MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[jaybird44]

I believe that being a road team is tougher in the CCIW because there are more fans attending those conference games.  For whatever reasons, metropolitan cities where the UAA schools are based don't have a broad core of devoted fans from the local communities that surround each school.  Beyond the campuses of those schools, it is tough to find fans in those very large cities who would favor going to D3 games instead of going to D1 college games and pro games in MLB, the NBA, NHL, and NFL.

Then, there is the aforementioned issue of travel--it's tough to get fans to follow their favorite UAA schools on flights from St. Louis to Cleveland and Pittsburgh one weekend, and then follow WashU from St. Louis to Rochester and Atlanta in the next weekend.  Ditto for the other UAA schools as they also fly to and from New York City, Chicago, and Boston.

Compare that to the CCIW, where smaller communities have fan bases that are generally larger and more invested in the support of the athletic programs at their local universities.  Visiting opponents in that conference have to deal with a home crowd that number well over a thousand fans at several CCIW locations...maybe more than a couple thousand.  By and large, UAA schools don't have that kind of consistently-high attendance figures.

Other than that, as Q mentioned earlier, there is very little difference (IMOH) between the conferences regarding top-to-bottom quality of the teams.  If there was a D3 basketball version of the show "Wifeswap"...where some schools would switch conferences for a season...I think that you would find that UAA teams would be competitive within the CCIW slate...and some CCIW teams might struggle with the Friday night-Sunday afternoon weekend of road games to UAA places much farther away from home.

Now...to shift gears to WashU's losses to Carthage and Illinois Wesleyan.  At the time those games were played earlier this season, Carthage was slightly better, and IWU was much better than WashU.  Since that time, WashU has improved significantly--as its current winning streak indicates.  The depth of production has greatly improved on the Bears' bench since those losses, and Matt Palucki has really blossomed as a deadly and prolific 3-point shooter.  The free throw shooting has improved a little bit, too...especially in the latter 5 minutes of a game.  Carthage and IWU could very well beat WashU again at this point of the season--but the Bears are undoubtedly a much better team now than they were in late November-early December.  And, being unbeaten so far in what Massey considers one of the top D3 basketball conferences, I believe that WashU deserves its #7 national ranking.

Just my two cents, which could be worth 1.7 cents when the market of public opinion opens tomorrow morning.

[veterancciwfan]

And One: 12:45 seems a little early for a 2 hour drive to Rock Island for 7 pm game. But hey, it must be a great plan as NCC beat a good Augie team tonight. I guess the Augie players are having the Grey stress syndrome early this season. And Augie still faces road games at IWU and Carthage. Regarding the 2001 thrashing that Carthage put on Mass-Dartmouth: The D3 tournament in the 1990s and early 2000s regularly featured Rounds 3 and 4 between teams other than from only the Midwest, West or Great Lakes regions. For example, in 1996 IWU and Wash U. went to Roanoke College in Salem, VA to play Round 3 games vs. teams from the Old Dominions conference. In 1997, IWU hosted Rounds 3 and 4 which included Bridgewater (VA) and Methodist (NC). In 2003, IWU's season ended at Hampden-Sydney (VA) in Round 3. I could provide more examples. But lately, the D3 tournament committee has limited CCIW schools (2 or 3) to playing Rounds 3 and 4 in closer destinations (St. Thomas, Stevens Point, Wooster, Hope, NCC at home last year are examples). I would love to see teams from the midwest (area, not the NCAA region) play teams from the east or south in Rounds 3 and 4. The NCAA is swimming in money and could afford to spend a little more on travel for Rounds 3 and 4 in the D3 tourney. I noticed that the current Massey ratings of the top 5 conferences didn't include the NESCAC, the conference that produced 3 of the Elite 8 last year.

[AndOne]

North Central 66
Augustana 59

http://www.northcentralcardinals.com/boxscore.aspx?path=mbball&id=2504

NCC was led by All-American Landon Gamble who hit on 8 of 10 from the field, and 6 of 8 from the line for 22 points, 18 of which came after halftime. Despite the alternating hulking inside presence of both Kevin Schlitter and Nic Hoepfner. and almost always being double teamed, and sometimes triple teamed, Augie had no answer for Gamble. In addition to his 22 points Landon also played the waiter's role well, serving up a game high 6 assists. He was ably supported by Vince Kmiec with 16, and Jack Burchett with 13. Burchett and Augie's Tayvain Johnson (15 pts) were the show in the 1st half with each scoring 11 points. Pat Rourke played a strong game for the Cardinals, having what for him can be considered an offensive explosion  , with 9 points. Additionally, he came away with 3 important steals. Brandon Williams chipped in 4 points and pulled down a game tying high 7 rebounds.
Augie was led by Hunter Hill with 22, but it was a case of both catch up, and too little too late as North Central led almost the entire game with the Vikings never ahead by more than a single point, and never again after the 17:15 mark of the 2nd half.

