MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[mr_b]

Conference changes are not at all rare in d3, but the CCIW has been unusually stable.  All current CCIW members (except NPU) were founding members in 1947 (I don't think North Park was yet a 4-year school back then)...

North Park made the transition to a 4-year school starting in 1958.  According to the Carthage website, the school opened its Kenosha campus in 1962.

[John Gleich]

Is it now safe to say, that there will not be a team go thru the conference undefeated.

Bosko mentioned this on the Carthage postgame last night.  He said something like, "There is a very good chance this will be the 40th consecutive season without an undefeated CCIW team.  There just isn't another league that can say that."

I've heard Bosko reference this stat a lot of times over the years.  It's obvious that this is one of the things about the CCIW he appreciates and respects the most.

Bosko's like one of the '72 Miami Dolphins. I swear that he breaks out a bottle of champagne every season when the last remaining undefeated CCIW team loses.

Obviously there's a long way to go, including two very tough games this week... but I wonder how Bosko feels now, six games later, with six to go, and the Green Weenies remaining unscathed?

[USee]

While I think the Titans are a virtual shoe-in for the conference crown, I will go on record now as saying no way they go undefeated in conference. I suspect their finish will be 11-3 or 12-2. But I am just a football guy so what do I know?

[Titan Q]

While I think the Titans are a virtual shoe-in for the conference crown, I will go on record now as saying no way they go undefeated in conference. I suspect their finish will be 11-3 or 12-2. But I am just a football guy so what do I know?

I agree that IWU will finish 12-2 or 11-3...and I agree that you are just a football guy.

[clemac]

I was hoping no one would bring Bosko's line back until the season was over.

[mwunder]

While I think the Titans are a virtual shoe-in for the conference crown, I will go on record now as saying no way they go undefeated in conference. I suspect their finish will be 11-3 or 12-2. But I am just a football guy so what do I know?

I'll put $15 on the undefeated conference season.

[D-3 watcher]

I'll fade that bet, and hope I lose!!

[Titan Q]

The new Top 25 poll...

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2012-13/week9

Big kudos to the voters for only dropping NCC 2 spots (#5 to #7) after losing twice.  Definitely shows they are closely looking at who teams are playing and where.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Well... NCC did lose 70 points... so two spots but down a good bit

[Gregory Sager]

The new Top 25 poll...

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2012-13/week9

Big kudos to the voters for only dropping NCC 2 spots (#5 to #7) after losing twice.  Definitely shows they are closely looking at who teams are playing and where.

.. and what the final scores are (including the presence or absence of overtimes), and the personnel situation.

[kiko]

The new Top 25 poll...

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2012-13/week9

Big kudos to the voters for only dropping NCC 2 spots (#5 to #7) after losing twice.  Definitely shows they are closely looking at who teams are playing and where.

.. and what the final scores are (including the presence or absence of overtimes), and the personnel situation.

They were helped by some odd dynamics.  Four of the top ten teams lost tight games to strong opponents, and this seemed to paralyze movement at the top of the poll.  Voters had to figure out what to do, for instance, with #9 Williams, who lost away in their NESCAC derby with then-#14 Amherst, before defeating #3 Middlebury by a point.  (Ummm, we'll just leave them at #9 then.)

The oddity to me is Wooster -- they entered the week at #8, won twice... and gained just six points across all ballots.

IWU (+125 points and now at #12) and Wheaton (+77 points and up to #20) were among the big movers, along with Amherst, Rhode Island College, and Hampden-Sydney.  Each of these teams had signature wins over other ranked opponents or top-of-the-table conference foes last week.

[Gregory Sager]

Something posted recently got me thinking- and I can probably look this up, but figure someone here knows it already- how long have the 8 schools been in the CCIW that are currently in it?  And is it rare that a school joins a conference or switches?  Looking at the DI programs, where moving and changing has happened more frequently in the last few years, is there even a chance of that happening on the DIII level?  Or not enough $$ involved?

What made me think is if anyone would want to join CCIW basketball?

Conference changes are not at all rare in d3, but the CCIW has been unusually stable.  All current CCIW members (except NPU) were founding members in 1947 (I don't think North Park was yet a 4-year school back then), plus Illinois College and Lake Forest.  Illinois College left in 1953; Lake Forest in 1963.  Carroll joined in 1956; left in 1992.  In all three cases it is generally believed that they simply didn't feel they could compete at the level that the CCIW was evolving into.  NPU (then NPC) joined in 1963.

