MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

Will Wheaton freshman Michael Berg have a breakout game today vs Millikin?
On 1/12, he scored 16 points in the teams first meeting.
However, in CCIW play, Berg is averaging only 3.36 ppg. (37 points in 11 games)
Despite starting, he has somewhat surprisingly gone scoreless in Wheaton's last 4 games.

Berg scored 4 points last night. Actually raised his scoring average from 3.36 to 3.41
Of course he did have a rebound. But, alas, 2 turnovers.
I sense he is finding the competition at the college level, especially in one of the premier D3 conferences, a bit tougher than going up against the likes of Farmington, Porta, and Greenview.

Is this a case of sour grapes or are you just being a major Richard?

Neither Wheels.
Rather, I was just picking up on something that was originally started by another poster a bit earlier in the season. I think it may have been Titan Q, but I'm not sure of that. I had just noticed the theme has continued further on into the season. And secondly, what did I say that wasn't true? I'm at somewhat of a loss as to why you evidently have a problem with the facts.

[ExBBaller40]

A look at the teams ranked in the first Midwest ranking (records through Sunday, 2/3) and results since...

1.   Illinois Wesleyan   15-3 (.833)/.560  won vs North Park, won @ Carthage
2.   Transylvania   15-4 (.789)/.565   won @ Mount St. Joseph, won @ Manchester   
3.   Wheaton      13-5 (.722)/.577  won vs Augustana, won @ Millikin   
4.   Washington U.   15-4 (.789)/.544   won vs Emory, won vs Rochester   
5.   North Central    16-3 (.842)/.525  won @ Millikin, won @ Augustana   
6.   Rose-Hulman   18-2 (.900)/.502   won vs Franklin, won @ Defiance   
7.   Augustana   15-5 (.750)/.549   lost @ Wheaton, lost vs North Central
8.   St. Norbert   15-4 (.789)/.525   won vs Carroll, lost @ Grinnell   
-----
      Grinnell        14-3 (.824)/.471    won vs St. Norbert

Q if you get a chance, how close is Aurora to sneaking into this thing if at all?

Through last Sunday, Aurora was...

15-6 (.714)/.470

This past week they won vs Rockford and Maranatha Baptist.  So now Aurora is 17-6 (.739)...and still with SOS problems.  Another problem for Aurora is that they lost to Augustana (at Aurora)...who will be scrapping for that final spot too.

I don't see AU getting ranked, sac.  Just my take.

Definitely don't see AU getting ranked either. Too weak of a conference having played only one game apiece against the NAC North (the infinitely better side of the conference) while playing twice against five teams that don't have a winning record in conference or at all (the two best are Dominican and Wisconsin Lutheran at 9-15, yikes).

Plus add their losses to Augustana and North Central and no signature win, they really don't have a shot.

Be interesting to see for the CCIW how having four teams regionally ranked in the beginning and how many get in...What would really be crazy is if Augustana (the weakest of the bunch) somehow gets hot and wins the conference tournament, in which I could see the CCIW for sure getting four teams into the tournament.

Otherwise Augie has a lot work to do to get in.

[USee]

Will Wheaton freshman Michael Berg have a breakout game today vs Millikin?
On 1/12, he scored 16 points in the teams first meeting.
However, in CCIW play, Berg is averaging only 3.36 ppg. (37 points in 11 games)
Despite starting, he has somewhat surprisingly gone scoreless in Wheaton's last 4 games.

Berg scored 4 points last night. Actually raised his scoring average from 3.36 to 3.41
Of course he did have a rebound. But, alas, 2 turnovers.
I sense he is finding the competition at the college level, especially in one of the premier D3 conferences, a bit tougher than going up against the likes of Farmington, Porta, and Greenview.

Is this a case of sour grapes or are you just being a major Richard?

Neither Wheels.
Rather, I was just picking up on something that was originally started by another poster a bit earlier in the season. I think it may have been Titan Q, but I'm not sure of that. I had just noticed the theme has continued further on into the season. And secondly, what did I say that wasn't true? I'm at somewhat of a loss as to why you evidently have a problem with the facts.

I don't think "I sense..." is a fact. It seems a lot like an opinion. Not saying I. or others don't share that opinion, but it certainly is not, by definition, a fact. 

[AndOne]

Die Hard

I notice you didn't include your Wheaton fans in that category of obnoxious.  If I remove Augustana, I would list my order as

Carthage
Wheaton
IWU/ North Park
Millikin
Elmhurst/North Central because they don't have many students at the games that I have attended.

Here is my take on the order of obnoxiousness of the conference student sections. Under the "you can't vote for your own team" rule. I'm leaving out NCC, who I'm sure has their moments.

