MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[iwu70]

Ran in to Eric Dortch on campus recently -- he's a great guy, very optimistic about the new season, has bulked up some, done the weight work, too.  Seems all the IWU players have put in some important work, time in the off season.  I think they know they have a great opportunity given all the talent and team depth in the upcoming season -- and that this senior group, a very strong group, wants to go out with a bang, with a tremendous season. 

IWU plays an exhibition game vs. Winona State in MN. on November 2nd.  Season opens officially on November 15th vs. Manchester at The Shirk Center, Titan Tip-off Classic/Tournament -- with Ripon and Aurora rounding out the four-team field.

IWU70 

[Gregory Sager]

I don't think it makes much difference, PS, because the high schools in the western suburbs are the CCIW version of the "burned-over district" (a term you might recognize from your church history classes at TEDS ). Every school in this league except for Wheaton targets the western suburbs for athletic recruiting -- and Wheaton gets more than its share of student-athletes from the three Wheaton high schools as well. It's therefore to be assumed that if, say, Elmhurst gets a 6'7 kid who is borderline D2/D3 material, at least one other CCIW school -- and probably several of them -- was after him as well.

Of course, the slight-but-possibly-significant difference here is that this EC news release names the other CCIW schools that the kid was considering, as opposed to the CCIW schools that were considering him. There might be more grounds for hard feelings in this instance on the part of the other CCIW coaches involved than if it was the latter rather than the former, because, as you said, it can be interpreted as a taunt. However, I don't think that that was Elmhurst SID Kevin Juday's intention at all in including the quote, and I doubt that John Baines is looking to push Raridon's or Bosko's or Grey's buttons before he's even stepped onto the court as EC's head coach. If anything, I think he's paying Raridon and Bosko and Grey a compliment here.

Toes do get stepped on in this league in terms of recruiting. I've heard some stories about CCIW head coaches regarding their losing particular prospects to rival programs, stories that don't always paint said coaches in a flattering light. And, no, I will not identify those coaches. I'm not in the mood to play bomb-thrower; I'd like to avoid a general CCIW Chat fracas two weeks before practice even starts.

Most coaches, though, are pragmatic enough to realize that recruiting is a win-some-lose-some process, and that it does absolutely no good to fume or to fulminate against a player or an opposing coach if you're the one who lost out on a prospect.

[John Gleich]

John,
I respect your experience and expertise, but I did not see it that way.  I think the comments are from a guy who wants his program to do well and is excited about this kid's decision.  And he is hoping other talent follows suit.
Just like we all wish for our respective favorite programs.
It's kind of like celebrating D1 transfers.

I was just struck by the comment initially. It's certainly possible I read it differently based on time time and temperature (or any other variable at that point). Part of why I wondered instead of just outright saying it.

I don't think that Coach Baines meant it as a snub, and I wasn't sure if any other coaches would take it as one. Knowing the quality of coaches in the league, most would rely on preparing their teams for what they're going to see and not be concerned with something a different coach said several months before the game.

I don't think it makes much difference, PS, because the high schools in the western suburbs are the CCIW version of the "burned-over district" (a term you might recognize from your church history classes at TEDS ).

Good old Finney...

Every school in this league except for Wheaton targets the western suburbs for athletic recruiting -- and Wheaton gets more than its share of student-athletes from the three Wheaton high schools as well. It's therefore to be assumed that if, say, Elmhurst gets a 6'7 kid who is borderline D2/D3 material, at least one other CCIW school -- and probably several of them -- was after him as well.

You're, of course, referring to the two Wheaton public high schools and the Wheaton private high school that's in West Chicago (not that OTHER private high school in Wheaton, hehe).

Of course, the slight-but-possibly-significant difference here is that this EC news release names the other CCIW schools that the kid was considering, as opposed to the CCIW schools that were considering him. There might be more grounds for hard feelings in this instance on the part of the other CCIW coaches involved than if it was the latter rather than the former, because, as you said, it can be interpreted as a taunt.

