MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[D-3 watcher]

In regards to which sport is more important to NCC, track n field or basketball. It's not even close, it's track n field.
All you have to do is count the number of athletes on each team. Track more than doubles basketball, which in turn brings in more money, in tuition.
Would we be talking about this if the men's team couldn't host because it was the women's team year to host? I know it's a different sport, but it's still NCC athletes.
IWU will host this same track championship soon, it's what you want when you build a place nice enough to have it.

[Gregory Sager]

I will bet all of the corn in Manito -- and all of the pea soup in Skokie --

This is the posting up equivalent of a spin move in the lane and a soft left hander with the shot clock winding down.

Its been a long season and I wasn't sure the corn haul in Manito was going to come up this year, but with the game winding down Sager hits the lane and shows us a move we didn't know he had in him.  Looks like I have some research to do on pea soup and Skokie.

Several years ago, during a lull in the flow of CCIW Chat conversation, from out of nowhere Skokie resident Mark Erickson brought up the subject of split-pea soup after having a particularly satisfying bowl of it at some local diner. For awhile there, it looked as though "all the pea soup in Skokie" was going to be the new CCIW Chat superlative meme in place of "all the corn in Manito" ... but it didn't take off like the original did.

Of course, having not one, but two Elmhurst basketball stars hail from the same tiny (pop. 1,733, according to wiki) corn-producing hamlet in central Illinois a decade apart certainly kept the meme topical for us.

(I've searched through all of Mark's posts, and I can't find the pea soup reference to link for you. It's driving me batty, because I know that it took place here on CCIW Chat.)

[AO]

Aren't track and cc more important at NCC?

I would say they are equally important.  There has been more success, and more sustained success, in track and cross country, but that doesn't make them more important.

equally important to who?  I must have missed all of their posts on the d3indoortrackandfield.com forum.

What's your point, AO? That the running sports are less important to a particular school just because they don't have a separate intercollegaite Internet site?

There actually are a couple of discussion boards for D3 running sports right here on d3boards.com. And, yes, NCC fans post on them.

North Central has won fifteen men's cross-country national championships, four men's indoor t&f national championships, and six men's outdoor t&f national championships, and who knows how many individual national championships in the running sports. NCC ranks in the top five among all D3 schools in team national championships, largely on the back of its thinclads and the amazing run (pun intended) that they've had since Al Carius took over the running sports at NCC almost a half-century ago. The fact that you dismiss the importance of the running sports at NCC only shows your ignorance of the school's remarkable history in those sports and the important place that they hold in the school's athletic identity.

I'm no North Central fan, but I give respect where respect is due.

If Northwestern had a roomful of Walnut & Bronze trophies in the running sports, you can be darned sure that you'd be touting them on these boards at every opportunity.

I'm measuring importance in terms of number of supporters.  Number of fans willing to pay admission.  Number of fans interested enough to visit websites to monitor their favorite teams/argue about matchups with rivals. 

How many fans would show up for a national tournament featuring 895 basketball players?  That would be like putting the entire basketball tourney in one location.

Not being mean or disrespectful, but you have no idea how track and field runs their NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS. All competitors that are eligible must run in one meet so that the elite can compete against each other. There are no series of meets leading up to the "Final Four". These competitors get one shot at a title and must (for most events) run a qualifying heat the day before finals. Only eight runners qualify for the finals and the only way to score points for your team is in the finals. Track has plenty of fans who are willing to pay to watch a meet, especially a National Championship meet. Every indoor meet at North Central draws big crowds and if you want a good seat, you need to get there early. As I said before, I love basketball and it is a shame that the team can't use it's home court,  when they have earned the right to host, but to say the National Championships are "just another track meet" is demeaning to those who participate in the sport.  Forgot to add, Kiko is right about no sport being more important than another-at least I have not seen that all in the past four years.

That's great that indoor meets at North Central draw great crowds, but you can't compare the total attendance from basketball with track.  It's not close.   I get that North Central needs the space to host this meet, but when comparing between the North Central track team and the North Central basketball team, it's obvious which team people care more about, which teams gets more press coverage, which team gets talked about more on forums.

[iwu70]

Thanks, Kiko, you are most kind about my beloved school's strong basketball tradition.

And, Greg, keep those new words from back in the day coming.  I love the "throw-back" language for our CCIW sportsmen and women. 

Good luck to all this weekend, thinclads and cagers alike, home or away, or exiled to Lisle -- from all schools, denominations, and backgrounds, however strange, glorious or loveable they may (or may not) be!  Can't we all , like, like, just get along? 

