MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

The highlights package, produced by NCC, on the game last night...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3yf193J-vao

[Gregory Sager]

70

I was at the game, and no I don't think the game was officiated terrible. Was it a work of art, no. You can't see the the game on your computer, pad, or phone, and tell if it was officiated correctly, as well as if you are at the game. They make, and will continue to make questionable calls. They do at every level.

You complain about the refs, we all do a little, but if they don't call both those T's, then they are not doing their job.

Exactly. There are certain calls in a basketball game that are cut-and-dried and not really open to interpretation. As D-Mac posted earlier today:

Yes... Class B technical fouls do not count towards the team total.. for your reading enjoyment... here is a breakdown of Class B technicals:

Section 6. (Men) CLASS B TECHNICAL INFRACTIONS
[snip]
f. Grasping either basket in an excessive, emphatic manner during the officials' jurisdiction when the player is not, in the judgment of an official, trying to prevent an obvious injury to self or others.

This is a Class B technical foul, which means that it does not also count as a personal foul. From what I've read of the T against Charlie Rosenberg, it appears that this was handled properly.

Slamming the ball down in frustration after a foul has been called on you or your teammate, which is what Victor Davis did after Kevin Reed picked up his fourth foul, is a Class A technical foul (aka an "Unsporting Technical Infraction"), as found on page 100 of the NCAA basketball rulebook:

Section 5. (Men) CLASS A Unsporting Technical Infractions
Art. 1. A player or substitute committing an unsportsmanlike act including, but not limited to, the following:
a. Disrespectfully addressing or contacting an official or gesturing in such a manner as to indicate resentment.

Class A technicals also count as personal fouls.

Every basketball official on Earth considers slamming down the basketball so hard that it bounces up higher than the backboard, as D-3 watcher put it, to be a gesture performed "in such a manner as to indicate resentment." It's a no-brainer call. I'll bet that there wasn't a peep of protest from Ron Rose over that technical.

[Titan Q]

Thank goodness IWU finally hired a new coach. I was in the flight pattern of the flights from all over the country being re directed to the Bloomington International Airport, Hair Care and Tire Center.

A high school coach? From Bloomington!  So much for the national search for the best job in Division III .

Reminds me of the Sox hiring Terry Bevington, or George Bush elected president. Some people are just not qualified...   

After reading this, pistol, I'm not sure whether or not to believe the rat ate your lunch at Fred Young.  I wanted to believe, but now...I'm lost.

[Gregory Sager]

Maybe it was just a possum that had yet to hit its growth spurt.

[Titan Q]

Is someone working on the www.fireronrose.com website?

Reid Doner, did you ever get this website off the ground?

[Spencer19881991]

Stick to officiating Reid.

[keith45]

Regarding Andrew Ziemnik's fitness: 

He averages 27.5 minutes a game over the season, second only to point guard Dylan Overstreet.  He is the only Titan to have started every game.  He plays the "small forward" role, and often guards the other team's best frontcourt player.  Last night he played 41 minutes and hit a long three to put the Titans ahead in the last minute of regulation. Doesn't sound like an out-of-shape player to me.

Regardless of whether he "looks like a basketball player," the evidence is that he's a very good one.  Most of us would be happy to have his level of fitness.

I dont think anyone questioned his fitness (I didn't), more his apperance. And my bad, I referring to th epost players for IWU in my earlier posts

[TitansIWU]

It's kinda funny to me that people question his fitness or his appearance, it would be different if his size or shape seemed to make him incapable of getting up and down the floor, or if he had a problem with the stamina required for the pace of the game. I don't think either is the case.

If you judged athletic ability on appearance, I can think of many cases where you'd be misjudging. From elementary school all the way to the professional level, there are players who defy conventional wisdom with respect to what a player in a certain position "should" look like.

I would think if Ron Rose (the guy closest to and arguably the most qualified to judge an IWU player's condition on a daily basis) thought it was an issue, he wouldn't be playing the minutes that he does.

[Titan Q]

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-01-31/sports/ct-spt-0131-prep-college-catchup-20130131_1_andrew-ziemnik-jordan-zimmer-illinois-wesleyan

Six-foot-4 and stocky with hair down to the middle of his back, Andrew Ziemnik looked more like a bouncer or a roadie than a basketball player while leading Oswego to the Class 3A state final as an Oswego junior in 2009.

Four years later he's still flunking every eye test and exceeding every expectation at Illinois Wesleyan.

"Andrew Ziemnik is a unique guy," Wesleyan coach Ron Rose said. "He is a very intelligent young man, he has a terrific perspective and he is not afraid to be himself. He has been one of those guys you love coaching.

"Last year he came off the bench, and I had several people come up to me and say, 'I was wondering why you put him in the game, but after I watched him for a minute or two, I understood.'"


Andrew Ziemnik has become one of my favorite IWU players in the 24 years I've been following the program.  Obviously everyone loves the superstars, me included -- guys like Kuehl, Simich, Crabtree, Coon, Dauksas, Amelianovich, Freeman, etc.  But Ziemnik, for me, is now in a category with guys like Matt Hoder, Nathan Hubbard, and John Camardella.  His value to the team is just simply not captured in the boxscore.  He's just a terrific basketball player and a winner. 

[Titan Q]

Questioning Ziemnik's appearance is one thing.  Sure, he has really long hair and doesn't look like a basketball player...and certainly not like a traditional, Dennie Bridges Illinois Wesleyan basketball player.  I got over the hair when I realized how good he is at basketball. 

It's funny that Ron Rose made him cut his hair before last season started because he "hadn't earned it yet."  (Let's go to the haircut footage -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tXMr9ssyXY&feature=relmfu).  Then before this year he told him he'd earned the right to wear his hair however he wants.