Yes, this is more along the lines of what I was thinking, though, interestingly, similar to what you get when kids are considering schools and they're listed in national publications (ex. ESPN rankings... considering Illinois, Michigan State, Duke, and Kentucky, etc), or even more local ones like Wisconsin Basketball Yearbook, the essential recruiting guide Nort' of the border.

But, I think there's a big difference between a list prior to a decision (so you're tellin' me there's a chance...  Yeah!!!!) and post decision.

However, I don't think that that was Elmhurst SID Kevin Juday's intention at all in including the quote, and I doubt that John Baines is looking to push Raridon's or Bosko's or Grey's buttons before he's even stepped onto the court as EC's head coach. If anything, I think he's paying Raridon and Bosko and Grey a compliment here.

A compliment, however backhanded, is still a compliment 

Toes do get stepped on in this league in terms of recruiting. I've heard some stories about CCIW head coaches regarding their losing particular prospects to rival programs, stories that don't always paint said coaches in a flattering light. And, no, I will not identify those coaches. I'm not in the mood to play bomb-thrower; I'd like to avoid a general CCIW Chat fracas two weeks before practice even starts.

I can affirm that (and leave it at that, too) from when I was recruited.

Most coaches, though, are pragmatic enough to realize that recruiting is a win-some-lose-some process, and that it does absolutely no good to fume or to fulminate against a player or an opposing coach if you're the one who lost out on a prospect.

Yep. And why dwell on what could have been, when you have a bench full of guys who actually HAVE reported for duty!

[Gregory Sager]

You're, of course, referring to the two Wheaton public high schools and the Wheaton private high school that's in West Chicago (not that OTHER private high school in Wheaton, hehe).

Touché. I get irritated when people from the 'burbs identify themselves as being "from Chicago", so in this case I suppose that I've been hoist with my own petard. I'm a city boy, and, like that other city boy Mike Royko, to me everything beyond the city limits is "the Land Beyond O'Hare".

[AndOne]

You're, of course, referring to the two Wheaton public high schools and the Wheaton private high school that's in West Chicago (not that OTHER private high school in Wheaton, hehe).

Touché. I get irritated when people from the 'burbs identify themselves as being "from Chicago", so in this case I suppose that I've been hoist with my own petard. I'm a city boy, and, like that other city boy Mike Royko, to me everything beyond the city limits is "the Land Beyond O'Hare".

Otherwise known to city dwellers as "the boonies."

Greg---I know this will come as a shock, but there actually are suburban residents who take great pains NOT to identify themselves as being from Chicago.
Granted the "big city," or "downtown" holds many attractions on many different levels, but there are citizens who like the idea of only waiting through 2 stoplight changes to get through an intersection, who feel relieved that they don't constantly have to dodge either huge buses who pull away from the curb right in front of them or crazed taxi cab drivers who think they earn bonuses for every other vehicle they put a dent in, and who are ecstatic over not having to fork over half their paycheck every time they want to park their car.
Speaking of cars---if memory serves me correctly, you don't own one. Therefore you HAVE to be a city boy as you're ineligible for suburban residency.     

[Mr. Ypsi]

You're, of course, referring to the two Wheaton public high schools and the Wheaton private high school that's in West Chicago (not that OTHER private high school in Wheaton, hehe).

Touché. I get irritated when people from the 'burbs identify themselves as being "from Chicago", so in this case I suppose that I've been hoist with my own petard. I'm a city boy, and, like that other city boy Mike Royko, to me everything beyond the city limits is "the Land Beyond O'Hare".

The one that irritates me no end is Concordia now calling itself Concordia-Chicago.  NO!  You are and always will be CURF!

[AndOne]

Amen, Mr. Ypsi.

Concordia of Chicago in River Forest. Ridiculous. LOL

Still not sure any misleading sports related name on any level can rival the famous Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim.        