1. Wesleyan---The clear winner for no other reason than I've not heard the 'N' word emanate from any other student section (directed at NCC's David Twyman in 2010), nor have I heard an opposing player or coach referred to as "Blackie" (1/23/13--fortunately, I don't think the object of the message heard it). The recent "Radio" chant earns some points too.
2. Augie---More on this a bit later
3. Wheaton--Mostly appropriately obnoxious  , but why the insistence on rushing the court after a regular season victory when that win was not against the #1 team, and didn't secure a regular season conference championship, a conference tourney championship, a bid to the national tourney, or a national championship?
And especially on another school's floor? Don't get it.
4. North Park--While there hasn't been a great deal of support lately, the Carlson Crazies have at times been the best organized, most original, and most obnoxious but in a "nice" way.
5. Carthage---The group as a whole has never seemed that obnoxious. Just isolated individuals mostly fueled by consumption of vast quantities during their pre-game warmup.
6. Elmhurst---Generally quieter bunch that cheers as much for their players as against the opponent.
7. Millikin--Never many fans there, and those that were just sit there without saying more than a couple of words. Maybe things will change in the near future.

[blue_jays]

Die Hard

I notice you didn't include your Wheaton fans in that category of obnoxious.  If I remove Augustana, I would list my order as

Carthage
Wheaton
IWU/ North Park
Millikin
Elmhurst/North Central because they don't have many students at the games that I have attended.

Here is my take on the order of obnoxiousness of the conference student sections. Under the "you can't vote for your own team" rule. I'm leaving out NCC, who I'm sure has their moments.

1. Wesleyan---The clear winner for no other reason than I've not heard the 'N' word emanate from any other student section (directed at NCC's David Twyman in 2010), nor have I heard an opposing player or coach referred to as "Blackie" (1/23/13--fortunately, I don't think the object of the message heard it). The recent "Radio" chant earns some points too.
2. Augie---More on this a bit later
3. Wheaton--Mostly appropriately obnoxious  , but why the insistence on rushing the court after a regular season victory when that win was not against the #1 team, and didn't secure a regular season conference championship, a conference tourney championship, a bid to the national tourney, or a national championship?
And especially on another school's floor? Don't get it.
4. North Park--While there hasn't been a great deal of support lately, the Carlson Crazies have at times been the best organized, most original, and most obnoxious but in a "nice" way.
5. Carthage---The group as a whole has never seemed that obnoxious. Just isolated individuals mostly fueled by consumption of vast quantities during their pre-game warmup.
6. Elmhurst---Generally quieter bunch that cheers as much for their players as against the opponent.
7. Millikin--Never many fans there, and those that were just sit there without saying more than a couple of words. Maybe things will change in the near future.

Hope College fans take the cake in my eyes in terms of obnoxiousness. They would burn Copernicus at the stake for having the temerity to say that the sun does not revolve around Holland, Michigan. They are the worst in opposing arenas, where they whine about seating and think they own the place. Also, Matt Neil is arrogance personified. He's frequently a jerk to opposing support and facilities staff.

[AO]

Die Hard

I notice you didn't include your Wheaton fans in that category of obnoxious.  If I remove Augustana, I would list my order as

Carthage
Wheaton
IWU/ North Park
Millikin
Elmhurst/North Central because they don't have many students at the games that I have attended.

3. Wheaton--Mostly appropriately obnoxious  , but why the insistence on rushing the court after a regular season victory when that win was not against the #1 team, and didn't secure a regular season conference championship, a conference tourney championship, a bid to the national tourney, or a national championship?
And especially on another school's floor? Don't get it.

I'd take that as a compliment.  The Wheaton fans apparently thought more highly of your squad than you do.

[AndOne]

Fan behavior---

I never felt the Augie student section was particularly obnoxious, but they exceeded expectations Sat.
The cheering section seemed to be composed mainly of football players. I make this assumption based on the fact that a majority of them had on football jerseys (duh).
The students just absolutely screamed during much of the game. They were also very demonstrative in their actions, jumping up and down, pumping their arms/fists. and doing the Giovanine Stomp during lulls in the action, especially just prior to a NCC player attempting a FT.
As in many most CCIW games I've seen this year, the officiating was.......inconsistent. Both head coaches had extended and animated discussions with the refs throughout the game. Numerous poor calls and non calls throughout.
While the students were collectively very obnoxious, 2 in particular stood out. #74, to a lesser degree, and number 1 on the obno scale was #23. I don't know if the kids were wearing their actual game jerseys, but referencing the Augie football roster shows #74, who was a very large dude, to be 290 pound Derek King. Picture on the website appears to confirm this. #23 on the web is listed as being Tim Maroder. From the web picture, I'd say it is almost certain confirmation. Anyway, #23 was the clear leader, and seemed to take special delight in rubbing in incorrect calls. After several particularly grievous calls against the Cards, the NCC head coach would arise to inquire as to the reasoning behind the referee's perception of the play. During these occasions Mr. #23 would scream almost loud enough to be heard outside "How does it feel? How does it feel"? while squatting up and down and pumping his arms.
His fervor was so infectiously over the top that, after the final horn, I too wanted to ask a certain individual how it felt!

