MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

The Carthage upset of Illinois Wesleyan was certainly a surprise, although a happy one for CCIW followers who don't have a lot of green in their wardrobe. But the result last night that actually shocked me was Elmhurst's win over Augustana. Not simply the fact that Elmhurst won the game, although that's shocking enough. It's the fact that the 'jays scored 83 points that shocked me. How often does anybody score that much against Grey's boys? It's the most that anyone's scored against Augie in thirty games, and it's only the third time this decade that an opponent has topped the 80 mark in regulation against the Doggies. That's a hugely impressive accomplishment in and of itself, completely apart from the fact that Elmhurst won the game.

I've seen the Bluejays a couple of times online and, of course, live once. I had not been the least bit impressed by them. But John Baines apparently got a hold of some serious mojo this week, because the 'jays are flying in a way that I just didn't see them capable of doing at all.

Augustana    5-2
Carthage      5-2
Ill. Wes.        5-2
Wheaton      5-2


Does 10-4 earn you a piece of the CCIW Championship?

I don't think so.  I'm pretty confident it will take 11-3.

I agree with Bob. You have to go all the way back to Millikin's 1982-83 title to find a CCIW champion that had four conference losses. While it's entirely possible that someone could run the table in the second round-robin and finish 12-2, I believe that 11-3 will win the league.

[A Lover of the Game]

mwunder,

Thank you for providing phone numbers for ALOTG and anyone else who witnessed the alleged behaviors. 

That said, she did not in any way detract from a great performance by the Carthage team.  And surely calling out poor sportsmanship is not out of place on this board.  Chanting or calling out things that could even be interpreted as racist goes way beyond poor sportsmanship, anyway.  The CCIW feels strongly enough about such behaviors to have a statement read at each game.

"he said, she said..."?  Please, just leave this.

She made NO MENTION of the game played ON THE COURT.  Here was her contribution to the board regarding the game.  "That shoulder dip by Kelly was blatant and add in that push off a few minutes ago."  Thanks for that wonderful insight!

As for the "He said, she said."  She states in a post that, "Another spectator, who couldn't hear what the students were chanting, said she felt it was offensive and that she saw the Ass. AD laugh while talking to me. "  Once again, an incoherent post that seemingly contradicts itself.  So we're to believe that the person who couldn't hear felt that it was offensive even though she couldn't hear it?  I mean, come on....make sense anyway.

If the Assistant AD did indeed laugh at her for her objections, then shame on him and the kids who were chanting it.  You're right Hoosier Titan, the NCAA does promote good sportsmanship before all athletic events.  And, if indeed the allegations are true, certain members of the Carthage student section should have been escorted out of the game and possibly suspended for their actions.  I'm sure if certain members of this board actually follow through (instead of just posting behind a keyboard) with Robert Bonn and Bosko, that actions will be taken against the Assistant AD and possibly the students.


As for the game itself....
--IWU needs to defend better around the perimeter. 
--Andrew Ziemnik is a beast.  Love his game.  Does all the little things, some teachable and some not, that make him a complete DIII ball player. 
--IWU has a ton of depth.  When you can go 9 deep and not see a whole lot of drop-off in play, you're a lucky fan base. 
--I don't know why other teams can't stop the IWU in-bounds plays under the basket, but darn they are affective there.  They have always been able to get bunnies from there.  And, when they don't get a bunny, they get a wide open look at a 3 (which AZ buried) in the second half.
--There were a few possessions in the second half during the IWU run where AZ and Overstreet (I believe) had a very nice two-man, inside, outside, game going.  Tough to defend that.

--For Carthage, I think Marlon stepping up and getting 15 in the first half was key.  It's a lot easier to defend one scorer.  And Marlon made sure that Kelly wasn't the only IWU worry.
--Shooting 9 of 13 from behind the arc in the first half certainly helped.  See point 1 for IWU.

Very chippy ball game.  A number of times, Kelly and Soderman had stare downs.  Davis was chirping at Kelly after a foul in the lane in the second half as well.  To say both teams wanted this game, is an understatement.

Going by the TitanQ math however, all Carthage did was win a home game.  That's what you HAVE to do to be a contender in this league.

What I am about to say is contradicting because I said I would not entertain further posts from you (on this subject matter, that is). The parent asked me what the students said. I told her and she agreed that the chant was offensive. Thank you to those of you who understand my issue and spoke on it. Now, back to the Dick Vitale's of this board for some real ball conversation. 

[Gregory Sager]

Now, back to the Dick Vitale's of this board for some real ball conversation. 

If I ever use the phrases "diaper dandy", "PTPer", or "dipsy-doo dunk-a-roo", please shoot me in the head.

[Gregory Sager]

Is malcom kelly going to be the MOP of the league with only playing second half of the season?  Only peters has numbers that would compare....
I dont see anyone else in the discussion really? thoughts?

I'm pretty sure that conference awards, MOP included, only take into consideration league play. Therefore, Malcom Kelly's absence during Carthage's earliest non-conference games are irrelevant for MOP purposes.

[carthage guy]

Sager

Thats what i always remembered about league awards.. Conference games only...

