in my opinion, is one of the best CCIW officials. I didn't recognize the other 2 and the NPU program didn't list them.

Regarding the term "Green Weenies". It was a tag I think Millikin fans came up with in the 50s when the IWU and Millikin rivarly was intense. During the playing of the National Anthem at Griswold when Sikma and Gobczynski were playing, the MU students cascaded the IWU players with green hot dogs and it continued until the song was finished. My young sons thought it was horrible.  As I remember, MU fans burned a big M on the Wilder Field 50 yard line on a Friday night before the MU/IWU game in Bloom'ton. I think that ocurred in the 60s. To show how deep that rivarly was, IWU played Millikin in Decatur in the final CCIW game of the 87-88 season for the championship. The attendance was well over 4,000, maybe closer to 5,000. On the same night, ISU played SIU in Carbondale before a smaller crowd.

Thanks for the information on the Green Weenies!