MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[John Gleich]

The matchup for the Thunder this weekend is a formidable one. The Tommies are 27-1 on the year with their lone loss @Concordia-Morehead by 2 (CM is 18-8 on the season). they Beat CM at home by 29 earlier in the season. Their closest home game was a win over 22-5 UWSP by 5 and a win over lowly St. Olaf by 5 late in the year. I suppose Wheaton fans could point to their schedule and say they havne't played as many tough opponents. That gives us a glimmer of hope. On to the matchps;

UST features:

"We" Will "Rock-you" Deberg          6-0, Sr, G, 12.4pt, 2.3 reb, 1.5 A/TO, 41% 3pt (64-156), 86% FT
Tommy "Amaker" Hannon               6-7, Sr, C  11.4pts 6.7 reb
John "Larry" Nance                         6-3, Sr, G, 9.7pts, 3.0reb, 42% 3pt
Zach "Randolph" Riedeman            6-4, Jr, F,   9.3ppg, 3.5 reb, 39% 3pt
Erik "Spoelstra" Tengwall               6-1, Jr, G,    6.1ppg, 2.7 reb, 41% 3pt

Off the bench they bring:

"Joachim" Noah Kaiser                   6-5, Sr, F    6.9ppg, 2.0 Reb
Conner "Elin" Nord "Egren"           6-6 soph, F
Marcus "Muhammed" Ali-pate       6-0, soph, G

The Tommies are shooting 42% from 3 pt land for the season on an average of 16 attempts a game. So you can expect them to make 6-9 3's. Their defense is clearly at a high level. Only 2 teams have scored 70pts on them all year. Their lone loss came when they managed only 52 pts and shot 37%. If the Thunder wants to have a chance, they better play the best defense they have played all season and they need to shoot a really high percentage from the perimeter. Tough duty against a veteran squad.

One of the cornerstones of St. Thomas basketball over their string of great basketball from the past several years has been their depth.

If you look at their stats, no one player averaves more than 23 minutes per game. In only 4 games did UST's leading scorer score 20+ (though, in full disclosure, in one of those games there were two 20 point scorers).

And yet, they still average over 82 points per game... which means that pretty much everybody out on the floor is capable of scoring.

It should also be noted that UST likes to play an up-tempo style (but only at times... see below) and they press a lot. They force 15+ TO's per game and average nearly 9 steals per game. Those are oftentimes converted into easy points.

But UST also is unselfish, as noted above. They don't care who scores and will break you down and make you defend for the whole 35 seconds. They're averaging just 62 offensive possessions per game, with an offensive efficiency of 132.86. They're able to score so many points because they shoot a high percentage (52% overall, #1 in the country, 42.7% from 3, #3 in the country). That's reminiscent of Williams in 2010, when they led the country in both categories. That Williams team lost in the National Title game, and it was only due to an extreme defensive effort and some timely hit shots that Stevens Point was able to come back (they were down 10 with 11 minutes to go and the game was tied with 8:12 left).


All told, here's what St. Thomas would like to do to their opponent. They want to turn them over and get quick, easy baskets. They come at you in waves and will put lots of pressure on the ball. In the half court, they will force teams out of their comfort zone with pressure, all the while trying to force turnovers and to make things difficult. Their 3 pt fg % defense is very good (28.1%) because of their pressure, but also because they get a lead and teams have to try to shoot out of it (and can't).

On offense, UST only turns it over 10 times per game (10th in the country) and has the 2nd best assist-to-TO ratio (7th in the country in assists, assiting on 60% of their shots). That, paired with their patience on offense (and, frankly, skill... you can be the most patient team in the land, but if you can't shoot, it won't matter).

St. Thomas is an excellent team. They are sound fundamentally, they don't beat themselves, and they are deep and unselfish. If an offensive team can take care of the ball and make UST work on defense the whole time, they might be able to knock off the Tommies, especially if UST isn't hitting their shots. An inside go-to guy helps, but a team needs to be very good on a night that the Tommies are strugging in order to win.

In the UWSP/UST game, I think that if the game had gone another 5 minutes, Point would have won it. UWSP had the momentum and sort of just ran out of time. UST did help their cause... there was a fantom foul called with a under a minute on a dead ball (great acting job by a savy senior - Will DeBerg - a 90% FT shooter - did what he "had to" to get the ball in his hands) that took a 2 point game and made it a 4 point game and SP ran out of time.

SP turned it over just 7 times that game... but an untimely turnover with :02 left before the end of the first half allowed Riedman to hit a 3/4 cout shot. Without that, it might have turned out differently... but it just goes to show that UST will make you pay!

[kiko]

The original question was:

Aren't track and cc more important at NCC?

That has nothing to do with paid spectators, traffic on a web site, column inches in the Naperville Sun, etc.

It's interesting that the original question was assuming that track and xc *are* more important, but AO is assuming that they *aren't*.