Go TITANS!!! -- John Wesley is no doubt on your side.  Onward Titans . . . crush those Bears!

IWU70

Greg, I remember those "split pea" discussions -- you even advised me where to find a good bowl of the golden stuff near NPU, as I recall.  ms

[Gregory Sager]

Aren't track and cc more important at NCC?

I would say they are equally important.  There has been more success, and more sustained success, in track and cross country, but that doesn't make them more important.

equally important to who?  I must have missed all of their posts on the d3indoortrackandfield.com forum.

What's your point, AO? That the running sports are less important to a particular school just because they don't have a separate intercollegaite Internet site?

There actually are a couple of discussion boards for D3 running sports right here on d3boards.com. And, yes, NCC fans post on them.

North Central has won fifteen men's cross-country national championships, four men's indoor t&f national championships, and six men's outdoor t&f national championships, and who knows how many individual national championships in the running sports. NCC ranks in the top five among all D3 schools in team national championships, largely on the back of its thinclads and the amazing run (pun intended) that they've had since Al Carius took over the running sports at NCC almost a half-century ago. The fact that you dismiss the importance of the running sports at NCC only shows your ignorance of the school's remarkable history in those sports and the important place that they hold in the school's athletic identity.

I'm no North Central fan, but I give respect where respect is due.

If Northwestern had a roomful of Walnut & Bronze trophies in the running sports, you can be darned sure that you'd be touting them on these boards at every opportunity.

I'm measuring importance in terms of number of supporters.  Number of fans willing to pay admission.  Number of fans interested enough to visit websites to monitor their favorite teams/argue about matchups with rivals. 

How many fans would show up for a national tournament featuring 895 basketball players?  That would be like putting the entire basketball tourney in one location.

Not being mean or disrespectful, but you have no idea how track and field runs their NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS. All competitors that are eligible must run in one meet so that the elite can compete against each other. There are no series of meets leading up to the "Final Four". These competitors get one shot at a title and must (for most events) run a qualifying heat the day before finals. Only eight runners qualify for the finals and the only way to score points for your team is in the finals. Track has plenty of fans who are willing to pay to watch a meet, especially a National Championship meet. Every indoor meet at North Central draws big crowds and if you want a good seat, you need to get there early. As I said before, I love basketball and it is a shame that the team can't use it's home court,  when they have earned the right to host, but to say the National Championships are "just another track meet" is demeaning to those who participate in the sport.  Forgot to add, Kiko is right about no sport being more important than another-at least I have not seen that all in the past four years.

That's great that indoor meets at North Central draw great crowds, but you can't compare the total attendance from basketball with track.  It's not close.   I get that North Central needs the space to host this meet, but when comparing between the North Central track team and the North Central basketball team, it's obvious which team people care more about, which teams gets more press coverage, which team gets talked about more on forums.

[AO]

Aren't track and cc more important at NCC?

I would say they are equally important.  There has been more success, and more sustained success, in track and cross country, but that doesn't make them more important.

equally important to who?  I must have missed all of their posts on the d3indoortrackandfield.com forum.

What's your point, AO? That the running sports are less important to a particular school just because they don't have a separate intercollegaite Internet site?

There actually are a couple of discussion boards for D3 running sports right here on d3boards.com. And, yes, NCC fans post on them.

North Central has won fifteen men's cross-country national championships, four men's indoor t&f national championships, and six men's outdoor t&f national championships, and who knows how many individual national championships in the running sports. NCC ranks in the top five among all D3 schools in team national championships, largely on the back of its thinclads and the amazing run (pun intended) that they've had since Al Carius took over the running sports at NCC almost a half-century ago. The fact that you dismiss the importance of the running sports at NCC only shows your ignorance of the school's remarkable history in those sports and the important place that they hold in the school's athletic identity.

I'm no North Central fan, but I give respect where respect is due.

If Northwestern had a roomful of Walnut & Bronze trophies in the running sports, you can be darned sure that you'd be touting them on these boards at every opportunity.

I'm measuring importance in terms of number of supporters.  Number of fans willing to pay admission.  Number of fans interested enough to visit websites to monitor their favorite teams/argue about matchups with rivals. 

How many fans would show up for a national tournament featuring 895 basketball players?  That would be like putting the entire basketball tourney in one location.

