MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

Nice separate piece in the Pgraph today on Mssr. Victor Davis and his distinguished "rock on the block" career at IWU.

Here is a link to that article on Victor Davis...

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/a-rock-on-the-block-iwu-s-davis-turning-in/article_59ef9cca-8891-11e3-a3ac-001a4bcf887a.html

Victor has been a starter, and huge contributor, on some really good IWU teams the last few years - helped the Titans to Salem in 2011-12, to a 13-1 CCIW record and Sweet 16 last year, and to a national #6 ranking this season. 

Victor is a unique player at the Division III due to the combination of his physical presence/strength and his basketball skill.  He's been fun to watch play.

[carthage guy]

kiko

nice research.... i know my memory served me correct... i remember the games but they run together with the yrs

Top 25  does have informed voters, of course.  The problem is teams like Hope and Calvin to name a few consistently go from the cciw/miaa classic where the teams are very close back to the miaa.  They play each other 2 or 3 more times and really dont challenge their win loss record the rest of the way.  Hope and Calvin can always find themselves in the top 25 for that.

cciw/wiac schools slug through the schedule and end up with more losses in many cases.  Do you really think Carthage or Wheaton would have six losses with Calvins schedule?  I dont.

[Mr. Ypsi]

carthage guy, my apologies for doubting your memory.  I was mixing up Mass-Dartmouth with Mass-Boston, which IS a perennial bottom-feeder in a weak conference.  Mass-Dartmouth is usually only a bit better, but I recall now that they did have those couple of very good years.

[carthage guy]

If Carthage played Calvins schedule they would be in the top 25, just peaking at their schedule the league game scores arent even close. 
Div 1 has the same thing as far as records go, but that is why 11 and 12 loss teams make the tourney from the big 10, acc and such.....
Am i to believe that Wash U is a top 10 team... when Carthage beat them at home earlier in the season with out Malcom Kelly.... Carthage is probably favored on a nuetral set against Wash U.  But one team is ranked and other is not???

The top 25 are all of the teams with the fewest losses... always gonna be that way... but not always the best 25 teams???

[sac]

If Carthage played Calvins schedule they would be in the top 25, just peaking at their schedule the league game scores arent even close. 
Div 1 has the same thing as far as records go, but that is why 11 and 12 loss teams make the tourney from the big 10, acc and such.....
Am i to believe that Wash U is a top 10 team... when Carthage beat them at home earlier in the season with out Malcom Kelly.... Carthage is probably favored on a nuetral set against Wash U.  But one team is ranked and other is not???

The top 25 are all of the teams with the fewest losses... always gonna be that way... but not always the best 25 teams???

11 and 12 loss teams make the D1 tournament partly because they play 32 games, they have fewer teams in the division and fewer automatic bids, therefore more at-large selections so they go deeper into that pool of teams.

[WUPHF]

Am i to believe that Wash U is a top 10 team... when Carthage beat them at home earlier in the season with out Malcom Kelly.... Carthage is probably favored on a neutral set against Wash U.  But one team is ranked and other is not???

The top 25 are all of the teams with the fewest losses... always gonna be that way... but not always the best 25 teams???

I have seen only two Carthage games this season and I watched both online, but I would need details to believe that Carthage would be favored. 

WUSTL would have won the game had they shot above the season average from the charity stripe.  And, the season average is low as it is.  The team was exposed for a lack of energy (particularly in the second half) and depth as the best player fouled out in a quick 23 minutes.  Two others played with four fouls.  Not to take anything away from Carthage (even if that is how it sounds), but definitely not our best game.

I have my doubts that WUSTL is a top 10 team, but if you have only seen them once this season, the Carthage game was not a good indicator of where the team is at the moment.

Carthage has the schedule ahead to play themselves in to the Top 25 or better.  We shall see if they do.

[Gregory Sager]

I've been watching CCIW games on a regular basis since the 2004-05 season. Many of the refs that were officiating games that season are still around today, and many of them are still calling games the way they did in 04-05 despite whatever rules changes the NCAA has instituted since that time. They may initially change their officiating modus operandi for a while when a new rule comes on the books, but I believe most revert to their historical ways within a fairly short time. I've seen it time and time again this season with regard to the new set of rules that went into effect this year concerning a defender's impeding the ball handler. In the beginning of the season, a foul was whistled if you dared breathe to heavily on the guy with the ball. Now, the vast majority of refs are allowing much more contact prior to blowing the whistle.

This is exactly what I predicted would happen when the points of emphasis were discussed here back in the preseason. The unofficial motto of the CCIW officiating pool is "you can't teach an old dog new tricks".

