MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[John Gleich]

Why even refer to the one and done?  He sucked as a coach and recruiter.

... Perhaps because his last name was pronounced differently than it appeared? And that's what was being discussed?   

[NCF]

NCF, the way it sounds, with all the injuries to the Cards, there is probably room on the bus. I think it should be a very good game

Hahaha but I'll take a  pass on the bus. I agree, it should b a very good game.

[devildog29]

Not suitable language for children or Wheaton fans.

Ha!  Sorry, kinda rude of me to just jump in on a Wheaton jab and contribute zero to the board, but I most definitely giggled out loud on that. 

[AndOne]

North Central 69
North Park 61

Mark Holmes: 15 pts
Zach Cassita: 13 pts, 4 asts
Ryan Hyrn: 12 pts
Reggie McGee: 10 pts
Chris Benjamin: 6 rebs
Cameron Burnett: 4 asts

Derek Raridon: 18 pts
Landon Gamble: 14 pts
Jack Burchett: 13 pts, 10 rebs
Charlie Rosenberg: 11 pts
Vince Kmiec: 12 rebs

NPU had a golden opportunity today to steal an upset on the #5 team in the nation -- and in reaching for it, the Vikings tripped over their own feet.

Picture this scenario: NCC was missing two starters today, Aaron Tiknis and Brandon Williams. Then Landon Gamble rolls his ankle at the 5:16 mark of the first half, sidelining him for the remainder of the game. Then Derek Raridon picks up his fourth foul with 15:39 to go in the game. That's four out of five NCC starters who were either not dressed at all, out with an in-game injury, or sidelined by fouls -- and three-quarters of a half still left to play. As if that wasn't enough of a situation in which the Vikings had the potential upset handed to them on a silver platter, Jack Burchett -- who played a whale of a game for North Central -- picked up his fourth foul with 13:06 to go.

So, how on Earth does North Central win the game? Simple: North Park can't rebound, and North Park can't figure out how to solve a zone.

Any chance that at least part of the reason North Central won was the ability of the NC subs to step up, and just plain gut it out and do what they needed to do?
I mean somebody in red was able to get the rebounds NP couldn't get, and somebody in red had to know where to both set up and and slide over to when the Cardinals fell back into zone defensive posture.

Also, given the fact the NCC defense came into the game ranked 5th nationally in scoring defense (55.4 ppg), and 3rd nationally in field goal percentage defense (36.3%) is there any chance the Cardinals just know how to play good defense--be it man or zone?

Rather than NCC's win being virtually totally dependent on what NP couldn't/can't do as the given answer to the above original question suggests, perhaps the win had as much to do with NCC's ability to prevent those things from happening?

[sac]

C'mon AndOne as if you've never reported on a game exclusively from the NCC perspective.  Everybody does that.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Mispronouncing names is (unfortunately) commonplace, especially when someone chooses to use a less conventional version (Smythe vs. Smith) of a conventionally spelled name.  I run into this all the time in my classes when I find a student who stresses a different syllable in the name or pronounces one letter in an unexpected fashion.

The pronunciation of Wesleyan with a /z/ in place of an /s/, however, is the result of a phonological process.  The voiceless /s/ (as opposed to its voiced counterpart, /z/) is situated between two voiced phonemes, a vowel (all of which are voiced in English), and a consonant (a voiced liquid/resonant, /l/). To take this analysis a step further, how would you complete this sentence? "I had a house and bought another, so now I have two ____."  How do you pronounce the first -s-?  The point of this is that it's not surprising to hear "Wezleyan" instead of "Wesleyan," and the announcer might not even be aware of the difference.

Sure, but there is also a way to properly pronounce the names of schools like Buena Vista, Amherst, Worcester Poly, Baruch, Wooster, and others that might look like one thing to someone but are actually pronounced another way.  Just as there is a correct way to pronounce the last name of the Augie head coach ("Giovanine") that is different than what it looks.

I think if you're a somewhat serious broadcaster (I'll give student broadcasters a free pass) you have to pronounce the name of the opponent school right.