What I can tell you is that the administration and NCC community would not consider one to be more important than the other.  Student-athlete success is student-athlete success.  Basketball is higher-profile to the general outside world (albeit in the way that a D3 sport ever will be high profile...), but the school's sustained legacy of success in track and cross country is a tremendous source of pride at North Central and helps to further the school's image to prospective students, and its success in alumni fundraising efforts.

[kiko]

Rafi, keep in mind that the poster who provoked your reaction is not a North Central supporter. He's an Illinois Wesleyan supporter, and as such he has no skin in the game as far as NCC vs. UWW is concerned. Given that he's the father of an IWU track & field athlete, plus the fact that there doesn't appear to be much love lost between the CCIW's two United Methodist schools as far as basketball is concerned, his lack of sympathy for the plight of the NCC cagers is completely understandable. I'm sure that North Central track & field supporters such as NCF are genuinely unhappy that the Cardinals are being forced to play at Benedictine on Saturday, even as they defend the track & field championship's priority with regard to the use of the hangar.

I will quibble with one aspect of this.  (The bold red part.)

I can't speak for everyone, but much as I want to see the Sons of Warden take the Titans to the woodshed any time they play in basketball or any other sport, rather than 'no love lost', I have a tremendous respect (and envy) for their men's basketball tradition.  Some of their supporters will occasionally push the wrong button just as I'm sure North Central's do.  But I have a healthy admiration for the wonderful connection to the local community that they have, with the caravan of blue-hairs trekking across the state in support of the team, the high-fives for the kids as the team comes out for warmups, the sold-out atmosphere more often than not, and (most importantly), the rafters full of banners. 

Even with their recent success on the hardcourt, North Central is a johnny-come-lately when compared to the Titans' tradition.  I would love to see the Cards get to a similar place as time progresses.

[NCF]

Aren't track and cc more important at NCC?

I would say they are equally important.  There has been more success, and more sustained success, in track and cross country, but that doesn't make them more important.

equally important to who?  I must have missed all of their posts on the d3indoortrackandfield.com forum.

What's your point, AO? That the running sports are less important to a particular school just because they don't have a separate intercollegaite Internet site?

There actually are a couple of discussion boards for D3 running sports right here on d3boards.com. And, yes, NCC fans post on them.

North Central has won fifteen men's cross-country national championships, four men's indoor t&f national championships, and six men's outdoor t&f national championships, and who knows how many individual national championships in the running sports. NCC ranks in the top five among all D3 schools in team national championships, largely on the back of its thinclads and the amazing run (pun intended) that they've had since Al Carius took over the running sports at NCC almost a half-century ago. The fact that you dismiss the importance of the running sports at NCC only shows your ignorance of the school's remarkable history in those sports and the important place that they hold in the school's athletic identity.

I'm no North Central fan, but I give respect where respect is due.

If Northwestern had a roomful of Walnut & Bronze trophies in the running sports, you can be darned sure that you'd be touting them on these boards at every opportunity.

I'm measuring importance in terms of number of supporters.  Number of fans willing to pay admission.  Number of fans interested enough to visit websites to monitor their favorite teams/argue about matchups with rivals. 

How many fans would show up for a national tournament featuring 895 basketball players?  That would be like putting the entire basketball tourney in one location.

Not being mean or disrespectful, but you have no idea how track and field runs their NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS. All competitors that are eligible must run in one meet so that the elite can compete against each other. There are no series of meets leading up to the "Final Four". These competitors get one shot at a title and must (for most events) run a qualifying heat the day before finals. Only eight runners qualify for the finals and the only way to score points for your team is in the finals. Track has plenty of fans who are willing to pay to watch a meet, especially a National Championship meet. Every indoor meet at North Central draws big crowds and if you want a good seat, you need to get there early. As I said before, I love basketball and it is a shame that the team can't use it's home court,  when they have earned the right to host, but to say the National Championships are "just another track meet" is demeaning to those who participate in the sport.  Forgot to add, Kiko is right about no sport being more important than another-at least I have not seen that all in the past four years.

[Gregory Sager]

I don't think that "no love lost" and tremendous respect are mutually exclusive, Kiko. I have tremendous respect for Wheaton College as an institution of higher learning, as an incubator of outstanding young people of character and integrity, and as an athletics juggernaut that seems to produce winners in every sport that doesn't involve a bat, a ball with stitches, and sunflower seeds. And I've never been shy about publicly saying those things.

And, all that said, I want North Park to kick Wheaton's collective gluteus maximus up and down the field/court/diamond/whatever each and every time that the two schools face off against each other. Doesn't happen nearly as often as I'd like it to happen, but, let me tell you, there are few things in life that are more satisfying than when NPU beats WC at something. The mere thought of downcast Wheaton fans shuffling slowly out of a stadium or gym after a loss to dear ol' NPU just makes me light up like a Christmas tree.

I don't see the conflict between the two sentiments.