There have been outliers, however. The IWU @ NPU game, for example, featured 53 personal fouls, the vast majority of which involved infractions of the new points of emphasis regarding ballhandler contact. And that game was called by three veteran CCIW officials, so there are a few old dogs who are still up for learning how to fetch or heel.

Thats fine with me because my humble opinion is that basketball IS a contact sport and a certain amount of contact should be allowed. The point is the NCAA can make all the rule changes they want, good or bad, but its up to the refs to enforce the rules and each one seems to have a little different view of what is permissible and what isn't despite what the "official" rule states.

I don't mind some of the contact being taken out of the sport, because too much of it has turned into a rugby scrum, especially underneath the basket. College basketball at its best should involve more finesse, like we saw in the past -- not exactly ballet, but at least somewhere more towards the middle of the continuum between rugby and ballet.

As far as officials having "a little different view of what is permissible and what isn't", all I've ever asked for from a referee is consistency. Call the game the same way in the 40th minute that you called it in the first minute, and call it the same way in the 17th minute or the 26th minute as well. Whether it's tight or loose, I don't care so much -- just call it the same for both teams and for all forty minutes. And, given the fact that the CCIW officiating pool is finite and the same guys keep showing up in stripes at CCIW gyms year after year, I'm sure that the league's eight head coaches would like the refs to keep their consistency from one game -- or one season -- to the next. In other words, Ref A may be known for calling a tight game, so Bosko or Grey or Mike might expect him to blow the whistle a lot and will coach accordingly, whereas Ref B might have a "let 'em play" reputation, so the coaches might expect that from him when they see him on the schedule. 

To me the real problem with CCIW officiating is some of the refs are so old they A) could never change the way they officiate because they've been doing it a certain way for 30 years, and B) can't keep up with the speed of the game, frequently trailing the play so its impossible for them to be in position to make the right call. This pattern isn't going to change until the conference retires some of these guys and brings in some new, younger talent. In addition to all the CCIW games I see, I usually go to high school games most Tuesdays and Fridays. In those games I see lots of terrible refs that you wouldn't want to see doing college games where the players are generally bigger, stronger, and  faster. However, I also see a number of refs who are equal to or better than many of the refs who have been making and blowing the same calls in college games for years. If the CCIW wants better officiating, its only going to happen if they bring in some of these younger officials who are both in better shape, and more up to date and secure with the rules and how to interpret them. If the same refs who have been around for 20, 30, and maybe even more years are kept around, nobody should expect a change in how games are called. I'm not saying all the current refs are bad, but several are, and the games would likely be more enjoyable if they were replaced.   

This is less of an issue for me. Some of the refs are getting on a little bit, sure, but I don't necessarily think that that hinders their ability to call the game. I can think of only one or two exceptions. Ken Falkner, for example, is older than dirt. But he still calls a great game. He's as imperious as Napoleon or Stalin, of course, and woe to the coach who crosses him -- but he's always in the right spot, and his percentage of making the right call vs. blowing the call is a whole lot higher than it is for some of the young bucks in the CCIW ref pool.

[Gregory Sager]

IWU will finish no worse than 11-3. Only the road game at Wheaton game looks like a challenge for the Titans at this point. The rest of us are in trouble, when it comes to winning the regular season title.

I do so love it when augiefan channels this man:



I saw a picture online of the construction on your new house, augiefan. Looking good!

[Gregory Sager]

Would love to see Elmhurst in the mix for the CCIW tournament.  Sure would be a major achievement for John Baines, surpassing expectations for his team in his first year of head coaching in the CCIW.  For them to beat Augie that way, he must have his players really believing.  Agree with Naperick that CC will be a tough out along the way, too, esp. if they shoot the percentage they shot vs. IWU in Kenosha last Saturday.   

IWU70

Bless you for not putting the words "polar vortex" into that post, Mark.

carthage guy, my apologies for doubting your memory.  I was mixing up Mass-Dartmouth with Mass-Boston, which IS a perennial bottom-feeder in a weak conference.  Mass-Dartmouth is usually only a bit better, but I recall now that they did have those couple of very good years.

To be fair to Mass-Dartmouth, the Corsairs have been a New England power in D3 from almost the very outset of the division. They've made 14 D3 tourney appearances over the years, the first in 1976 and the latest in 2009. (Until 1991 the school was known as Southeastern Massachusetts University.) And the D3 tourney record of the Corsairs is 16-15. So, yeah, Mass-Dartmouth got shelled like a peanut by Carthage in the '01 tourney, but the Corsairs still have a better basketball heritage than you think.

