MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

Sure would have been nice to escape Kenosha with a win.  Hats off to Carthage.  Wheaton just could not close the deal.  Too many wasted possessions, early shot decisions, and missed shots down the stretch.

And Gramps (Mr. Ha), made some shots that really were impressive. 

Carthage will continue to be a hard team to beat if they can keep playing this way.

Last night's game in the Toolshed was what I like to call a "separation game". Nothing is for certain, of course, but I think it's a strong likelihood that when Augie and Wesleyan visit Kenosha they will cross back across the cheddar curtain with Ws in their back pockets.

I've said all along that Carthage is my pick for fourth this year, but I'm even more certain that Wheaton is a solid third.

[iwu70]

I'm with Greg on having a very high regard for Nick Sanford.

IWU70

[bopol]

Personally, after watching Carthage move well against NC and taking them apart like they did, I was not happy with Carthage's offensive effort against Wheaton.  Too much standing around waiting for Malcolm to come through with big shot after big shot--reminded me of the Steve D era offense.  Carthage also didn't shoot well from the line, which WOULD have cost them the game if Wheaton had been able to hit a few shots in the last 7 minutes.  I will give the Red Men credit, they battled to stay in the game throughout the first half and at the beginning of the second.

I'm glad they play two halves in college hoops though...Wheaton played a lot better in the first half and looked like a very tough team to beat.  They answered every Carthage run with a run of their own.  I was very impressed with their 1st half performance.

The North Central game was Carthage clicking on all cylinders and the best or second best game they played all year (Wash U was also fabulous).  The Wheaton game was Carthage getting the win against a very good team without playing their absolute best.  Yes, the offense wasn't quite clicking the 2nd half, but Malcom Kelly kept the offense going in the 2nd half and Marlon Senior was clutch at the line.  Keep in mind that Mike Kastel was in foul trouble most of the game and only played 23 minutes and Donte Logan had foul trouble as well. 

I'm convinced Carthage can play with (and possibly beat) anyone at the top of their game, and I'm certainly less convinced than Mr. Sager that Augie and IWU will escape from Carthage unscathed this year, but getting the win against a very, very good Wheaton team with the team having a touch less their best stuff was pretty awesome.  This is a really fun team to watch.

[veterancciwfan]

Massey has Wheaton at #21. The CCIW is the usual tough league with Massey's #3, 4, and #21 best teams. But we all know that. Bosko is a great coach (current CCIW conf. games record = .661%) and winning at Carthage will not be easy.  Same for Giovanine whose current CCIW conf. record = .670. These stats do not include CCIW tournament games. I will be surprised if Augustana loses a home conf. game.

[AppletonRocks]

Personally, after watching Carthage move well against NC and taking them apart like they did, I was not happy with Carthage's offensive effort against Wheaton.  Too much standing around waiting for Malcolm to come through with big shot after big shot--reminded me of the Steve D era offense.  Carthage also didn't shoot well from the line, which WOULD have cost them the game if Wheaton had been able to hit a few shots in the last 7 minutes.  I will give the Red Men credit, they battled to stay in the game throughout the first half and at the beginning of the second.

I'm glad they play two halves in college hoops though...Wheaton played a lot better in the first half and looked like a very tough team to beat.  They answered every Carthage run with a run of their own.  I was very impressed with their 1st half performance.

The North Central game was Carthage clicking on all cylinders and the best or second best game they played all year (Wash U was also fabulous).  The Wheaton game was Carthage getting the win against a very good team without playing their absolute best.  Yes, the offense wasn't quite clicking the 2nd half, but Malcom Kelly kept the offense going in the 2nd half and Marlon Senior was clutch at the line.  Keep in mind that Mike Kastel was in foul trouble most of the game and only played 23 minutes and Donte Logan had foul trouble as well. 

I'm convinced Carthage can play with (and possibly beat) anyone at the top of their game, and I'm certainly less convinced than Mr. Sager that Augie and IWU will escape from Carthage unscathed this year, but getting the win against a very, very good Wheaton team with the team having a touch less their best stuff was pretty awesome.  This is a really fun team to watch.

I agree--Carthage is to be reckoned with !!

[Gregory Sager]

I never said that it would be easy for anyone to win at Carthage this season, Augie and Wesleyan included. But I do think that those teams are legitimate favorites against the Red Men this season in Kenosha. Massey has a Titans win as a 77% likelihood at Tarble Arena (predicted score of 78-71), and Augie as a 74% probability to be the winner of the AC @ CC game, with a 72-65 score predicted. Massey's hardly a foolproof prognosticative device, of course, but enough data has entered into the computations by now for Massey to be a good rough indicator -- and a three-out-of-four chance that IWU will win in the Toolshed, followed by a three-out-of-four chance that Augie will win there as well, makes those visitors legitimate favorites.