As a PA announcer and broadcaster who is guilty of getting names wrong even after I check on them, I know this can be a bone of contention. I usually check with the opposing team before a game to make sure I get it right and when I screw up and I know the team is looking at me... I make sure they see in my actions I am frustrated with my own mistake - I think that goes a long way to showing you care.

Now, I will say I wish more SIDs, especially in this day in age, would take the time to some how put a pronunciation guide online with the roster. I have run into teams with crazy names, but no help. I have run into teams with simple names... but plenty of help. And I have run into SIDs when asked ahead of time, don't know the pronunciations themselves. With more and more broadcasts and clearly more people able to tune into games (not even counting the PA aspect in this) I think having the SID do a little more deligence (or having the coaching staff help the SID) would be prudent.

Now, as for Bob's examples:
- if I screw up Wesleyan, I will hear it from my father who graduated from the Wesleyan. He has drilled that "s" into my vocabulary.
- if I screw up Amherst, same deal. He and my mother know that school very well and I have been told on a few occasions when they have tuned into a national game I am calling or Hoopsville that I need to keep that "h" silent.
- I love the Worcester Poly and Wooster example - it seems no one really realizes that those two names are pretty much pronounced the exact same way.
- Bob may remember that Buena Vista is a pain in my ---. Since I know the other pronunciations so well from Virginia and California, I am jinxed to screw that one up. I made the mistake last week of telling my producer how I would constantly screw it up and gave the example how... that on Hoopsville that night I screwed it up!!! Just remember, B-YOO and you will get it right (thanks Pat!).
- Oh and Baruch... that is just fun to say the right way.

OK... thanks for reading By the way... it isn't Mc-Cue or McQ... just to help.

[Pat Coleman]

C'mon AndOne as if you've never reported on a game exclusively from the NCC perspective.  Everybody does that.

+1. Seriously. And +1 tomorrow too.

[AndOne]

C'mon AndOne as if you've never reported on a game exclusively from the NCC perspective.  Everybody does that.

Granted sac. Most people report with emphasis on what their team did.
However, I think "exclusively" is the key word here. Also, its not often a game is played under similar circumstances, where one of the involved teams is effectively playing with 1 1/2 (Derek Raridon was about 50%) starters.
I think that makes what the subs do both a little more unexpected, and noteworthy.

* I didn't say Greg was wrong. It just seemed to me that the final result was almost solely due to what NP didn't do, as opposed to at least partially due to what NCC did do. Thats all. 

Besides, if everybody does it, why the surprise? 

[AndOne]

North Central 69
North Park 61

When Raridon came back into the game at the 12:02 mark, the Cardinals went into a zone defense and stayed there for the rest of the game in an attempt to not only protect Raridon, but to protect Burchett as well (and Charlie Rosenberg, too, eventually, as he picked up his fourth foul with four minutes and change remaining). NPU, which had been down by seven (45-38) when Raridon picked up his fourth, had whittled the lead down to one (48-47) when Raridon returned with just over twelve minutes remaining. And the Vikings never managed to either take the lead nor foul out Raridon (Burchett did eventually foul out). Mark Holmes missed a dunk with 10:52 remaining that would've put NPU in the lead and, quite possibly, would've given the Vikes the mental lift that they needed to believe in themselves. Instead, NCC rebounded the ball after it flew out to halfcourt and promptly scored the next four points. NPU would cut the lead back down to two on a couple of subsequent occasions, but the Vikes' inability to solve the NCC zone spelled their doom, as the Cards opened up the narrow lead a bit in the final minute at the FT line.

The Cards alternated between a 3-2 zone and a 2-3 zone. There are any number of ways of attacking either zone. NPU's approach seemed to be to pass the ball back and forth between the point and the wing, hoping that a magic path would open up in front of either one. It was a ridiculously passive approach by the Vikings, who, although seriously undermanned this year, at least have enough sound players to be able to capitalize on the numerous holes that either a 2-3 zone or a 3-2 zone offers. Aside from one instance in which Reggie McGee ran the baseline against the 3-2 and scored an easy layup as a result, the Vikings did nothing to attack the zone. Absolutely nothing. It was agonizing to watch.