Questioning his fitnesse is just plain silly though.  This is a guy that runs the floor really well, and also then bangs in the low post with some of the best forwards in the league, and also guards some of the star perimeter player (like Tyler Peters and Derek Raridon).

I honestly wonder if he could be a Division I football tight end.

[Hoosier Titan]

I dont think anyone questioned his fitness (I didn't), more his apperance. And my bad, I referring to th epost players for IWU in my earlier posts

The original post was from cciwrabblerouser, who said:

"please tell me it's the camera ...

'the camera adds 10 pounds.'  since i have a great deal of respect for iwu and its basketball program, i am looking for confirmation that indeed it IS the camera.  watching andrew ziemnik (#35) of the titans on the  video feed last night, it appears that andy is extremely overweight, with flabby arms and a 38" waist.  i assume this is NOT the case, but it's only the camera that is adding girth.  it just looks very unwesleyanlike (hey i've created a new word) to have an out-of-shape player on the court.

can others confirm that andy is in great shape?  i'd prefer to hear it from non-iwu fans since i know they look at everything through green-colored lenses."

Extremely overweight, flabby arms, and out-of-shape would indicate questioning someone's fitness to me.  But no one who's seen Ziemnik play in person would seriously question his fitness.  The broadcast made everyone look short and heavier than they really are.

[Titan Q]

I dont think anyone questioned his fitness (I didn't), more his apperance. And my bad, I referring to th epost players for IWU in my earlier posts

The original post was from cciwrabblerouser, who said:

"please tell me it's the camera ...

'the camera adds 10 pounds.'  since i have a great deal of respect for iwu and its basketball program, i am looking for confirmation that indeed it IS the camera.  watching andrew ziemnik (#35) of the titans on the  video feed last night, it appears that andy is extremely overweight, with flabby arms and a 38" waist.  i assume this is NOT the case, but it's only the camera that is adding girth.  it just looks very unwesleyanlike (hey i've created a new word) to have an out-of-shape player on the court.

can others confirm that andy is in great shape?  i'd prefer to hear it from non-iwu fans since i know they look at everything through green-colored lenses."

Extremely overweight, flabby arms, and out-of-shape would indicate questioning someone's fitness to me.  But no one who's seen Ziemnik play in person would seriously question his fitness.  The broadcast made everyone look short and heavier than they really are.

There is no coach in the CCIW, and I'm guessing no fan that has seen IWU play in person, that would describe Andrew Ziemnik as being "extremely overweight, with flabby arms and a 38" waist."  That's silly.

Now, they may say he looks more like Kid Rock than a 1st Teamer...I have no problem with that.

[Hoosier Titan]

Now, they may say he looks more like Kid Rock than a 1st Teamer...I have no problem with that.

Me neither.  The first time I saw him at a scrimmage I said "Who's the football player?"  Someone told me that he had the best fundamentals of anyone in the class, and it didn't take long to see it.  No matter what he looks like, he's a real player. 

[bopol]

Questioning Ziemnik's appearance is one thing.  Sure, he has really long hair and doesn't look like a basketball player...and certainly not like a traditional, Dennie Bridges Illinois Wesleyan basketball player.  I got over the hair when I realized how good he is at basketball. 

I honestly wonder if he could be a Division I football tight end.

Oh gosh, I was kidding about his hair. 

And I've always thought that Tyler Pierce would be the best tight end in CCIW basketball. 

[USee]

FWIW, my all-CCIW teams:

1st Team      
G   Peters   WHE
G   Overstreet   IWU
G/F   Raridon   NC
F   Haynes   WHE
F   Gamble   NC
      
2nd Team      
G   Sodermann   IWU
F   Tiknis   NC
F   Ziemnik   IWU
F   Sanford   ELM
F   Holmes   NP
      
3rd Team      
G   Teuscher   WHE
G   Kvam   WHE
F   Thompson   CAR
F   Ryan    AUG
C   Kuntz   AUG

I doubt many will find this out of line...

Peters is Player of the Year.

I think Overstreet should be first team because IMO he is the reason that IWU has been so successful.  I expected some drop-off in IWU when Gonzalez graduated, but there really wasn't.

I had a little trouble placing the really good players on the poor teams (Sanford and Holmes).  I think 2nd team is reasonable.

I felt bad keeping Reed (IWU) and Johnson (Millikin).

There is no way IWU and NCC are getting 3 AC players and Wheaton is getting 4. Haynes won't be 1st team over Tiknis/Zeimnik and I think either Reed or V Davis (possibly both) are a lock for appearing somewhere on the AC teams. Kvam is not All conference in my opinion. too inconsistent this year. Great shooter but he didn't prove it often enough. Teuscher has a chance for 3rd team. I would put Zeimnik on 1st team (that's a no brainer) over Haynes (2nd team). And I would add either Reed or Davis from IWU to the 2nd team bumping Holmes from NP to 3rd team. On the 3rd team I would put the other IWU player (Z/V) and lose Kvam. There is also an argument for Kmiec over Teuscher on 3rd team. I would go with:

1st Team      
G   Peters   WHE
G   Overstreet   IWU
G/F   Raridon   NC
F   Zeimnik    IWU
F   Gamble   NC
      
2nd Team      
G   Sodermann   IWU
F   Tiknis   NC
F   Haynes   WHE
F   Sanford   ELM
F   Reed   IWU
      
3rd Team      
G   Teuscher   WHE
G   Holmes   NPU
F   Thompson   CAR
F   Ryan    AUG
C   Kuntz   AUG