I like Q's plus minus conversation with regards to winning the league... At  midpoint it appears iWu has the easiest schedule relatively speaking.

After seeing everyone now..... I still like IWU to win this thing at probably 11-3.. I see Carthage and Wheaton very close with Augie like I mentioned in an earlier post prolly 9-5.. 

I hope that a month from now us Carthage folk arent blaming a couple bad calls and sleepy first half against elmhurst from missing the national tournament

[iwumichigander]

AgainstElmhurst, Augie could not buy a bucket under the basket, even bunnies.  Uncharacteristic.  Bluejays really executed their transition game as well. Had Hunter Hill not had a personal run in the second half the differential probably would have been wider from what I saw.

Baines has brought Elmhurst along a little faster than I expected but along way to go.  Potential there but disciplined execution still lacking.   

[iwu70]

Congrats to John Baines on the big win by EC over Augie.  I agree with Greg that is was most impressive, especially the point total against the normally tough and stingy Doggies.  John Baines had a great mentor in coaching at IWU.  Just say'in.  Plus he has a great Mom too! 

In the first half, I would vote for Gramps over Peters for the MOP.  HA!  He's played big in the big games.  Of course, much more to go before the All-Conference and MOP voting takes places.  Peters surely in the mix, perhaps Hunter Hill if AC wins the title, and someone from IWU too, if the Titans win.  Just hard to know who to name as the Titans have such balance and a well-distributed offensive scheme.  I know, I know.  MOP is the MOP, not an award for the title winner.  (No rebukes or objections required!). 

I like the schedule IWU has the rest of the way -- but no easy games at all -- as Elmhurst and Carthage have shown.  NPU and MU may surprise too.   More surprises, more upsets to come.  I said there might be 5-6 of these games, and I'll stand by that.  Also, I'll stick with 11-3 as well.  Time will tell, but only 4 weeks to go now before conference tournament and selection day comes.

One of the other keys to IWU's loss on Saturday was that they didn't get much of a spark off their bench -- not as much as usual from Mayberger, Nelson, and Dolan.  Titans need that when the starters are taking a few minutes rest.  Zimmer was a good spark, briefly.  Also, still not much solid or useful contribution from the 5 position -- Marietti or Anderson.  Overstreet's penetration and scoring was better than his normal good game.  His intermediate and post up game is improving over the season. 

Titans have four games now in the warm confines of The Shirk -- gotta go 4-0 there, protect the home court.  Key game upcoming is Augie at home. 

On the behavior at the IWU-CC game, I think it was very appropriate for Lover of the Game to bring this to our attention and also let the CC sports administrators know what transpired.  No one is taking away anything from Carthage's win on the court, but everyone should be concerned about any racist chanting or "letting it pass" with a knowing smile by someone in authority.  "Not in our town," -- and not in our league, not on our campuses either. 

Look forward to the second half -- and wish all teams good luck, no injuries and an excellent second half of tough, good CCIW competition. 

GO TITANS!!!

IWU'70

[veterancciwfan]

What has happened to Ben Ryan? He had 7 points in 34 minutes vs. Elmhurst (but he had 8 RBs). Augustana again played poorly on the road. 23 points at half almost always results in a long trip back to Rock Island. They shot only 31% from floor and only 29% on 3s. Hunter Hill made all of the team total of 5 3s. Regarding surrendering 80 points, my belief is that Augustana, of all CCIW teams, suffers the most due to the new hand checking rules. Augie practically mugged Overstreet last year at Shirk in the CCIW tournament. That's usually not tolerated this year. I'll raise this point which always draws a rebuke from Greg. But IWU consistently draws the largest Saturday road crowd. The attendance at Tarble was 2,025. IWU is every team's #1 home game target. For example, the attendance on Jan. 11 vs. NCC was only 1,125. My prediction is that Carthage will not top 1,200 in attendance for their remaining Sat. home games. Regarding Bosko's red pants, I think he needs to aim higher. I'd love to see him in the scarlet suit Joe Pesci wore in My Cousin Vinny. That would be perfect for the Feb. 15th game at Shirk. Congrats to John Baines. He simply outscored Augustana. Gee, what a shock for someone who played for Bridges!
Comment I heard from an IWU player's father: Malcom Kelly is the best player in the league. He's right. So smooth. I love the way he flips the ball over his head to a teammate when he's doubled near half-court. So nonchalant and entertaining. Last thing: I won't tolerate any more stupid sayings by Dickie V (my name for him is diarrhea mouth) on this site. Life is too short.

[Gregory Sager]

I'll raise this point which always draws a rebuke from Greg. But IWU consistently draws the largest Saturday road crowd.

I don't ever remember arguing against that. Illinois Wesleyan's fan base travels better than anyone else's in the league, and it's therefore natural that the Titans are the league's best road draw. That's especially going to be true in a season in which IWU has been a top ten team since the preseason poll.

Augie practically mugged Overstreet last year at Shirk in the CCIW tournament.

... which reminds me of the other thing that the Illinois Wesleyan fan base does more of than any other fan base in the league.

[AppletonRocks]

I'll raise this point which always draws a rebuke from Greg. But IWU consistently draws the largest Saturday road crowd.