Am i to believe that Wash U is a top 10 team... when Carthage beat them at home earlier in the season with out Malcom Kelly.... Carthage is probably favored on a neutral set against Wash U.  But one team is ranked and other is not???

The top 25 are all of the teams with the fewest losses... always gonna be that way... but not always the best 25 teams???

I have seen only two Carthage games this season and I watched both online, but I would need details to believe that Carthage would be favored. 

WUSTL would have won the game had they shot above the season average from the charity stripe.  And, the season average is low as it is.  The team was exposed for a lack of energy (particularly in the second half) and depth as the best player fouled out in a quick 23 minutes.  Two others played with four fouls.  Not to take anything away from Carthage (even if that is how it sounds), but definitely not our best game.

I have my doubts that WUSTL is a top 10 team, but if you have only seen them once this season, the Carthage game was not a good indicator of where the team is at the moment.

That street runs both ways, WUH. The Red Men did not have Malcom Kelly for the game against Wash U. All Kelly has done since rejoining the Red Men over the holidays is average 19.4 ppg and be named the CCIW Player of the Week twice. So ... if you think that Wash U would've won the game had the Bears shot a decent percentage from the charity stripe, how do you think they would've done if they'd made their FTs and had to face Malcom Kelly as well? And I would suggest to you that the Wash U game is not a good indicator of where Carthage is at the moment, either.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I'm very much looking forward to seeing how my tied-for-48th-place Vikings fare against tied-for-37th-place Carthage at the Toolshed tonight.

[WUPHF]

That street runs both ways, WUH. The Red Men did not have Malcom Kelly for the game against Wash U. All Kelly has done since rejoining the Red Men over the holidays is average 19.4 ppg and be named the CCIW Player of the Week twice. So ... if you think that Wash U would've won the game had the Bears shot a decent percentage from the charity stripe, how do you think they would've done if they'd made their FTs and had to face Malcom Kelly as well? And I would suggest to you that the Wash U game is not a good indicator of where Carthage is at the moment, either.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I'm very much looking forward to seeing how my tied-for-48th-place Vikings fare against tied-for-37th-place Carthage at the Toolshed tonight.

The street does indeed run both ways, and based on the way the Bears played in the second half, the addition of Malcolm Kelly may have given Carthage a 20 point win and it may have meant that Senior would have taken far less shots in that second half, in which he scored most of his 28 points.  All hypothetical, of course, and not worth discussing.

I admit that I unfairly made the assumption that the poster was judging WUSTL based on the one game they played in the Tool...whatever.  All I was asking for was for more than just that Malcolm Kelly is back as an indicator that Carthage would be favored.

[carthage guy]

All good banter...   

All im saying is it would be nice to play the uaa or miaa schedule

[Titan Q]

All good banter...   

All im saying is it would be nice to play the uaa or miaa schedule

The UAA is a great league.  Massey has the CCIW and UAA basically tied right now for strongest league in Division III...

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cb2014&sub=11620&c=1

The UAA is regularly considered a top 5 conference, along with the CCIW.

In addition to having good teams, the UAA schedule includes some pretty crazy travel.  There is absolutely nothing easy about the schedule Wash U, Chicago, etc play.

[Gregory Sager]

Don't sell the UAA short, cg. That league is always tough, and the travel is brutal.

The MIAA? Well, even though it's mind-numbing to realize how many decades now Hope and Calvin have dominated that league (with a couple of brief surges of parity with the two Dutch-American schools by Albion in the late '70s and early '00s), the Dutch and the Knights still have to be taken seriously by teams from outside that circuit in November, December, and March.

[carthage guy]

UAA does appear to have no real bad teams year in and out....however i still believe winning in that league in somewhat easier than the tough cciw slate.

[AndOne]

Not that they are alone in this regard by any means, but today's North Central schedule schedule gives evidence of the dedication on the part of D3 student-athletes who play for the love of the game. The NCC bus left Naperville today at 12:45 for the upcoming 7:00 game vs #14 Augustana. After arrival in Rock Island, early dinner, some mall walking, arrival at the gym, warmups, the game itself, and the long bus ride home, it will be about midnight before arrival back in Naperville.  Pretty long day away from classes/schoolwork, and other obligations for the guys. As I said NCC is certainly not alone when it comes to time away from campus, but this is a good example of some of the time involved in the life of student-athletes.

* During warmups, it appears Augie's #32, PG Dan Jurgutis is missing. Upon further investigation, sources indicate he is out tonight with an infected toe. Not known yet who will take his place. Jurgutis has played in every game so far this season for the western Vikings.