MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

Carthage put up a heckuva fight tonight and would have subdued many teams.  Stritch has some excellent three-point shooters and that was the difference (Stritch hit two threes near the end when a miss would have buried them).  It's hard to tell over the internet how good a team is, but I think Stritch would definitely do well in the CCIW (how do you guys rate NAIA D2 vs. NCAA D3 anyway?). 

I believe Cardinal Stritch would be right in the middle of the CCIW title picture this year.  That was a really good showing by Carthage tonight.  I watched a lot of that game online - the Red Men are much improved this year.  Carthage is going to give a lot of teams trouble.  I do think Carthage is too thin in the low post though - that will hurt them.

I usually consider the top 5 of NAIA D2 to be very even with the top 5 of NCAA D3 - I don't see much separation there.  I believe the top 5 of NAIA D1 is significantly better than the top 5 of NCAA D3.  The elite NAIA D1 teams would typically be competitive with good NCAA D2 teams.

With regard to the above question, keep in mind that historically, many kids that CCIW and other local D3 teams recruit are also being recruited by NAIA D2 teams.

[oldknight]

Question for you CCIW board regulars. I watched portions of the Chicago/Wheaton game and it was obvious that the Thunder was going to win this game without a lot of trouble. I noticed that Wheaton star Tyler Peters played the entire second half until going to the bench with just over a minute left. Does Coach Schauer typically leave his star in the game when it's been well in hand for pretty much the entire final 20 minutes? Just curious because it struck me as odd.

[WheatonFanChris]

Question for you CCIW board regulars. I watched portions of the Chicago/Wheaton game and it was obvious that the Thunder was going to win this game without a lot of trouble. I noticed that Wheaton star Tyler Peters played the entire second half until going to the bench with just over a minute left. Does Coach Schauer typically leave his star in the game when it's been well in hand for pretty much the entire final 20 minutes? Just curious because it struck me as odd.

My view of the large minutes, especially for Peters, is that the Thunder hadn't played in 10 days and wanted to get some game legs back under them. Just my opinion though.

Schauer in general doesn't leave Peters, etc in past the 3 or 4 minute mark in a game like that

[WheatonFanChris]

A couple notables from the Thunder win over Chicago:

1. As said above, Tyler Peters comes up with his second triple-double of the year with 25, 12 boards, and 10 assists, but perhaps the most important number is only for Tyler was only 3 turnovers. This was likely his best game from beginning to end so far this year.

2. After opening up a 16-0 lead, this game was never in question (Chicago got it back to 12 at one point in the second).

3. Joel Smith got the start at the 4 (8 pts, 3 rebs) in place of Michael Berg (4 pts, 2 rebs). Seems like Joel has a quick shot from beyond the arc.

4. Schauer has called this start to the year "the worst coaching job I've done in my career." The bulk of this emphasis is in not pushing Peters hard enough.

[USee]

Here is the link to the video of Schauer's comments:
http://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/2013/12/4/MBB_1204131553.aspx?path=mbball

"Tyler...has turned the ball over too much..."

[AndOne]

Question for you CCIW board regulars. I watched portions of the Chicago/Wheaton game and it was obvious that the Thunder was going to win this game without a lot of trouble. I noticed that Wheaton star Tyler Peters played the entire second half until going to the bench with just over a minute left. Does Coach Schauer typically leave his star in the game when it's been well in hand for pretty much the entire final 20 minutes? Just curious because it struck me as odd.

My view of the large minutes, especially for Peters, is that the Thunder hadn't played in 10 days and wanted to get some game legs back under them. Just my opinion though.

Schauer in general doesn't leave Peters, etc in past the 3 or 4 minute mark in a game like that

Oldknight---

I'm not sure what the norm is for top level players on the team/conference you primarily follow, but All-American Tyler Peters typically plays big minutes no matter the point differential. Last season he averaged 33 minutes a game. With Wheaton's record, there were no doubt several games he could have come out of earlier without jeopardizing Wheaton's lead and eventual victory. This year, on 11/22, Wheaton had a 25 point win over Spalding. In that game Peters played 36 minutes despite the fact that Wheaton had a very difficult opponent in Wooster scheduled the very next night. Bottom line, it seems pretty "typical" that he plays between 82.5% and 90% of almost every game. 