Gamble's 22 points tonight enabled him to become the fifth Cardinal to surpass 1,500 for his career. He now has 1,509. With his career high-tying 6 assists he moves into 10th place all-time with 192.

The Cardinals were prepared for a ticked off Augie squad coming off a surprising loss to Elmhurst on Saturday. Their game strategy revolved around taking the air out of the ball on offense, and alternately switching off some ball screens and not off others on defense. The alternating defensive patterns appeared to leave the hosts perplexed.

Augie's Griffin Pils has never been able to dribble without using a left arm bar to ward of his defender. He did it in high school, he does it in summer league, and he has continued doing so in this, his 2nd year at Augie. Although its obvious to anyone who watches him, the refs don't often seem to be able to see the obvious jabbing motion of his left arm or the continual several inch separation between his arm and body. Accordingly, it was nice to see him called for an offensive foul at 13:44 of the 2nd half when he turned his usual jabbing motion into a battering ram striking Pat Rourke in the chest in an attempt to separate himself from Rourke's tight defense.

[Gregory Sager]

And One: 12:45 seems a little early for a 2 hour drive to Rock Island for 7 pm game. But hey, it must be a great plan as NCC beat a good Augie team tonight. I guess the Augie players are having the Grey stress syndrome early this season. And Augie still faces road games at IWU and Carthage. Regarding the 2001 thrashing that Carthage put on Mass-Dartmouth: The D3 tournament in the 1990s and early 2000s regularly featured Rounds 3 and 4 between teams other than from only the Midwest, West or Great Lakes regions. For example, in 1996 IWU and Wash U. went to Roanoke College in Salem, VA to play Round 3 games vs. teams from the Old Dominions conference. In 1997, IWU hosted Rounds 3 and 4 which included Bridgewater (VA) and Methodist (NC). In 2003, IWU's season ended at Hampden-Sydney (VA) in Round 3. I could provide more examples.

Back then, the D3 tourney consisted of two four-region rotations, the eastern rotation (Northeast, East, Middle Atlantic, and Atlantic) and the western rotation (South, Great Lakes, Midwest, and West). That's why the two teams that came out of the Midwest Region would be paired with the two teams that came out of the South Region every third year in the sectionals. It was all about the rotational process.

Carthage was split off from the Midwest Region teams in '01 and put in with the Great Lakes Region teams, because the CCIW had three teams in the tourney and the championships committee found a creative way to split the CCIW trio by sending Carthage to Ohio. That's why Carthage played UMD that year; creative bracketing by the committee made it possible to bring a team from the easternmost part of D3 and a comparatively far west D3 team (yes, Kenosha, WI is pretty far west by D3 geography) together in the Buckeye State.

But lately, the D3 tournament committee has limited CCIW schools (2 or 3) to playing Rounds 3 and 4 in closer destinations (St. Thomas, Stevens Point, Wooster, Hope, NCC at home last year are examples). I would love to see teams from the midwest (area, not the NCAA region) play teams from the east or south in Rounds 3 and 4. The NCAA is swimming in money and could afford to spend a little more on travel for Rounds 3 and 4 in the D3 tourney. I noticed that the current Massey ratings of the top 5 conferences didn't include the NESCAC, the conference that produced 3 of the Elite 8 last year.

The NCAA is swimming in D1-earned money, Lanny -- specifically the D1 college football TV contract money and the D1 March Madness TV contract money. It's not ours (as in D3's) to command. We get the crumbs, and we're pretty much expected to be satisfied with what we're given. And don't think any attempt by D3's movers and shakers to agitate for a bigger slice of that D1 television pie that we're being given will succeed; the major D1 conferences are mobilizing to wrest more control of their money from the NCAA, and the NCAA will cave in to them.

Bottom line: We will not get more money from the NCAA for the D3 men's basketball tournament. And we will continue to have to live with a bracket that's first and foremost designed to save plane-fare expenditures.

[kiko]

Last year's tournament was more regional because of the 1-1-1-2-1 format.

When you have four team pods, you can use the most centrally located team as the host location and draw teams from a wider geographic area.  If you have this flexibility, it is easier to find creative ways to reward regular season success with hosting opportunities while de-emphasizing regional proximity and yet not crossing the ruh-roh-this-means-someone-flies rubicon.

But with single games in each of the three weekends of the tournament, that flexibility wasn't available: Teams A and B in the first round needed to be in proximity to one another, and they also had to be in proximity to C and D for the second round meeting, and if possible, they had to be in proximity to schools E-F-G-H for the third round.