* Greg Sager has entertained us with some stories about the Carlson Crazies, the NPU student cheering section. At Augie Sat night, I noticed several fans wearing shirts with "Carver Crazies" on the back. Alas, all of the fans so attired appeared eligible for the senior citizen discount.
Perhaps the adult education segment of the cheering section? 

** Also on Sat, I heard a chat I've not previously heard from a student cheering section. During those occasions when the NCC coach was discussing a certain call with one of the refs, and at other opportune times during the contest, the Augie students would chant "Todd beats his wife" over and over again.
Mrs. R is a strong woman, and I doubt she would stand for that.       

[Titan Q]

AndOne, in my opinion you really make this a miserable place to visit and participate in.  And personally, that's unfortunate.  I used to really enjoy this place.

[AndOne]

AndOne, in my opinion you really make this a miserable place to visit and participate in.  And personally, that's unfortunate.  I used to really enjoy this place.

Titan Q, this may come as a shock to you, but I feel exactly the same way.

[Pat Coleman]

AndOne, in my opinion you really make this a miserable place to visit and participate in.  And personally, that's unfortunate.  I used to really enjoy this place.

Titan Q, this may come as a shock to you, but I feel exactly the same way.

You feel that you make this a miserable place? Then why post?

[AndOne]

North Central over Augie, 76-62.

This was a tale of two halves.  Augie led by 16 late in the first half and by 14 (37-23) at the break.  The Cards struggled to get into any sort of rhythm, turning the ball over 12 times in the half and shooting just 39%.  Landon Gamble was essentially invisible.

Vince Kmiec hit a trio of threes early in the second half to bring the lead back down into single digits, and honestly, even when it was an 8- or 9-point gap, the Cards seemed in control.  They finally drew level at around the 7:30 mark and basically pulled away from there.  Augie got within two on a bailout three with around 2:00 to go, but the Cards got a three-point play on the other end and pulled away on FTs from there.  The Cards shot 15-25 from the field in the second half and turned the ball over only twice.  Their experience, and Augustana's youth, both were on full display in the last ten minutes.

Scoring:
Aaron Tiknis with 21
Jack Merrithey off the bench with 15, including 12 in H2
Landon Gamble with 13 after hitting just one of his first six
Vince Kmeic with 11
Derek Raridon with 10

Dan Jurgutis had 18 for the Vikes, with 14 of these in the first half
Mark Roth had 13
Ben Ryan with 8

This was the best game (well, half) that the Cards have played on the road in a while.  And Augie is going to be very strong in time as their puppies grow into full-fledged Augie Doggies.

Kiko---

Very good.

There were 5 turning points in this game.

5. After the NCC coaches performed surgery during the half time break and extracted the NCC player's heads from their butts, the players used the remainder of the break to look back at the mistakes they had made in the 1st half. They took it upon themselves individually and collectively to not make the same mistakes again and to do what was necessary to climb back into the game. They realized and owned they had let the intense and swarming Augie defense take them out of sync in the opening stanza.

4. Aaron Tiknis' steady play throughout. He largely kept the Cardinals from being run out of the gym entirely in the 1st half. He ended as the game's leading scorer with 21, hitting 70% of his shots from the field, including 50% (3/6) from three range, and 80% (4/5) from the line.

3-2. Vince Kmiec's 3 threes within a 2 1/2 minute span early in the 2nd half to start NCC on the comeback trail.
And, the coaching staff putting Vince on Augie PG Dan Jurgutis in the 2nd half after Dan had scored 14 1st half points. Vince rose to the challenge defensively and held Dan to 4 2nd half points (all FTs) to effectively limit Augie's most potent 1st half weapon. 

1. Jack Merrithey's breakout game. Jack was the primary force that fueled NCC's comeback and win. He hit a three for the last basket of the 1st half to reduce the Augie lead to "only" 13. In the 2nd half he directed the offense, breaking the Augie pressure on several occasions, hit another 3 as well as a driving layup, and converted on 7 of 8 FT attempts, many down the stretch, to seal the victory.