Not being mean or disrespectful, but you have no idea how track and field runs their NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS. All competitors that are eligible must run in one meet so that the elite can compete against each other. There are no series of meets leading up to the "Final Four". These competitors get one shot at a title and must (for most events) run a qualifying heat the day before finals. Only eight runners qualify for the finals and the only way to score points for your team is in the finals. Track has plenty of fans who are willing to pay to watch a meet, especially a National Championship meet. Every indoor meet at North Central draws big crowds and if you want a good seat, you need to get there early. As I said before, I love basketball and it is a shame that the team can't use it's home court,  when they have earned the right to host, but to say the National Championships are "just another track meet" is demeaning to those who participate in the sport.  Forgot to add, Kiko is right about no sport being more important than another-at least I have not seen that all in the past four years.

That's great that indoor meets at North Central draw great crowds, but you can't compare the total attendance from basketball with track.  It's not close.   I get that North Central needs the space to host this meet, but when comparing between the North Central track team and the North Central basketball team, it's obvious which team people care more about, which teams gets more press coverage, which team gets talked about more on forums.

what parallel dimension do you live in where track is bigger than basketball?

[Gregory Sager]

Have you not been following this conversation at all, AO? Are you simply dismissing posts like this from North Central supporters:

The original question was:

Aren't track and cc more important at NCC?

That has nothing to do with paid spectators, traffic on a web site, column inches in the Naperville Sun, etc.

It's interesting that the original question was assuming that track and xc *are* more important, but AO is assuming that they *aren't*.

What I can tell you is that the administration and NCC community would not consider one to be more important than the other.  Student-athlete success is student-athlete success.  Basketball is higher-profile to the general outside world (albeit in the way that a D3 sport ever will be high profile...), but the school's sustained legacy of success in track and cross country is a tremendous source of pride at North Central and helps to further the school's image to prospective students, and its success in alumni fundraising efforts.

... as being irrelevant or fictional?

What makes you the expert when it comes to North Central College? What insight do you have into that school and the people who support it? And, for crying out loud, why is your opinion about the relative importance of basketball at NCC as compared to the school's teams in the running sports more valid than the opinions of the people who actually attended the school, or who currently support it, or who have a child who is or was a student-athlete at the school?

[Mr. Ypsi]

AO, Do NOT ask that question in Eugene, Oregon, if you value your life!

We get it that you have contempt for T&F - not everyone does.

(BTW, IWU stayed NAIA in the basketball tourney [they were both NAIA and d3] for as long as they did partly because former BBall coach [then AD] Jack Horenberger was one of the founders of NAIA, but also because the 16-team NAIA tourney [in KC] was one helluva party! )

[Gregory Sager]

(BTW, IWU stayed NAIA in the basketball tourney [they were both NAIA and d3] for as long as they did partly because former BBall coach [then AD] Jack Horenberger was one of the founders of NAIA, but also because the 16-team NAIA tourney [in KC] was one helluva party! )

Chuck, you seem to be having a split-pea-soup-in-Skokie moment of your own.

[Mr. Ypsi]

(BTW, IWU stayed NAIA in the basketball tourney [they were both NAIA and d3] for as long as they did partly because former BBall coach [then AD] Jack Horenberger was one of the founders of NAIA, but also because the 16-team NAIA tourney [in KC] was one helluva party! )

Chuck, you seem to be having a split-pea-soup-in-Skokie moment of your own.

That went right over my head.

[Gregory Sager]

What I meant is that your reference to Jack Horenberger and the NAIA tournament appears to be a complete non sequitur, as was the genesis of the split-pea soup discussion back in the day.

[AO]

Have you not been following this conversation at all, AO? Are you simply dismissing posts like this from North Central supporters:

The original question was:

Aren't track and cc more important at NCC?

That has nothing to do with paid spectators, traffic on a web site, column inches in the Naperville Sun, etc.

It's interesting that the original question was assuming that track and xc *are* more important, but AO is assuming that they *aren't*.

What I can tell you is that the administration and NCC community would not consider one to be more important than the other.  Student-athlete success is student-athlete success.  Basketball is higher-profile to the general outside world (albeit in the way that a D3 sport ever will be high profile...), but the school's sustained legacy of success in track and cross country is a tremendous source of pride at North Central and helps to further the school's image to prospective students, and its success in alumni fundraising efforts.

... as being irrelevant or fictional?

What makes you the expert when it comes to North Central College? What insight do you have into that school and the people who support it? And, for crying out loud, why is your opinion about the relative importance of basketball at NCC as compared to the school's teams in the running sports more valid than the opinions of the people who actually attended the school, or who currently support it, or who have a child who is or was a student-athlete at the school?

What special insight would I need to see that more people care about the basketball team?  I take the question as asking about which sport is more important to the whole North Central community, fans, alumni, students and administration.   I don't know how you could exclude any of those groups.