[veterancciwfan]

I thought John Baines' comments were fine. Elmhurst will be a tougher W for opposing CCIW schools this season as John has great offensive coaching instincts. Regarding the early days of D3 being the best, don't forget that in the first 5-10 years, many future D3 schools were still in the NAIA. So even though there were fewer D3 programs in the early years than now, NAIA schools, many of which had 10-12 full b'ball scholarship players on their rosters, were competing with the early D3 schools for b'ball talent. Of course, the NCAA had no use for the NAIA and used its bountiful cash supply to lure many present D3 schools away from the NAIA. The NAIA had no money to give to teams for travel to the NAIA tournament. And that was a big concern for ADs who constantly struggle with budgets. But ask any NBA scout who worked in the 1970s decade which had more b'ball talent, NCAA D3 or the NAIA, and the answer will be the latter. What NPC (then) accomplished in 1978-80 was very special, I'm not denying that. I think the D3 tournament champion then had to win 5 games, not 6 as is the case now. One stat regarding the NPC run of 3 consecutive D3 championships: NPC was a combined 83-10 in the 3 years and 5 of the 10 losses were in CCIW play. What a tough league, then and now.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Can't speak for the other NAIA schools, but IWU has NEVER had athletic scholarships (even though they didn't totally transition to d3 until the late 80s or early 90s, since Jack Horenberger was one of the founding fathers of the NAIA).  We got Jack Sikma fair-and-square, no money attached, who went on to an all-star NBA career!

[markerickson]

I've told my kids and other listeners countless times that one of the best decisions I made in my life was not to buy a home in Chicago. 

[Gregory Sager]

You're, of course, referring to the two Wheaton public high schools and the Wheaton private high school that's in West Chicago (not that OTHER private high school in Wheaton, hehe).

Touché. I get irritated when people from the 'burbs identify themselves as being "from Chicago", so in this case I suppose that I've been hoist with my own petard. I'm a city boy, and, like that other city boy Mike Royko, to me everything beyond the city limits is "the Land Beyond O'Hare".

Otherwise known to city dwellers as "the boonies."

Greg---I know this will come as a shock, but there actually are suburban residents who take great pains NOT to identify themselves as being from Chicago.
Granted the "big city," or "downtown" holds many attractions on many different levels, but there are citizens who like the idea of only waiting through 2 stoplight changes to get through an intersection, who feel relieved that they don't constantly have to dodge either huge buses who pull away from the curb right in front of them or crazed taxi cab drivers who think they earn bonuses for every other vehicle they put a dent in, and who are ecstatic over not having to fork over half their paycheck every time they want to park their car.

In the immortal words of Sly Stone, different strokes for different folks.

Speaking of cars---if memory serves me correctly, you don't own one. Therefore you HAVE to be a city boy as you're ineligible for suburban residency.     

You have it backwards, Mark. The reason why I don't own a car because I live in the city, not the other way around.

I thought John Baines' comments were fine. Elmhurst will be a tougher W for opposing CCIW schools this season as John has great offensive coaching instincts. Regarding the early days of D3 being the best, don't forget that in the first 5-10 years, many future D3 schools were still in the NAIA. So even though there were fewer D3 programs in the early years than now, NAIA schools, many of which had 10-12 full b'ball scholarship players on their rosters, were competing with the early D3 schools for b'ball talent. Of course, the NCAA had no use for the NAIA and used its bountiful cash supply to lure many present D3 schools away from the NAIA. The NAIA had no money to give to teams for travel to the NAIA tournament. And that was a big concern for ADs who constantly struggle with budgets. But ask any NBA scout who worked in the 1970s decade which had more b'ball talent, NCAA D3 or the NAIA, and the answer will be the latter. What NPC (then) accomplished in 1978-80 was very special, I'm not denying that. I think the D3 tournament champion then had to win 5 games, not 6 as is the case now. One stat regarding the NPC run of 3 consecutive D3 championships: NPC was a combined 83-10 in the 3 years and 5 of the 10 losses were in CCIW play. What a tough league, then and now.