Three current schools have not been continuous members.  Wheaton was out for most of the 1960s ('invited' to leave for competing just a little bit TOO well!).  Carthage was out from 1954-62 (was that the move from Carthage to Kenosha?) and Elmhurst was out from 1961-68 (I don't know why).  [BTW, all dates are from the historical stats on men's basketball from the CCIW.org site; may not be exact for all sports.]

So other than Carroll leaving 20+ years ago, it has been the eight of us for 40+ years.  I don't foresee any changes up or down for the foreseeable future.

There are a bunch of reasons the conference has remained stable beyond what Ypsi articulated, with one of the primary factors being simply that, as I understand it, the eight conference members feel that eight is a really good number that works well from a scheduling standpoint.

There aren't dollars at stake the way there would be in D1, so adding far-flung membership (with far-flung being defined as: Indiana or Iowa) would probably just add expenses to the bottom line.

The CCIW does have an Indiana-based associate member, Rose-Hulman, which joined in 2007 for men's and women's swimming. RHIT's league, the HCAC, does not sponsor either sport, and the CCIW needed the extra member in order to retain automatic post-season bids, since some of the eight full CCIW members don't sponsor swimming teams.

Wheaton rejoined the league in all sports except football in the 1967-68 school year, and rejoined for football in the 1970-71 school year. Elmhurst rejoined the CCIW for the 1967-68 school year for all sports except football, and joined for football the next year (1968-69). That means that this is the 46th consecutive school year that the league has had the current eight members in common in all sports except football, and the 43th consecutive school year that it's had the current eight in football as well. (There's often a lag in the transferring of football membership when a school switches leagues, because football scheduling tends to be done farther in advance than is the case in other sports.)

The "eight is enough" explanation for the CCIW's current membership is one of the two primary factors that explains the league's stability, as kiko mentioned. Eight is the ideal number for conference size; it's big enough to get the automatic bid, not so big that it becomes unfeasible to schedule a single round-robin in football, a double round-robin in men's and women's basketball, etc., and it's an even number. Although Carroll made the CCIW a nine-school circuit for a long time -- two and a half decades -- the odd number of schools always made for scheduling headaches.

The other primary reason for the league's membership stability is that each of the eight CCIW schools seems to be very content here and appreciates the outstanding level of competition that the CCIW is able to achieve in most sports, vis-a-vis D3 as a whole; the relative geographic compactness of the league; the long-term relationship that endures between each of the eight athletic departments; and the proper balance that is struck among CCIW schools between athletics and academics.

Millikin's braintrust briefly contemplated leaving the league and moving to the NAIA a couple of years ago, but I can't believe that it was an option that went beyond the thinking-out-loud stage. And since then, Millikin has added at least one sport, whereas the main reason why any D3 school would want to move to the NAIA is to eliminate sports and move below the twelve-sport threshold D3 requires.

To answer CCIWchamps' original question, lots of schools would dearly love to join this league (Carroll, St. Norbert, Aurora, and Benedictine all come to mind, and rumors fly around about DePauw and Rose-Hulman from time to time as well) ... but it ain't gonna happen. The CCIW has a very Dick Van Patten mindset: Eight is enough.

[Naperick]

I was in Elmhurst on Saturday for the IWU-EC game.  This is not new but I was really impressed at how well the Titans pass the ball.  They reminded me of the 2005 Illinois team that lost the national title game.  They always make the extra pass.  That is hard to defend.

[Naperick]

Congrats if you were at King Arena tonight.  That is what Division III basketball is all about.  The crowd was Wheaton's second-largest regular season crowd in King Arena history and they were treated to a terrific ball game.  The energy and the crowd was circa 2009.

A fantastic atmosphere and the last time I was in King Arena was 2009 for the CCIW tourney title.  I watched my Bluejays lose a double-digit 2nd half lead and the game.  That is a great environment and just a lot of fun.  The 2nd half of the NCC-WC game was amazing!  NCC goes from 10 down to 8 up in a 7 minute stretch only to have Wheaton outscore the Cardinals 9-1 down the stretch to force overtime.  Both teams missed free throws.  Both teams lost their best players in overtime.  I know this is said too much but it is too bad someone had to lose that game.  I think that clinched the regular season title for IWU.

[Naperick]

This pretty much gives Wesleyan the CCIW title.

Well it certainly puts IWU in tremendous shape, but I think this statement is way too strong.  IWU still has...

@ Augustana
vs Wheaton
@ Carthage
@ North Central

There could easily be 3 losses there.

I agree. The schedule is not easy for the Titans.  But it looks like someone has to go 6-0 to take it.  That is asking a lot.