AO, Do NOT ask that question in Eugene, Oregon, if you value your life!

We get it that you have contempt for T&F - not everyone does.

(BTW, IWU stayed NAIA in the basketball tourney [they were both NAIA and d3] for as long as they did partly because former BBall coach [then AD] Jack Horenberger was one of the founders of NAIA, but also because the 16-team NAIA tourney [in KC] was one helluva party! )

I don't have contempt for track and field.  All sports are not created equal.  It's ok.

just for fun, a little research into Oregon track revealed that they average about 6000 for their 6 or 7 home meets per year.   Basketball averages 7602 in 19 games this year.   Shall we compare how many fans are watching duck basketball on ESPN versus watching Duck track on the pac-12 live stream online?  The most extreme case of love for track in the country and basketball still crushes.

The 32 team NAIA D-2 tournament is still a party in Point Lookout, MO. from what I've heard from teammates who played in it before we made the move to the NCAA.

[Mr. Ypsi]

What I meant is that your reference to Jack Horenberger and the NAIA tournament appears to be a complete non sequitur, as was the genesis of the split-pea soup discussion back in the day.

That was in reference to AO talking about 895 basketball players in one location - i.e., the whole tourney in one spot.  KC WAS a blast!  (No pea soup here - though I DO love split pea soup! )

[kiko]

Have you not been following this conversation at all, AO? Are you simply dismissing posts like this from North Central supporters:

The original question was:

Aren't track and cc more important at NCC?

That has nothing to do with paid spectators, traffic on a web site, column inches in the Naperville Sun, etc.

It's interesting that the original question was assuming that track and xc *are* more important, but AO is assuming that they *aren't*.

What I can tell you is that the administration and NCC community would not consider one to be more important than the other.  Student-athlete success is student-athlete success.  Basketball is higher-profile to the general outside world (albeit in the way that a D3 sport ever will be high profile...), but the school's sustained legacy of success in track and cross country is a tremendous source of pride at North Central and helps to further the school's image to prospective students, and its success in alumni fundraising efforts.

... as being irrelevant or fictional?

What makes you the expert when it comes to North Central College? What insight do you have into that school and the people who support it? And, for crying out loud, why is your opinion about the relative importance of basketball at NCC as compared to the school's teams in the running sports more valid than the opinions of the people who actually attended the school, or who currently support it, or who have a child who is or was a student-athlete at the school?

What special insight would I need to see that more people care about the basketball team?  I take the question as asking about which sport is more important to the whole North Central community, fans, alumni, students and administration.   I don't know how you could exclude any of those groups.

AO, Do NOT ask that question in Eugene, Oregon, if you value your life!

We get it that you have contempt for T&F - not everyone does.

(BTW, IWU stayed NAIA in the basketball tourney [they were both NAIA and d3] for as long as they did partly because former BBall coach [then AD] Jack Horenberger was one of the founders of NAIA, but also because the 16-team NAIA tourney [in KC] was one helluva party! )

I don't have contempt for track and field.  All sports are not created equal.  It's ok.

just for fun, a little research into Oregon track revealed that they average about 6000 for their 6 or 7 home meets per year.   Basketball averages 7602 in 19 games this year.   Shall we compare how many fans are watching duck basketball on ESPN versus watching Duck track on the pac-12 live stream online?  The most extreme case of love for track in the country and basketball still crushes.

The 32 team NAIA D-2 tournament is still a party in Point Lookout, MO. from what I've heard from teammates who played in it before we made the move to the NCAA.

Well, if you want to talk about one measure of importance, North Central has, in recent years, rebuilt its baseball field, rebuilt its football stadium, refurbished its outdoor track, built the palace that is the Res-Rec center, which includes a brand new indoor track facility... and kept its basketball teams playing in a facility that was constructed in 1931 and would most generously be described as ... quaint.  And the basketball arena is not next up on the list.  As they say, follow the money.

[iwu70]

My friend, Ypsi, is again correct.  KC, back in the day, was a grand time, a big big party.  Quite different from the Final Four type setup at Salem.   I believe we made two trips to the KC holy land during our four years at IWU, much thanks to Tommy Gramkow, Sheldon Thompson (one year) and Fred Evans.

Looking forward to the weekend -- predicting NCC and IWU find ways to win, get through to the Sweet Sixteen.  Bracket of Death continues.

I fear Wheaton goes down vs. the Tommies in MSP.

Good luck to all CCIW teams this weekend.

IWU70