Yes, the three NESCAC teams that made deep runs in the tournament were placed in separate brackets, but the density of schools in that part of the country means there are more opportunities to do this.  (And, the three had earned the right to be separated and proved that in the tournament.)

This is one of the reasons why I am not a fan of a format that pairs up the D3 c-game with the D1 tournament's final four.  It sounds like that was a great experience for those two teams.  But that came at the expense of the experience, in terms of the opportunity to test your mettle against more far-flung opponents, for a larger number of teams that fell earlier in the tournament.

[AndOne]

Since the mcl is not inside the knee joint, it has a good blood supply and usually responds well to non-surgical treatment. Depending on how bad the injury is, it may be enough to rest the knee, wear a brace, take over the counter pain medication, and have physical therapy.

Rehab may be able to started within a few days to restore strength and normal range of motion. Depending on the seriousness of the injury, complete recovery may take anywhere from one to eight weeks after rehab is initiated.

If surgery is necessary, it is usually done through a small incision on the inside of the knee rather than arthroscopically..

Humble insurance investigator by day, at night he reveals his hidden identity ... as Dr. Oz.

And One: 12:45 seems a little early for a 2 hour drive to Rock Island for 7 pm game. But hey, it must be a great plan as NCC beat a good Augie team tonight. I guess the Augie players are having the Grey stress syndrome early this season.

Veteran----

1. Being a veteran of many trips between NCC and Augie, I can tell you that under optimum conditions in a car, driving time between the two institutions is about 2:45. In a slower coach bus, and with any construction or weather related  delays, you need to allow an extra 15-30 minutes. Only in the Batmobile can you make it in 2 hours! 

2. Optimum time to eat a meal, rich in complex carbohydrates with a dash of protein, prior to game time is about 3 hours. This gives the body time to metabolize and absorb the nutrients in the food in order to provide the body with energy throughout the contest. For a 7:00 tip, this means "dinner" should be consumed at around 4:00. Accordingly, a 12:45 departure put the Redbirds in Rock Island at about 3:40. 10 more  minutes to the restaurant plus about another 10 for the team to go through the buffet line, allowed consumption to be initiated right at about 4:00. The coaching staff had it nailed. 

[iwu70]

AO, you really have the pregame routine down to a fine art.

#5 Wooster lost for the second game in a row.

IWU'70

[toooldtohoop]

Wheaton holds off a tough Elmhurst team last night.  The Thunder looked like they played one of their best games of the year, and they needed to in order to get this win.  Another night with contributions from many players.  Haynes is having a great year, with his last two games particularly impressive.
Peters took over for a stretch in the second half, and just would not be stopped.

[carthage guy]

gs

good point on the 13-12.. perception is everything.

Im starting to wonder if IWU won the confernce tourney... could possibly the CCIW only get 1 team in.  Augie, it seems, could finish as low as 4th in the league, while Carthage and Wheaton played such tough non conference schedules that 7 or 8 losses seems likely for both?

Carthage does have the two non d3 games they played which makes them currently 12-5 in d3 contests. Not much room for error here for either Wheaton or Carthage.  any thoughts?

[sac]

gs

good point on the 13-12.. perception is everything.

Im starting to wonder if IWU won the confernce tourney... could possibly the CCIW only get 1 team in.  Augie, it seems, could finish as low as 4th in the league, while Carthage and Wheaton played such tough non conference schedules that 7 or 8 losses seems likely for both?

Carthage does have the two non d3 games they played which makes them currently 12-5 in d3 contests. Not much room for error here for either Wheaton or Carthage.  any thoughts?

The CCIW will get 2 minimum.  The rest of the Midwest Region isn't very strong, so the 2nd CCIW team should be ranked fairly high and will be 'on the table' early.  Have to believe whoever it is will have the criteria to be selected.

Lots could change of course.

[mwunder]

Whatever happened to future NBA player, Luke Johnson?  Did he end up graduating from Benedictine?

[WUPHF]

By the way, thanks for being gracious hosts to the two UAA fans who otherwise would be posting in the UAA thread, which, like so many of our gyms on Sundays, has few spectators. 

While it is true that Washington University and Chicago may as well be affiliate members of the CCIW during non-conference play, in my opinion, this is the best conference thread on www.d3boards.com even long after the conference season has begun.

[AndOne]

Whatever happened to future NBA player, Luke Johnson?  Did he end up graduating from Benedictine?

Ha!
It seems Luke "NBA" Johnson discovered Benedictine, as Carthage beforehand, was not the ticket to NBA stardom. He wanted to transfer to a D1 this year, but it seems his NBA body was/is giving him some difficulty, particularly with regard to some back issues he has encountered. Accordingly, his current plan is take some time off to rehab his back, then transfer to a D1 next year to complete his remaining 2 years of eligibility before entering the NBA draft.
Of course that is all predicated on a D1 taking a kid who spent his 1st 2 years out of HS at Carthage and Benedictine, and then his being talented enough to play in the NBA after completing his college eligibility. 
Some dreams die hard.   