I don't ever remember arguing against that. Illinois Wesleyan's fan base travels better than anyone else's in the league, and it's therefore natural that the Titans are the league's best road draw. That's especially going to be true in a season in which IWU has been a top ten team since the preseason poll.

Augie practically mugged Overstreet last year at Shirk in the CCIW tournament.

... which reminds me of the other thing that the Illinois Wesleyan fan base does more of than any other fan base in the league.

True dat. 

[titanhammer]

Because I was officiating at a much lower level on Saturday night, I was only able to see the second half.  What I think some of the previous posts were referring to were the offensive foul/no call situations.  Marlon "flopped" (went down voluntarily with contact...something I won't deny to have learned) and received the call from the officials after Victor made a move.  Not saying it was an inaccurate call.  On the other end, Malcolm did the same to Jordan and there was no call.  I am saying that was a bad no call.  I'm not saying these made the difference in the game, I'm not saying they didn't.  I will say that this is the most physical game I've seen the referees let occur, from my computer screen...this year, by far.  I couldn't recognize the officials via the stream...were they regular CCIW officials?
I was impressed with Carthage and how well they played.  Looking forward to when they visit The Shirk.  Didn't get a close enough look to be impressed with Coach Bosko's pants (I'm partially color blind) and/or tan.

[Gregory Sager]

I couldn't recognize the officials via the stream...were they regular CCIW officials?

Gerald Morrow and Tom Flynn have each worn the stripes for many a CCIW game over the years. I think that Thad Hilliard is more Wisconsin-based. I've seen him in WIAC box scores before, although I'm pretty sure that he's done CCIW games as well in the past.

[iwu70]

I, for one, would love to see other CCIW programs, fan bases, travel better and have a bigger presence at The Shirk (and other away venues) when their teams come to town.  When at the Shirk, I often sit just on the edge of the IWU fan area and the area designated for the visiting fans.  Rarely, if ever, are there more than a few dozen fans from the visiting schools.  A few parents, some members of the JV or women's squads waiting for the bus.  We have such a great arena and always a good atmosphere with a strong home team program, and the best pep band in Division III, so hope more CCIW fans visit the Shirk in the future.  Very glad to see the big turnouts recently at The Shirk, a few games with over 2000.  Four home games in a row now -- so time for a significant level of support in the warm confines of Shirk Center -- esp. with it -30 or worse outside.  The Polar Vortex still misbehav'in. 


********

On a short musical note, the leading soprano in the world today, Dawn Upshaw, IWU'82, did win the Grammy -- nominated five times, five times a Grammy winner over the past 7-8 years.  Some serious Titan talent.  Pretty awesome. . . (and, on top of it, that album won two other Grammy's).  Yes, proudly wearing my Green-colored, IWU-promoting glasses today, the day after the Grammy's.  (I can tell you her album is not Daft Punk or Taylor Swift). 

Go TITANS -- all of them!

IWU70

[mwunder]

Because I was officiating at a much lower level on Saturday night, I was only able to see the second half.  What I think some of the previous posts were referring to were the offensive foul/no call situations.  Marlon "flopped" (went down voluntarily with contact...something I won't deny to have learned) and received the call from the officials after Victor made a move.  Not saying it was an inaccurate call.  On the other end, Malcolm did the same to Jordan and there was no call.  I am saying that was a bad no call.  I'm not saying these made the difference in the game, I'm not saying they didn't.  I will say that this is the most physical game I've seen the referees let occur, from my computer screen...this year, by far.

It was Reese Herth who drew the foul on Davis, not Marlon.  Reese got caught guarding Davis on a switch and Davis called for the ball after he recognized the smaller man guarding him.  Everyone who was paying attention knew that Davis was going to go to the basket once he got the ball.  In the gym, it looked like that call could have gone either way, but when Davis runs into you, you don't VOLUNTARILY go down.  Victor is a big kid.

As for the no call at the other end of the floor, you might want to watch it again without the green tinted glasses.  The only possible call on that play was a block.  Jordan was never set in front of Kelly.

[Titan Q]

As for the no call at the other end of the floor, you might want to watch it again without the green tinted glasses.  The only possible call on that play was a block.  Jordan was never set in front of Kelly.

On both of the calls involving Jordan Nelson guarding Malcom Kelly, Carthage broadcaster John Weiser said felt like Kelly probably got away with an offensive foul (if I recall the broadcast correctly, he mentioned Kelly potentially lowering the shoulder on both).   

As I recall both plays, Jordan Nelson was set in a defensive position, Kelly turned, and Nelson went down.  So it just came down to whether Nelson flopped, or if Kelly lowered the shoulder and initiated the contact.  (Both were extremely similar to that play at the end of the Elmhurst game, when Kelly scored a basket...also no call in that situation.)  The official must have determine in both situations that Nelson flopped as neither was called an offensive foul.

To say "the only possible call on that play was a block" is much too strong in my opinion, mwunder.  Again, John Weiser thought Carthage probably got a break on both.  Those absolutely could have been called either way.

And let me stress, I don't think either call determined the result of the game.  Carthage played a lot better than IWU and deserved to win.