You're selling the early years of the D3 tourney short, Lanny. What you neglected to mention is that in the '70s and into the '80s D3 was chockablock with schools that later moved up to D2 and even D1, many of them mid-sized state schools akin to the WIAC institutions. The first decade of the D3 tourney included future D1 outfits UW-Milwaukee, Albany, Stony Brook, and Longwood, and future D2 schools Humboldt State, Sonoma State, Stanislaus State, Slippery Rock, Mansfield State, and LeMoyne-Owen, as well as some outstanding, long-term D3 basketball powers that went belly-up, such as Upsala and Bishop.

Also, the fact that the tourney back then only required five wins for a team to garner the Big Doorstop, as opposed to the six it takes now (except for the two teams that draw opening-round byes), really doesn't make that much of a difference for a championship-caliber team. As I recall, your Titans didn't even have to break a sweat against Maryville (MO) when they won the title in six rounds in '97. A team good enough to be the top seed will face a team so far beneath it that that top team can be on cruise control in the opening round of a six-round tourney.

[Titan Q]

The DIII News preseason poll...

http://cciw.org/custompages/CCIW_Links/General/Misc/MENTOP25.pdf

[newCCIWfan]

The DIII News preseason poll...

http://cciw.org/custompages/CCIW_Links/General/Misc/MENTOP25.pdf

Not sure what to think of a publication that has Clayton Whitlock, MacMurray, Jr as a "honorable mention all-American" (http://cciw.org/custompages/CCIW_Links/General/Misc/MENPSAA.pdf) and nary a mention of Tyler Peters or Nathan Haynes from Wheaton, or Dylan Overstreet or Victor Davis from IWU (could probably make a legitimate argument for 3 or 4 other Titans), or Ben Ryan from Augustana.

[Gregory Sager]

The DIII News preseason poll...

http://cciw.org/custompages/CCIW_Links/General/Misc/MENTOP25.pdf

Not sure what to think of a publication that has Clayton Whitlock, MacMurray, Jr as a "honorable mention all-American" (http://cciw.org/custompages/CCIW_Links/General/Misc/MENPSAA.pdf) and nary a mention of Tyler Peters or Nathan Haynes from Wheaton, or Dylan Overstreet or Victor Davis from IWU (could probably make a legitimate argument for 3 or 4 other Titans), or Ben Ryan from Augustana.

I know what to think, and I'll come out and say it: The DIII News preseason "fact" sheet (sneer quotes mine) is worthless.

I mean, c'mon ... Morrisville State? Staten Island? Lakeland? Ithaca? Only two WIAC schools, with the higher one only ranked eleventh? Give me a break. And even the most diehard Cardinals fan would demur to picking North Central as the 13th-ranked team in the nation in the wake of losing Derek Raridon, Aaron Tiknis, and Charlie Rosenberg. (I noticed that NCC SID Clark Teuscher put out a news release regarding the DIII News ranking, but, hey, Clark was just doing his job.)

Once again, as I said in the wake of the Sporting News poll being linked here, the only D3 men's basketball preseason poll that has a legitimate level of insider knowledge behind it is the d3hoops.com preseason poll.

[AndOne]

The DIII News preseason poll...

http://cciw.org/custompages/CCIW_Links/General/Misc/MENTOP25.pdf

Not sure what to think of a publication that has Clayton Whitlock, MacMurray, Jr as a "honorable mention all-American" (http://cciw.org/custompages/CCIW_Links/General/Misc/MENPSAA.pdf) and nary a mention of Tyler Peters or Nathan Haynes from Wheaton, or Dylan Overstreet or Victor Davis from IWU (could probably make a legitimate argument for 3 or 4 other Titans), or Ben Ryan from Augustana.

I know what to think, and I'll come out and say it: The DIII News preseason "fact" sheet (sneer quotes mine) is worthless.

I mean, c'mon ... Morrisville State? Staten Island? Lakeland? Ithaca? Only two WIAC schools, with the higher one only ranked eleventh? Give me a break. And even the most diehard Cardinals fan would demur to picking North Central as the 13th-ranked team in the nation in the wake of losing Derek Raridon, Aaron Tiknis, and Charlie Rosenberg.

True, true, and.....................................TRUE!   

No higher initially than #14 at best!