MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

My take on Pool C...

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.msg1581063#msg1581063

[Pat Coleman]

Congrats to Tyler Peters of Wheaton and Zman (yes, Andrew Ziemnik) of IWU for their Academic All-American honors.  They are the two CCIW men players designated this year as Academic All-Americans, nationally or regionally.

Four women from the CCIW won the honor, including Stephanie Kuzmanic of Carthage as the Academic All-American of the Year!, in D3.

Guess it shows who is the fairer and more academically accomplished sex, at least amongst CCIW D3 basketball players.  Full story on the CCIW site.

Congrats to all these fine student-athletes.

IWU70

Just curious....how are the academic all-americans selected?

SIDs nominate, a ballot is compiled and SIDs vote. The candidates' academic and athletic credentials are both presented.

When I was an SID, I tended to favor standouts (or at least starters) on teams who had high GPAs in difficult majors.

[toooldtohoop]

Congrats to Tyler Peters of Wheaton and Zman (yes, Andrew Ziemnik) of IWU for their Academic All-American honors.  They are the two CCIW men players designated this year as Academic All-Americans, nationally or regionally.

Four women from the CCIW won the honor, including Stephanie Kuzmanic of Carthage as the Academic All-American of the Year!, in D3.

Guess it shows who is the fairer and more academically accomplished sex, at least amongst CCIW D3 basketball players.  Full story on the CCIW site.

Congrats to all these fine student-athletes.

IWU70

Just curious....how are the academic all-americans selected?

SIDs nominate, a ballot is compiled and SIDs vote. The candidates' academic and athletic credentials are both presented.

When I was an SID, I tended to favor standouts (or at least starters) on teams who had high GPAs in difficult majors.

Thanks Pat. 

[Gregory Sager]

Re:  CCIW scoring champ and All-conference.

The most important stat in basketball has to be winning percentage.  Of the major sports (basketball, football, baseball), star players in basketball have the greatest influence on winning games.  Baseball is way different--there I'd have no problem giving the MVP to a guy on the last place team if he has the best numbers and I'd go even further to ignore W-L for pitchers. 

Points per game has to be one of the most overrated stats in all of sports.  Obviously there are many facets to being a good basketball player and scoring is a big one.  The idea is that ppg is a measurement of scoring ability but in reality it is a bad one--with too many confounders.  Without going into it more, just think of Grinnell basketball.

If you want to just look at scoring ability, points per shot isn't perfect but it's way better than ppg.  There are a few ways to calculate this and I like counting FTs as 1/2 of a shot (you get 1/2 the points so this makes sense).

PPS for a few of the scoring guards in CCIW play:
Henry: 1.06
Kelly:  1.23
Teuscher: 1.28
Peters: 1.15

I definitely wouldn't put Henry on the 1st or 2nd team.  We'll see how smart the coaches are. Just to show I'm not biased, I'll agree that based on those numbers, Peters might be a little overrated as a scorer, simply because he doesn't shoot FTs well.   It is the entirety of his game that still makes him MOP, IMO. 

Again, stats like these don't tell the whole story of how good a basketball player is, but if we are going to make an argument for all-conference based on a statistic, it's should be one much better than points per game.

As I said in my earlier post, he's also on the CCIW leaderboard in five other categories: Assists, free throw percentage (the current listing on cciw.org is in error, as Henry is shooting FTs better in CCIW play than Dylan Overstreet by .001), steals, three-point percentage, and three-pointers made. (I'm not counting minutes played.)

But I can also turn your argument around. You make the argument that team winning percentage has to be paramount, because basketball stars have more influence upon the outcome of a game than do baseball stars or football stars (a thesis with which I don't necessarily agree, but I'll use it here for the sake of argument). How, then, do you account for multiple players from the same team making first or second team? They clearly have lessened statistics (with a glaring exception or two, such as Tyler Peters), but it's their success in tandem that is making them, in your eyes, qualified for first or second team. In other words, it's a circular argument. They should be recognized for individual achievement because they're part of a successful team, but by being part of a successful team it mitigates their ability to be statistically compared to anyone else.