[bopol]

Luke Johnson: the belief at the beginning of the year is he is sitting out this year with an injury hoping to get a D1 scholly for next year, but none of us really know.

Pool C candidates:  I did a quick run through the Top 50 in the Massey Ratings (easy to work with, though not ideal since they use all games instead of just D3 games) and found that there are 11 conferences with multiple teams in the Top 50 (altogether 33 teams).  There are another 16 teams from only a single conference and one team that would be a Pool B candidate (Centre).

If the conference tournaments go as expected, there are 22 teams looking at 19 spots.  Of course, there will be upsets, so 19 spots will get reduced.  In the group of 33 teams in the conferences with multiple top teams, many have 5 or more losses (Wheaton (6), Carthage (5), Hope (5), Wilmington (6), LaCrosse (6) and Platteville (6)).  Most of these teams have tons of play against other top teams (likely regional ranked), so I think the committee will be faced with situations where they have clubs on the table when they make the last picks with 8 losses and a ton of play against regional ranked and teams with 4 losses and almost no play against regional ranked (for example, I think Carthage will end up with more than half of their games against regional ranked opponents).  That'll be interesting.

Here's the data for those that are bored (I am pretty determined not to do much useful today):

Teams from Conference with more than 1 Top 50 team:

Capital   Wesley DE   16-1   7
Capital   Mary Washingt   16-2   11
Capital   St Mary's MD   11-4   33
Capital   Chris Newport   12-4   49
Ill & Wisc   IL Wesleyan   16-3   5
Ill & Wisc   Augustana IL   15-4   13
Ill & Wisc   Wheaton IL   13-6   14
Ill & Wisc   Carthage           13-6   37
Michigan IAA   Calvin   14-4   38
Michigan IAA   Hope   11-7   44
Minnesota IAC   St Thomas MN   13-3   19
Minnesota IAC   St Olaf   13-4   20
NE Smalls   Amherst   16-2   9
NE Smalls   Bowdoin   15-1   27
NE Smalls   Williams   15-3   34
North Coast AC   Wooster   15-2   3
North Coast AC   Ohio Wesleyan   14-3   17
North Coast AC   Wittenberg   15-4   23
North Coast AC   DePauw   14-4   28
Ohio AC   Marietta   14-4   15
Ohio AC   Mt Union   14-3   22
Ohio AC   Wilmington OH   12-6   25
Old Dominion AC   Randolph Macon   14-4   12
Old Dominion AC   VA Wesleyan   13-4   39
SUNY AC   Brockport St   15-1   8
SUNY AC   Plattsburgh St   13-3   18
SUNY AC   Geneseo St   14-2   29
University AA   Washington MO   14-2   6
University AA   Emory   12-4   40
Wisconsin IAC   WI Stevens Pt   19-0   1
Wisconsin IAC   WI Whitewater   15-3   4
Wisconsin IAC   WI LaCrosse   12-7   46
Wisconsin IAC   WI Platteville   12-6   48

Teams from conference with only 1 Top 50 team

American SW   UT Dallas   15-2   16
Northwest   Whitworth   13-4   30
Centennial   Dickinson   14-4   41
City Univ NY   Staten Island   16-2   31
Colonial States   Cabrini   17-0   2
Great Northeast   Albertus Magnus   16-1   21
Heartland CAC   Rose-Hulman   14-4   50
Skyline   Purchase   14-1   24
Iowa IAC   Dubuque   17-1   32
Landmark   Scranton   15-3   47
Little East   E Connecticut   14-4   43
Southern Cal IAC   Claremont M.S.   13-4   35
Mid Atlantic   Messiah   15-2   26
Midwest   St Norbert   16-1   10
New Jersey A.C.   R Stockton   15-3   45
NE W&M   Worcester Tech   17-1   36

Pool B:

SAA   Centre   13-3   42


Sorry, it's not really very neat.

[Gregory Sager]

By the way, thanks for being gracious hosts to the two UAA fans who otherwise would be posting in the UAA thread, which, like so many of our gyms on Sundays, has few spectators. 

While it is true that Washington University and Chicago may as well be affiliate members of the CCIW during non-conference play, in my opinion, this is the best conference thread on www.d3boards.com even long after the conference season has begun.

Thanks for the kudos, WUH. We're more than happy to have you and Jay and any other UAA types who choose to go slumming hang with us here on CCIW Chat.

We used to get some Chicago regulars in here habitually (Pistol Pete, Martin, etc.), but it's been a long time since anybody but me repped the Maroons on d3boards.com. Despite his name, Wheaton loyalist USee doesn't count.