MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Viking Mike]

Actually, if Augie and Carthage have identical conference records at the end, Augie would be the #3 seed by virtue of head to head with Carthage. (2-0)
Record against teams ahead in the standings (Whe/IWU) is the 2nd tiebreaker. 

[AndOne]

Congrats to Vince Kmiec on CCIW Player of the Week. Some great performances this past week. 
IWU70

Vince unquestionably has historically been primarily recognized for his offensive capabilities. Most notably his ability to heat up as quickly as a microwave and bank a group of 3 bombs within a short period of time. Vince is currently 3rd all-time in 3 pointers made at NCC. However, what really distinguishes Vince from most other high scorers is his superlative defensive skills. One of the better, if not the best on the ball defender in the league, Vince is the current league leader in steals. He led the league last year and ranked 3rd two years ago. He holds NCC single game, single season, and career records for steals. Vince was a 3rd team all-conference performer last season. It would not be surprising at all to see him move up to the 2nd team this year. 

[AndOne]

Obviously, things are leading toward a Wheaton-IWU finale at King Arena in a couple of weeks for the right to host the tournament. Clearly, things can change with any number of unexpected losses, but it got me reading up on some of the tiebreaker rules, and I wondered if someone could confirm or correct this possible scenario:

Wheaton beats NPU, loses @NCC, beats IWU
IWU beats @NCC, beats Carthage, beats NPU, loses @Wheaton

From what I read, Wheaton would still take the tiebreaker by virtue of sweeping Augie vs. IWU's split with the Vikings. The only tiebreaker info I could find was from 2010 (http://www.cciw.org/sports/2010/6/29/Gen._0629100226.aspx?id=616), and it indicates that when the head-to-head is split, tiebreakers are determined by "Record vs. team or teams in 3rd place. If still tied, go to the next place for determination, et cetera."

So, that's what I came up with... unless Augie were to somehow fall behind NCC in the standings, which seems unlikely, to say the least. What do you think, is this accurate?

I believe Carthage is still in 3rd place in the conference at this point in time.  If IWU beats Carthage at home, then both teams would have split with Carthage.  Augie would have to win out and hope for a Carthage loss (the aforementioned IWU game) to tie for third.  In that instance, Carthage is 3rd in the league since they would have split with both teams above them in the standings.  I don't think NCC can sneak into 3rd in the conference at all and probably won't factor into the decision.

I think 3rd is an impossibility for NCC. 4th is what the Cardinals have to shoot for, and all they need for that to happen would be for them to run the table against !WU, Wheaton, and Elmhurst, and have Augie falter somewhere along the line. No sweat. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I see Point did remain #1 in the new D3hoops poll, as some of you predicted -- but only by a whisker -- 14-11, with many first place votes shifting to Cabrini.  Cabrini seems not to have played last week at all, due to postponements given weather conditions, I assume.  IWU still at #5 with Wash U at #4.  Frankly don't understand that one, given the early season head-to-head.  Whitewater the big winner, rising to #3 on the merits of their win over Point.  Augie dropped out as many of us thought and Wheaton now just outside the top 25 at #27 in the voting.  Not that all this matters all that much. Gotta win games at this time of year, get to 20+ wins and burnish the resume for getting higher at the table for Pool C.  There it is -- it is what it is. 

IWU70

Yes... Cabrini had their game against Wesley postponed for the second time this season last Monday due to a snow storm (it can't be made up now) and then had their game against Immaculata postponed on Wednesday due to an ice storm and then again on Thursday due to power still being out on campus due to the ice storm (they are located outside of Philly which along with the rest of the eastern half of PA got hit hard).

The kicker... Cabrini has four conference games scheduled for this week: Monday (away), Wednesday (away), Thursday (home), and Saturday (away), before playing two more next week before the conference tournament starts a week from Saturday (though, Cabrini will have the bye). They won Monday night by seven with their best player (and candidate for Player of the Year) nursing an ankle injury he suffered nearly two weeks ago - missed two games now). But things are going to get more challenging. A major nor'easter is forecaste to slam the east coast Wednesday night all the way through Thursday - a real slow moving storm. Who knows how that will affect Wednesday night's game, but I will put down even-numbers that Thursday's game is postponed (same Immaculata opponent) and Saturday could be a problem if the now-predicted 18-inches hits (at least for where I live in the Baltimore area). This is going to get really interesting.

As for the IWU/Wash U positioning... I don't have it flipped like that (I have IWU 3/Wash U 4), but I can understand why voters would considering IWU has lost more games (3 vs. 2) and more recently. The regional committees looked at the same win/loss difference when they compared the teams today in their voting (we will see on Wednesday where they put them).