McGee actually played quite well at both ends of the floor. Brett Peterson did everything expected of him and a little bit more. Zach Cassita had a decent game. And Cameron Burnett played well before he fouled out (alas, the little man's big problem is that other players have a tendency to not see him and to trip over him). The rest of the Vikings? Mark Holmes, Chris Benjamin, and Ryan Hyrn were a collective 2-19 from downtown, with most of those misses either coming early in the shot clock before the Vikings had had a chance to try to break down the NCC defense, or else were concession shots from outside their effective range, as though the Vikings simply didn't want to try solving the zone.

North Central, for all of its aches and pains, didn't really play all that well. The fouls were a huge problem, of course, and the two backup point guards Rourke and Merrithey both played undistinguished games. Vince Kmiec was quiet all night (although he did get to a lot of long defensive rebounds). But Burchett and Rosenberg were monsters (Burchett, a 37% FT shooter on the year, went a relatively solid 7-13 from the line tonight), and Raridon did everything that a team could ask for in spite of taking another blow to his aching shoulder that had him wincing for the rest of the game. The Cardinals remained a much bigger team, injuries or not, and were able to exploit that advantage inside (they amassed a whopping 44-24 advantage on the boards over the Park), and lucked out at the other end because NPU gagged on trying to solve NCC's zone.

* Mark Holmes missed dunk with 10:52 remaining and NP behind by only 1, was perhaps the turning point of the game. For, in addition to giving NP the lead, a successful finish would have allowed the Parkers to seize the momentum which we all know can go a very long way in propelling a team to victory.
However, rather than completing the brake away by just dribbling all the way to the basket and going up for a two-handed jam, Holmes had to have a little extra hot sauce on his dog, and took off from about half way down the lane. While airborne, he appeared to wind up as if for a windmill slam. However, the added relish only resulted in the ball clanking violently off the rim at about the two o'clock position and flying out to almost half court where the Cards corralled it.

* The Cards benefitted from the fact that Peterson played as many minutes as he did as opposed to Reggie McGee being on the court for some of those minutes. McGee looked good even during warmups before the game, and was a much more dangerous offensive force than Peterson, who the Cards could sluff off of a bit, thereby devoting more attention to NP's scorers.

* Cassita hit 2 threes very early in the game, and a 3rd trey by about the half way point of the opening stanza. Thereafter, he, for some reason, began to either pass off when he had an open shot, or to take a poor shot when he was closely guarded, off balance, or both.

* Burnett was a very positive force for NP. He brought the dimension of speed to the court, and dished out 4 helpers.

* Holmes, Benjamin, and especially Hyrn, need to remember they aren't in the NBA just yet. I understand Hyrn is a very dangerous three point shooter, but it would be a good idea for him to be inside the gym before pulling the trigger. Holmes made 6 baskets, but took 15 shots, including 0 for 6 from three, to do so. I think lobbing up long 3 point bombs from a range beyond which they can reasonably be expected to find their target has historically been one of NP's problem points.

* Pat Rourke and Jack Merrithey may have played "undistinguished" games, but they effectively ran the offense, and hit a total of 5 FTs at important and late junctures of the game to help cement the victory.

* NCC SG Vince Kmiec was quiet offensively, but pulled down a game high 12 rebounds.

* Charlie Rosenberg hit 5 of 6 shots and his only FT attempt to score 11 points, and Jack Burchett posted his second  consecutive double-double off the bench, finishing with 13 and 10, and a team high 3 blocks.

* Landon Gamble played only 12 minutes before going down with a game ending injury, but scored 14 points on 6 of 7 shooting in those 12 points. Had he played the entire game, he may have had 30 as NP had absolutely no answer inside for Landon prior to his injury. The 14 points he scored enabled him to become the 24th player in NCC school history to score at least 1,000 points (1,006)

*.Derek Raridon, playing at about 50%, scored a game high 18 points on 6 of 11 shooting. In the process, he moved into fourth place all-time in career scoring with 1,462 points.