After committing 12 TOs in the opening half, the Cardinals only made 2 more in the 2nd, during which they outscored the Rivermen by a whopping 52-25 margin. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

New poll is out: IWU is 4th, NCC 8th, and Wheaton 21st.  For the first time this season, Augie got no votes.

[AndOne]

Q, or anybody. With 5 teams ahead of IWU in the top 25 losing, where do you think the Titans end up this week? NCC, Wheaton?

See the Top 25 results from this week update...

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4097.7440

I think IWU will end up #5.

IWU---------4
NCC---------5
Wheaton--18

We'll see 

Q, or anybody. With 5 teams ahead of IWU in the top 25 losing, where do you think the Titans end up this week? NCC, Wheaton?

I run the Posters' Poll.  There are still a couple of relevant games not yet over (e.g., Trinity @ Middlebury just underway; Southern Maine @ RIC still going), but once they are finished (and Darryl Nester puts up "How They Fared" to make sure I didn't forget any relevant results ), I'll let you know where I have them on my ballot.  I've been pretty consistently within +/- 2 slots of the d3hoops.com poll all season (there are 4-5 teams where we've disagreed by more; it's running about 50-50 on whether the next couple of weeks showed them or me to be more accurate! ).  I can already tell you I'm pretty sure I'll have IWU and NCC both in the top ten; Wheaton somewhere around 16-18.

FWIW, I've now done my PP ballot.  I ended up with IWU 5, NCC 6, and Wheaton 18. (My gut hunch is that I may have IWU and NCC a slot or two higher than the poll, Wheaton probably about right.  We shall see tomorrow.)

Looks like I gave your Weenies and my Cards a touch more credit, and we agree on the Orangemen's position. 

Mr-----

Looks like I had your IWU team pegged correctly, and naturally gave my Cardinals a bit too much credit.
I think we're both a little surprised at Wheaton's lower placement. 

[AndOne]

AndOne, in my opinion you really make this a miserable place to visit and participate in.  And personally, that's unfortunate.  I used to really enjoy this place.

Titan Q, this may come as a shock to you, but I feel exactly the same way.

You feel that you make this a miserable place? Then why post?

NIce try Pat, but I think you know I meant that I feel the same way about many of Titan Q's posts, and was agreeing that its unfortunate he feels he contributes to this feeling. Also, that it was more enjoyable before all the confrontational posturing began.
I apologize for my linguistic shortcomings. Hopefully, you'll accept.
Lastly, not to be smart, but doesn't Titan Q's statement that he "used to enjoy this place," open the possibility that you might have posed the same question to him?

[Gregory Sager]

Will Wheaton freshman Michael Berg have a breakout game today vs Millikin?
On 1/12, he scored 16 points in the teams first meeting.
However, in CCIW play, Berg is averaging only 3.36 ppg. (37 points in 11 games)
Despite starting, he has somewhat surprisingly gone scoreless in Wheaton's last 4 games.

Berg scored 4 points last night. Actually raised his scoring average from 3.36 to 3.41
Of course he did have a rebound. But, alas, 2 turnovers.
I sense he is finding the competition at the college level, especially in one of the premier D3 conferences, a bit tougher than going up against the likes of Farmington, Porta, and Greenview.

Is this a case of sour grapes or are you just being a major Richard?

Neither Wheels.
Rather, I was just picking up on something that was originally started by another poster a bit earlier in the season. I think it may have been Titan Q, but I'm not sure of that. I had just noticed the theme has continued further on into the season. And secondly, what did I say that wasn't true? I'm at somewhat of a loss as to why you evidently have a problem with the facts.

It wasn't Bob. I was actually the one who first cited the problems Michael Berg was having, way back in December. I did so because: a) Berg was pretty heavily hyped on CCIW Chat as far back as last season (his former high school coach, who posts here, gets an exemption, of course ); and, more importantly, b) he really looked like he was beginning to pick up steam with strong games against Hope, Westmo, and Wash U before totally and completely hitting the wall. Since then he's been a non-factor, except for an intriguing two-game stretch in mid-January against Millikin and Augie in which he scored 16 and 11, respectively.

No sour grapes on my part (NPU didn't recruit Berg), and I would hope that I'm not being perceived as a "major Richard" (I think of myself as more of a bonhomme Richard, as I have not yet begun to fight!) by focusing upon Berg. Given his visibility and the rather unusual pattern to his freshman season's performance, I considered him to be a fitting subject for closer examination on CCIW Chat.

I agree with Mark that there may be an element of his having a greater first-year adjustment to make as a small-school grad than is the case for a big-school kid. But I would also add that he's only a freshman, and he may very well go on to have a great career as a Wheaton basketball player. Nobody knows how he'll turn out in the end.