[mwunder]

Actually, if Augie and Carthage have identical conference records at the end, Augie would be the #3 seed by virtue of head to head with Carthage. (2-0)
Record against teams ahead in the standings (Whe/IWU) is the 2nd tiebreaker.

. Duh.  You're right.

[iwu70]

AndOne, thanks for all the details on Kmiec's career.  I have always admired his tough defense.  He killed my Titans last year with some bombs and steals.

Dave, thanks for the details on Cabrini's scheduling woes.  Sounds pretty rough.  Bet folks all around Philly and Eastern PA. are just fed-up, sick of winter by now.

We'll see what the regional committee says about the IWU/Wash U positioning very soon.  IWU took it to Wash U pretty good earlier on, but seems Wash U has improved a good deal and has put on a great run of wins in the latter part of the season. 

IWU70

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

iwu70... I have a number of friends in the state (I live about 15 or so miles south of the border) and they are sick of it. Were I live has been right on the line of nasty or okay... several storms have dumped 6-8 inches here and much more north (one storm was mainly freezing rain here and six inches plus just five miles north of me). This week... not looking good at all.

[iwu70]

It's been bad in Central Illinois too, with much snow, several days totally cancelled, university closed due to the extreme cold.  IWU has been pretty lucky, only one game postponed, the home games with NPU,both re-scheduled now.  This is why IWU is a game behind the others in completing the CCIW schedule.  I'm sure everyone at IWU and in B/N is really ready for the thaw, the Springtime to appear soon -- with sunning on the Quad and baseball at Horenberger Field hopefully following soon -- in late March or April.  Not too too many more weeks now.  Of course, we're all hoping for a trip to Salem in March before that, always nicer and warmer than the Midwest at Final Four time.  I've made a few of those trips, played golf around the edges with IWU friends, watched the Titans get third place a few times.  Was not there when Dennie Bridges and company took all the marbles in 1997, with Crabtree as National Player of the Year and a freshman PG named Corey Koon. 

We are having "Hong Kong winter" now here -- rainy, cloudy, murky and in the 40s.  That's the most of it -- as it will return to very hot, humid and ghastly soon enough. 

A good CCIW race this year -- coming down to WC and IWU on the final day of the season, it would appear.

IWU70

[Titan Q]

Was not there when Dennie Bridges and company took all the marbles in 1997, with Crabtree as National Player of the Year and a freshman PG named Corey Koon. 

Korey Coon.

[jtsmith231]

Obviously, things are leading toward a Wheaton-IWU finale at King Arena in a couple of weeks for the right to host the tournament. Clearly, things can change with any number of unexpected losses, but it got me reading up on some of the tiebreaker rules, and I wondered if someone could confirm or correct this possible scenario:

Wheaton beats NPU, loses @NCC, beats IWU
IWU beats @NCC, beats Carthage, beats NPU, loses @Wheaton

From what I read, Wheaton would still take the tiebreaker by virtue of sweeping Augie vs. IWU's split with the Vikings. The only tiebreaker info I could find was from 2010 (http://www.cciw.org/sports/2010/6/29/Gen._0629100226.aspx?id=616), and it indicates that when the head-to-head is split, tiebreakers are determined by "Record vs. team or teams in 3rd place. If still tied, go to the next place for determination, et cetera."

So, that's what I came up with... unless Augie were to somehow fall behind NCC in the standings, which seems unlikely, to say the least. What do you think, is this accurate?

I believe Carthage is still in 3rd place in the conference at this point in time.  If IWU beats Carthage at home, then both teams would have split with Carthage.  Augie would have to win out and hope for a Carthage loss (the aforementioned IWU game) to tie for third.  In that instance, Carthage is 3rd in the league since they would have split with both teams above them in the standings.  I don't think NCC can sneak into 3rd in the conference at all and probably won't factor into the decision.

I think 3rd is an impossibility for NCC. 4th is what the Cardinals have to shoot for, and all they need for that to happen would be for them to run the table against !WU, Wheaton, and Elmhurst, and have Augie falter somewhere along the line. No sweat. 