[AndOne]

Here is the link to the video of Schauer's comments:
http://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/2013/12/4/MBB_1204131553.aspx?path=mbball

"Tyler...has turned the ball over too much..."

USee---

As a close WC observer, IS he playing too many minutes? Do you anticipate he will continue to average the same minutes?

Note-Peters registered a triple double tonight. His 10th assist, to complete the feat, came with only 1:27 remaining so it was fortunate he played the minutes he did.

[Titan Q]

It seems odd to me that Mike Schauer would play Tyler Peters that many minutes in a blowout.  Wheaton is by no means a one man team (they have several good players), but absolutely everything Wheaton does offensively revolves around Peters.  If you take Peters off this Wheaton team, quite frankly, they wouldn't be that good.

So why would Schauer want to play Peters a single minute more than he has too, and risk injury? 

[oldknight]

It seems odd to me that Mike Schauer would play Tyler Peters that many minutes in a blowout.  Wheaton is by no means a one man team (they have several good players), but absolutely everything Wheaton does offensively revolves around Peters.  If you take Peters off this Wheaton team, quite frankly, they wouldn't be that good.

So why would Schauer want to play Peters a single minute more than he has too, and risk injury?

Peters is a terrific player but I don't see much to be gained by letting him play that long in a game Wheaton is winning so easily. I also thought Coach Schauer's post game comment that Peters got a triple double "in only 36 minutes" was odd. Only 36 minutes?

[Flying Dutch Fan]

It seems odd to me that Mike Schauer would play Tyler Peters that many minutes in a blowout.  Wheaton is by no means a one man team (they have several good players), but absolutely everything Wheaton does offensively revolves around Peters.  If you take Peters off this Wheaton team, quite frankly, they wouldn't be that good.

So why would Schauer want to play Peters a single minute more than he has too, and risk injury?

Peters is a terrific player but I don't see much to be gained by letting him play that long in a game Wheaton is winning so easily. I also thought Coach Schauer's post game comment that Peters got a triple double "in only 36 minutes" was odd. Only 36 minutes?

I'm also a bit surpirsed he played that many minutes - considering the Thunder will play 3 games in under 72 hours (with a 6pm Friday versus Hope and 3pm Saturday at Calvin for the MIAA/CCIW Challenge).

[URockets]

Carthage put up a heckuva fight tonight and would have subdued many teams.  Stritch has some excellent three-point shooters and that was the difference (Stritch hit two threes near the end when a miss would have buried them).  It's hard to tell over the internet how good a team is, but I think Stritch would definitely do well in the CCIW (how do you guys rate NAIA D2 vs. NCAA D3 anyway?). 

I believe Cardinal Stritch would be right in the middle of the CCIW title picture this year.  That was a really good showing by Carthage tonight.  I watched a lot of that game online - the Red Men are much improved this year.  Carthage is going to give a lot of teams trouble.  I do think Carthage is too thin in the low post though - that will hurt them.

I usually consider the top 5 of NAIA D2 to be very even with the top 5 of NCAA D3 - I don't see much separation there.  I believe the top 5 of NAIA D1 is significantly better than the top 5 of NCAA D3.  The elite NAIA D1 teams would typically be competitive with good NCAA D2 teams.

With regard to the above question, keep in mind that historically, many kids that CCIW and other local D3 teams recruit are also being recruited by NAIA D2 teams.

I'm glad someone brought this up.  This is exactly what I see from kids that get recruited at the local high schools in my area.....I would think D3 would be at a disadvantage with the partial to full athletic scholarship $$ that NAIA can offer.  That was the difference recently for a couple of highly D3 recruited players that I know......Came down to one D3 school and one NAIA school; all things were equal in their interest......So who is going to turn down school B that is 50 to 100% cheaper?  Most can't afford that luxury.