[NCF]

...there are few things in life that are more satisfying than when NPU North Central beats WC at something. The mere thought of downcast Wheaton fans shuffling slowly out of a stadium or gym after a loss to dear ol' NPU  North Central  :)just makes me light up like a Christmas tree.

sorry, I couldn't resist BTW, I'm sure Wheaton fans feel the same towards North Central.

[TitansIWU]

"thinclads"

[Gregory Sager]

...there are few things in life that are more satisfying than when NPU North Central beats WC at something. The mere thought of downcast Wheaton fans shuffling slowly out of a stadium or gym after a loss to dear ol' NPU  North Central  :)just makes me light up like a Christmas tree.

sorry, I couldn't resist BTW, I'm sure Wheaton fans feel the same towards North Central.

Pfft. Your beef with them involves one sport and a silly bell. Our beef with them involves everything from theology to socioeconomics to divided families and churches (Hi, Mugsy! Whazzup, matblake?) to the basic theory behind Christian higher education to the fact that NPU's parent denomination came perilously close at one point in the late nineteenth century to entrusting the training of its future preachers -- a huge part of the raison d'etre for North Park -- to Wheaton College.

I've told this story before, but a few years ago, on the first day of New Student Orientation at NPU, there was a large sign taped to the footbridge across the Chicago River in the middle of campus that read, "Thank You For Not Choosing Wheaton". I will bet all of the corn in Manito -- and all of the pea soup in Skokie -- that nobody's ever posted a sign like that at North Central. Or ever will. Or has ever even thought about it.

[Gregory Sager]

"thinclads"

I'm on a mission to revive all of the old sport-specific nicknames for athletes. I keep throwing "cagers" and "gridders" out there on d3boards.com, too, but so far you're the first person who has responded to my admittedly-quixotic quest.

I'm saving "harriers" for a special occasion.

[Mugsy]

...there are few things in life that are more satisfying than when NPU North Central beats WC at something. The mere thought of downcast Wheaton fans shuffling slowly out of a stadium or gym after a loss to dear ol' NPU  North Central  :)just makes me light up like a Christmas tree.

sorry, I couldn't resist BTW, I'm sure Wheaton fans feel the same towards North Central.

Pfft. Your beef with them involves one sport and a silly bell. Our beef with them involves everything from theology to socioeconomics to divided families and churches (Hi, Mugsy! Whazzup, matblake?) to the basic theory behind Christian higher education to the fact that NPU's parent denomination came perilously close at one point in the late nineteenth century to entrusting the training of its future preachers -- a huge part of the raison d'etre for North Park -- to Wheaton College.

I've told this story before, but a few years ago, on the first day of New Student Orientation at NPU, there was a large sign taped to the footbridge across the Chicago River in the middle of campus that read, "Thank You For Not Choosing Wheaton". I will bet all of the corn in Manito -- and all of the pea soup in Skokie -- that nobody's ever posted a sign like that at North Central. Or ever will. Or has ever even thought about it.

My ears were burning... I will remind those on the board that the feeling generally is not mutual from a Wheaton perspective.  We don't typically harbor severe animosity towards NPU - except perhaps in recent years on the soccer pitch.

I will say as an attender of a Covenant church for 42 years, the Covenant denomination is remarkable for what they do across the world and I have huge appreciation for our NPU Seminary trained pastors. 

[Gregory Sager]

Old-school basketball, as played in a cage. Hence, "cagers" as a nickname for basketball players.



"Ten men enter. Five men leave!"

[Gregory Sager]

My ears were burning... I will remind those on the board that the feeling generally is not mutual from a Wheaton perspective.  We don't typically harbor severe animosity towards NPU

Yup. And all the more reason why you folks angry up our blood.

- except perhaps in recent years on the soccer pitch.

God bless soccer. And God bless Sweden. Vikingarna är bäst!

I will say as an attender of a Covenant church for 42 years, the Covenant denomination is remarkable for what they do across the world and I have huge appreciation for our NPU Seminary trained pastors.

Amen to that!

[sac]

I will bet all of the corn in Manito -- and all of the pea soup in Skokie --

This is the posting up equivalent of a spin move in the lane and a soft left hander with the shot clock winding down.

Its been a long season and I wasn't sure the corn haul in Manito was going to come up this year, but with the game winding down Sager hits the lane and shows us a move we didn't know he had in him.  Looks like I have some research to do on pea soup and Skokie.

[TitansIWU]

"thinclads"

I'm on a mission to revive all of the old sport-specific nicknames for athletes. I keep throwing "cagers" and "gridders" out there on d3boards.com, too, but so far you're the first person who has responded to my admittedly-quixotic quest.

I'm saving "harriers" for a special occasion.

I love seeing those terms!

[kiko]

"Ten men enter. Five men leave!"

From reading the recaps, that sounds the last IWU-Wheaton game?   

... and that personal satisfaction you feel when the Park sends the Thunder rolling?  We may not share the same ecumenical schism that your alma mater does, but I have to agree with NCF here... from a Southern DuPage perspective, our animosity toward our Northern brethren ain't limited to just football.