Juwan Henry has done what he has done this year with minimal help -- much more minimal now that Aaron Weaver is no longer around. Opposing CCIW coaches have thrown everything short of a box-and-one at him; Mike Schauer used no fewer than four different defenders at one point or another to try to guard Henry last Wednesday (Peters, Brayden Teuscher, Caleb DeMoss, and Tad Fisher), and Matt Nadelhoffer was so desperate to find an answer for Henry on Saturday that he finally threw Deavis Johnson (!) at him out on the perimeter. Every coach in the league now sends two perimeter players out to meet Henry between the rings in order to take the ball out of his hands, knowing full well that the only other Viking who can create something for himself, JayQuan Lee, is a very unreliable perimeter shooter who also doesn't perform up to spec at the free-throw line.

Given what he's up against, I argue that it makes him a more formidable candidate for high honors, not less.

It would appear that even though Henry will likely win the scoring title, it would be a stretch for a freshman player which such deficiencies in the emotional and mental aspects of his game (slamming balls down and shoving opposing players and getting ejected) to be awarded first team all-conference status, or even second team for that mater. I think 3rd team all-conference would be the highest possible level he might be able to achieve, and even that is no guarantee.

You say that as though you have firsthand knowledge of what criteria each of the coaches uses when selecting players for the All-CCIW team. Perhaps Todd Raridon has shared his thoughts with you on that score, but I don't think that he represents all of his peers in that regard.

Lets just say my curious nature as an investigator led me to make some phone calls under the guise of being a reporter for a local newspaper. Of course, some of the coaches may change their minds between now and the date on which the voting is done.        

Right. In another one of your cloak-and-dagger operations, you called six CCIW head coaches out of the blue and conned them all into not only thinking that you're a reporter but into soliciting each for the contents of their undisclosed-to-the-public ballots for the All-CCIW team. Now, tell me again about that bridge in Brooklyn that you keep trying to sell me.

[AndOne]

IWU #4 (526 votes) in the latest D3Hoops poll. Augie and Wheaton in ORVs. Augie with 31 votes and Wheaton with 30.

"On paper" the Sat !WU @ WC game doesn't look close, but things will likely play out in closer fashion than the vote totals in the latest poll would suggest. Half the WC football team under each basket for a maximum level of harassment?

I sense the Weenies have too much strength and depth for the Wheaties.
It will be interesting to see how IWU counters Nate Haynes.
Also, the marksmanship battle pitting Peters, Teuscher, DeMoss, & Fisher vs. Overstreet, Sodemann, & Nelson.
Ziemnik, Davis, & Mayberger with a huge advantage over P. Smith, Berg, & J. Smith.

[Gregory Sager]

Half the WC football team under each basket for a maximum level of harassment?

The problem is that they're just not very good at it. They're quite noisy, and they're very intimidating-looking. (Wheaton football players don't take a back seat to anybody in the CCIW when it comes to looking buff.) But, "Angel, angel, on the rim / Please don't let that shot go in!" during opponent FTs, rattling car keys, or the ancient we're-about-to-lose-but-so-what chestnut, "That's alright, that's OK, you're gonna work for us some day!" just don't cut it as far as student-section taunts go.

Postgame prayer circles or not, Wheaton basketball players can certainly play the game with a mean streak to them. But Wheaton student sections lack bite to go with their decibel levels.

[Titan Q]

Half the WC football team under each basket for a maximum level of harassment?

http://www.iwuhoops.com/chris5.jpg

[Gregory Sager]

Lest anyone think that I'm naturally predisposed as a North Park fan to disparage Wheaton student sections, I should reiterate that the cleverest thing that I've ever seen in a student section in decades was a few years ago at King Arena, when a Wheaton student showed up with a basketball rim and net. He lined himself up directly behind the west basket at the same eye level for a free-throw shooter as the real rim, and then moved his rim abruptly to the left or right whenever a North Park player attempted a free throw at that end of the floor.