[robertgoulet]

C'mon AndOne as if you've never reported on a game exclusively from the NCC perspective.  Everybody does that.

+100

[sac]

I guess I read the boards with posters in mind

Greg Sager = North Park perspective and resident novelist, also historian  (sadly dark and depressing for most of the decade, rootin' for ya Greg)

TitanQ = only one shade of green really, in a former life i'm convinced Q was an excellent stock pumper, still quality observations from Nebraska which is not in the CCIW

any Wheaton poster =  lots of good Wheaton representation without the dancing post-game celebrations to rub it in

AndOne =  the North Central perspective,  no van or bus jokes please

Mr Ypsi =  the never seen a game I couldn't  place odds on without having seen a CCIW game in 40 years perspective

Knighslappy =  the Calvin perspective with some actual fact based rationality

Oldknight  =  years and years and years of quality basketball viewing experience, also years of experience.

any Wooster poster =  the refs sucked and they were against Wooster all night but we still managed to dominate the conference we've been dominating for a decade somehow

[Titan Q]

A kid for IWU to recruit from the class of 2014...

http://www.galesburg.com/sports/x1058234767/Bloomington-stops-Silver-Streaks-boys-77-67

The Streaks stayed within 59-55 with 3:26 left in the game before Bloomington's Brady Rose _ the son of Illinois Wesleyan coach Ron Rose _ took over. He scored 11 points in the next minute on a pair of 3-pointers, a traditional 3-point play and a field goal to put his team ahead 70-58 with 2:20 remaining.

Led by Rose, Bloomington made 10 of 11 shots in the fourth quarter and was 10-for-13 from the line in the period.

Rose finished with 24 points to lead Bloomington.

[iwu70]

Brady Rose can really stroke it . . . I saw him play in the B/N City Tournament at Shirk, and he looked very comfortable playing there.  Yes, hope he appears at IWU along side Overstreet and Bryce Dolan.  He's got good range on the trey, too.   Bring on all three of the Seibring boys too -- a center, a 6'5" wing/trey shooter, and a good lanky guard.  Lots of talent in the B/N area these days -- many of them with many games of experience playing @The Shirk.

IWU70

[Mr. Ypsi]

A kid for IWU to recruit from the class of 2014...

http://www.galesburg.com/sports/x1058234767/Bloomington-stops-Silver-Streaks-boys-77-67

The Streaks stayed within 59-55 with 3:26 left in the game before Bloomington's Brady Rose _ the son of Illinois Wesleyan coach Ron Rose _ took over. He scored 11 points in the next minute on a pair of 3-pointers, a traditional 3-point play and a field goal to put his team ahead 70-58 with 2:20 remaining.

Led by Rose, Bloomington made 10 of 11 shots in the fourth quarter and was 10-for-13 from the line in the period.

Rose finished with 24 points to lead Bloomington.

Dare we even dream that Brady Rose can follow in the footsteps of Steve Djurickovic and Derek Raridon among coaches' sons, or is that unfair pressure and out of reach?

[AndOne]

A kid for IWU to recruit from the class of 2014...

http://www.galesburg.com/sports/x1058234767/Bloomington-stops-Silver-Streaks-boys-77-67

The Streaks stayed within 59-55 with 3:26 left in the game before Bloomington's Brady Rose _ the son of Illinois Wesleyan coach Ron Rose _ took over. He scored 11 points in the next minute on a pair of 3-pointers, a traditional 3-point play and a field goal to put his team ahead 70-58 with 2:20 remaining.

Led by Rose, Bloomington made 10 of 11 shots in the fourth quarter and was 10-for-13 from the line in the period.

Rose finished with 24 points to lead Bloomington.

I don't think Coach Rose will have to work too hard on that recruit!   

And the son of another CCIW head coach, might not require much convincing the following year:

https://www.dailyherald.com/article/20121228/sports/712289706/photos/EP3/