[AndOne]

Ha!^^^

Ha!

Come on now Malcom. You're a prominent player in CCIW basketball contests. But, if you want to play in the big leagues of D3Hoops posting, you need to start composing posts that contain a few more words than a singular "Ha," and that provide either a little insight/analysis with regard to game action in which you have participated, or an opinion concerning whatever topic might be under discussion at the time.

Granted, you may be handicapped to some degree by the fact that you attend the CCIW school located north of the cheese curd line, but I'm sure you can be at least a bit more detailed, insightful, and/or opinionated with your postings. 

Can I please NOT get another "Ha"? 

[bopol]

I never said that it would be easy for anyone to win at Carthage this season, Augie and Wesleyan included. But I do think that those teams are legitimate favorites against the Red Men this season in Kenosha. Massey has a Titans win as a 77% likelihood at Tarble Arena (predicted score of 78-71), and Augie as a 74% probability to be the winner of the AC @ CC game, with a 72-65 score predicted. Massey's hardly a foolproof prognosticative device, of course, but enough data has entered into the computations by now for Massey to be a good rough indicator -- and a three-out-of-four chance that IWU will win in the Toolshed, followed by a three-out-of-four chance that Augie will win there as well, makes those visitors legitimate favorites.

I don't care about probabilities from Massey as much.  Carthage tends to play at the level of their opponents and that has hurt them in Massey (how do you factor in that Carthage can beat Wash U and then have trouble putting away NPU; it's just the type of team they are).  Besides, Massey includes games where Malcom Kelly wasn't playing and Mike Kastel was playing his first basketball in four years.  They are dynamic.  But your point is taken.

What I don't understand is the 'Toolshed'?  Who calls it that besides you?  I have never heard anyone else call it the Toolshed.  Am I missing something here?

[Gregory Sager]

[AndOne]

New Massey top 5:

1. UWSP
2. Wooster
3. IWU
4. Augustana
5. Cabrini

OK, IWU and Augie both have 2 losses. IWU to Loras and Augie, and Augie to Platteville, and current D3Hoops #21, Wheaton. Yet, despite the fact Augie beat Wesleyan in head to head competition, Massey ranks IWU above Augie.

Perhaps Mr Massey and Ron Rose are best buddies. Otherwise, I'm at a loss as to why IWU is #3, and Augie #4 rather than vice versa. Especially, given Augie's win over the Greenies.

Can any of our scholarly posters explain this to me? Thanks.

[kiko]

I never said that it would be easy for anyone to win at Carthage this season, Augie and Wesleyan included. But I do think that those teams are legitimate favorites against the Red Men this season in Kenosha. Massey has a Titans win as a 77% likelihood at Tarble Arena (predicted score of 78-71), and Augie as a 74% probability to be the winner of the AC @ CC game, with a 72-65 score predicted. Massey's hardly a foolproof prognosticative device, of course, but enough data has entered into the computations by now for Massey to be a good rough indicator -- and a three-out-of-four chance that IWU will win in the Toolshed, followed by a three-out-of-four chance that Augie will win there as well, makes those visitors legitimate favorites.

I don't care about probabilities from Massey as much.  Carthage tends to play at the level of their opponents and that has hurt them in Massey (how do you factor in that Carthage can beat Wash U and then have trouble putting away NPU; it's just the type of team they are).  Besides, Massey includes games where Malcom Kelly wasn't playing and Mike Kastel was playing his first basketball in four years.  They are dynamic.  But your point is taken.

What I don't understand is the 'Toolshed'?  Who calls it that besides you?  I have never heard anyone else call it the Toolshed.  Am I missing something here?

Given Gregory's references to the Cheddar Curtain -- which as a FIB has long been part of my vocabulary -- perhaps it should be "The Mousetrap". 

[Gregory Sager]

I usually call the Cheddar Curtain the Halas-Lombardi Line, kiko, but I try to mix it up every now and then.

[bopol]

So, this is your own little invention?

[iwu70]

I think getting a win @Kenosha this year is going to be very difficult -- almost as difficult as Carver.  If Gramps is on his game, it's a bit of a man against the boys.  (Sorry Gramps!).  I'd be delighted to see the Titans flee south of the Cheese Curd curtain with a W in their Greenie pockets.  Carthage might even be #3 in the league, not #4.

Seems most of us had NCC higher, but now we don't.

IWU70

P.S.  "Toolshed" reference has been around a long, long time -- and the "Crackerbox" and the "The Hanger" and "The Shirk" etc.  ms

[Gregory Sager]

So, this is your own little invention?

Yes.

Got a problem with it?