[toooldtohoop]

Possible reasons for Peters' playing time:

1.  Wheaton's last game was Nov 23, and the team was off all of Thanksgiving weekend.  They are rested and need the work.
2.  They have been playing below expectations and need the work.
3.  Tyler played his best game of the year last night and hopefully was able to reinforce some things Schauer has been telling him by playing extended minutes.
4.  Chicago made a small run in the second half, that prevented Wheaton from subbing as early as you might expect.
5.  Other Wheaton starters got in early foul trouble, therefore substitution patterns changed.  Tyler avoided foul trouble last night and was needed on the floor.
6.  Could be that Schauer remembered a game last year when Wheaton almost came back very late from a deficit against IWU?
7.  Chicago waited until about the 2 minute mark to mass substitute.  Wheaton then followed.

[AndOne]

tooold---

1. With 10 minutes left, the Weenies were up by 17. With 8 left they were still up by the same margin. Chicago was really not gaining anything while losing time. Time for the All-American to come out. Still too close? How about with 6 minutes remaining the WC lead had been upped to 21?

2. As far as a player or players who might "need the work," why not put in a sub and let him begin to recondition himself after the layoff, as in the group of games coming up you might need to call upon him and/or others due to injury, foul trouble, etc.

3. I think the telling remark came from Coach Schauer---He got the triple-double "in only 36 minutes." But, gee coach, there are only 40 minutes in the game.   

Evidently Schauer doesn't think playing his star 36 of 40 minutes in a 23 point blowout is too much. However, should this pattern continue, it might prove costly in the long run, say at conference or national tourney time.
Kind of the same scenario as a baseball manager who overuses his ace throughout the early and middle parts of the season, and is then surprised when the star's arm is dead come time for the stretch run. 

[AndOne]

Carthage put up a heckuva fight tonight and would have subdued many teams.  Stritch has some excellent three-point shooters and that was the difference (Stritch hit two threes near the end when a miss would have buried them).  It's hard to tell over the internet how good a team is, but I think Stritch would definitely do well in the CCIW (how do you guys rate NAIA D2 vs. NCAA D3 anyway?). 

I believe Cardinal Stritch would be right in the middle of the CCIW title picture this year.  That was a really good showing by Carthage tonight.  I watched a lot of that game online - the Red Men are much improved this year.  Carthage is going to give a lot of teams trouble.  I do think Carthage is too thin in the low post though - that will hurt them.

I usually consider the top 5 of NAIA D2 to be very even with the top 5 of NCAA D3 - I don't see much separation there.  I believe the top 5 of NAIA D1 is significantly better than the top 5 of NCAA D3.  The elite NAIA D1 teams would typically be competitive with good NCAA D2 teams.

With regard to the above question, keep in mind that historically, many kids that CCIW and other local D3 teams recruit are also being recruited by NAIA D2 teams.

I'm glad someone brought this up.  This is exactly what I see from kids that get recruited at the local high schools in my area.....I would think D3 would be at a disadvantage with the partial to full athletic scholarship $$ that NAIA can offer.  That was the difference recently for a couple of highly D3 recruited players that I know......Came down to one D3 school and one NAIA school; all things were equal in their interest......So who is going to turn down school B that is 50 to 100% cheaper?  Most can't afford that luxury.

The rosters of the Chicagoland NAIA schools are all sprinkled with players who were recruited by a number of  D3s, both with and without CCIW affiliation. Local/midwest D3s also occasionally lose a recruit to an NAIA program not only in the Chicago area, but in a neighboring state.
Even within the ranks of D3, cost often plays a role as I am personally aware of 2 players who this school year are playing at the least expensive D3 school by which they were recruited last season.

[USee]

I am a football guy (sort of) so I dont' have a lot to add to the Peter's minutes saga. I would suggest we are all over thinking it. My observation has been that Schauer's main guys have always played heavy minutes, he also has a history of getting them out of blowout games (later than most) and his comments on the post game would suggest he was making a point to TP in this specific instance about pushing him (and the team).

I wouldn't expect to see a repeat of this when Wheaton is leading by 20 vs Hope AND Calvin this weekend!