In terms of distracting an opposing player's free throws, it ranks right up there on the all-time list with the ol' unfold-a-Playboy-centerfold-as-they're-shooting trick. 

[AndOne]

Half the WC football team under each basket for a maximum level of harassment?

The problem is that they're just not very good at it. They're quite noisy, and they're very intimidating-looking. (Wheaton football players don't take a back seat to anybody in the CCIW when it comes to looking buff.) But, "Angel, angel, on the rim / Please don't let that shot go in!" during opponent FTs, rattling car keys, or the ancient we're-about-to-lose-but-so-what chestnut, "That's alright, that's OK, you're gonna work for us some day!" just don't cut it as far as student-section taunts go.

Postgame prayer circles or not, Wheaton basketball players can certainly play the game with a mean streak to them. But Wheaton student sections lack bite to go with their decibel levels.

Yes. but sources indicate the WC football players have been working on some new taunts that will surely unnerve the Boys from Bloomington.
A sampling from among their new repertoire:

Jesus loves us yes we know
Dylan Overstreet (or insert any Greenie) is a shmoe
When we win by one free throw
Happily to chapel we all will go!

Take that!!! 

[Gregory Sager]

Your ability to scan to the meter of verse does not match your creativity, Mark. Although it would work as:

Jesus loves us, this we know.
Andrew Ziemnik is a schmoe.
When we win by one free throw,
Then to chapel we will go!

If the Wheaton football players end up using this, I want part of the copyright.

[Pat Coleman]

Thanks for fixing the meter, Gregory. That was driving me crazy.

[AndOne]

Postgame prayer circles or not, Wheaton basketball players can certainly play the game with a mean streak to them.

Perhaps the WC basketball players have begun to doubt the 1st line in the above new student section chant?
After the WC loss at NCC last Sat night, the Wheaton players failed to form their customary center court circle or to offer any other sort of prayer. Instead, they made a very quick and direct route to their locker room. First time I've ever seen a WC game in either football or basketball that didn't feature a post game prayer.   

[Gregory Sager]

Thanks for fixing the meter, Gregory. That was driving me crazy.

Doggerel: It's what I do.

Postgame prayer circles or not, Wheaton basketball players can certainly play the game with a mean streak to them.

Perhaps the WC basketball players have begun to doubt the 1st line in the above new student section chant?
After the WC loss at NCC last Sat night, the Wheaton players failed to form their customary center court circle or to offer any other sort of prayer. Instead, they made a very quick and direct route to their locker room. First time I've ever seen a WC game in either football or basketball that didn't feature a post game prayer.   

Perhaps they were under institutional instruction to get out of Sodom Naperville as quickly as possible.

[AndOne]

Postgame prayer circles or not, Wheaton basketball players can certainly play the game with a mean streak to them.

Perhaps the WC basketball players have begun to doubt the 1st line in the above new student section chant?
After the WC loss at NCC last Sat night, the Wheaton players failed to form their customary center court circle or to offer any other sort of prayer. Instead, they made a very quick and direct route to their locker room. First time I've ever seen a WC game in either football or basketball that didn't feature a post game prayer.   

Perhaps they were under institutional instruction to get out of Sodom Naperville as quickly as possible.

Yes, the Sin City of the Western Suburbs does hold many a temptation that could lead a young man astray.     

[AndOne]

Your ability to scan to the meter of verse does not match your creativity, Mark. Although it would work as:

Jesus loves us, this we know.
Andrew Ziemnik is a schmoe.
When we win by one free throw,
Then to chapel we will go!

At my advanced age, I'll take the ability to occasionally be creative over any ability to "scan the meter of verse."