I agree with everything that has been said about Carthage vs. Augie for 3rd place, and the impossibility of NCC getting 3rd place (although I'm not even sure where that came from!). To clarify though, what I was getting at is that even if Carthage finishes in 3rd, at best IWU and Wheaton both split with Carthage and the tiebreaker would then look at the 4th place team. Likely this would be Augie, in which case the hosting tiebreaker goes to Wheaton. If it was Elmhurst, again IWU and Wheaton have the same record against them and the tiebreaker would look at the next place team. The only way that IWU would have the tiebreaker advantage over Wheaton (if Wesleyan loses at King, of course) would be NCC ending above Augie — even if that's something crazy like 5th & 6th place. And like AndOne mentioned, that would take quite a bit of luck for Augie to tank like that.

I guess the odd point that I was making here is that (providing they win at NPU on Wednesday) Wheaton's game @NCC doesn't matter much in terms of the CCIW race. Win-or-lose that one, they'll likely be in the same position going into the finale. Of course, every win and loss counts when NCAA tournament selection time rolls around!

[AndOne]

The CCIW championship is just one portion of the target. The national tournament and championship is the bulls eye.
In that light, every game is important for Wheaton. Should they falter at NCC and finish 18-7, they may or may not host the CCIW tourney. But, host or not, I believe they would then have to win the conference tourney in order to go to the national tournament. Should they then lose their opening conference tourney contest and finish 18-8, I think its definitely season over. Even if they win their 1st night's game and then lose the championship game and finish 19-8, I think there would be a distinct possibility that they wouldn't be invited to the big dance. So, bottom line, every game is very important.

As far as NCC making the conference tourney, its certainly a tall order. As previously mentioned, they 1st need to run the table against the Weenies, the Wheaties, and the Jays. AND, they would still need help in somebody beating Augie.
However, I look for the Cardinals to battle tooth and nail and for every possession to be a war against IWU and WC, both of which will certainly be favored. The NCC starting lineup is composed entirely of players who have been in school for four years. These are guys who have both climbed very high up on the mountain, and sometimes played down to a level they probably couldn't imagine, especially after last year. If nothing else they should be, and I believe will be, playing for pride. The Cardinals may go down against IWU and WC, but if so, I look for them to go down fighting rather than whimpering. Add in the "mystique" of The Hangar, and interesting times should be at hand for the remainder of the season.

[Gregory Sager]

Was not there when Dennie Bridges and company took all the marbles in 1997, with Crabtree as National Player of the Year and a freshman PG named Corey Koon. 

Korey Coon.

Or Cman, if that helps.

[bopol]

The CCIW championship is just one portion of the target. The national tournament and championship is the bulls eye.
In that light, every game is important for Wheaton. Should they falter at NCC and finish 18-7, they may or may not host the CCIW tourney. But, host or not, I believe they would then have to win the conference tourney in order to go to the national tournament. Should they then lose their opening conference tourney contest and finish 18-8, I think its definitely season over. Even if they win their 1st night's game and then lose the championship game and finish 19-8, I think there would be a distinct possibility that they wouldn't be invited to the big dance. So, bottom line, every game is very important.

As far as NCC making the conference tourney, its certainly a tall order. As previously mentioned, they 1st need to run the table against the Weenies, the Wheaties, and the Jays. AND, they would still need help in somebody beating Augie.
However, I look for the Cardinals to battle tooth and nail and for every possession to be a war against IWU and WC, both of which will certainly be favored. The NCC starting lineup is composed entirely of players who have been in school for four years. These are guys who have both climbed very high up on the mountain, and sometimes played down to a level they probably couldn't imagine, especially after last year. If nothing else they should be, and I believe will be, playing for pride. The Cardinals may go down against IWU and WC, but if so, I look for them to go down fighting rather than whimpering. Add in the "mystique" of The Hangar, and interesting times should be at hand for the remainder of the season.

Only IWU is assured a bid, but I wouldn't be surprised if an 8-loss CCIW team makes it, especially if they can reach the tournament finals.  Wheaton, Carthage and Augie will all have nice records against RRO, which is a definite improvement over last year when most of the teams on the table when the Pool C picks were done had some major fundamental flaws (for example, Augie was just 2-8 against RRO).   In fact, the suspicion was the last pick was 15-6 Randolph which was 5-5 against RRO.

[iwu70]

Thanks Q, thanks Greg.  Yes, Cman could work.  As you know, I'm a bit "name-challenged" at times.    Glad you both knew who I meant!  '97 was a vintage year for the Titans.   Don't ask me to spell Keelan's name, OK?  I have enough trouble with Ziemnik.  We all keep going . . .

Big game at NCC -- hope the Titans are ready for an important away win.  WC will have their chance there as well.  Big battle still for the fourth tournament spot.

IWU70

[AppletonRocks]

This board reminds me of "Groundhog Day".