MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[iwu70]

I was very impressed with Teuscher.  Great shooting, from three and his intermediate range game is impressive.  Very nice touch from 15 feet and in.   Can't compare Peters and Haines -- different roles entirely, different places on the floor. 

As to Jordan Nelson, he has bravado and swagger no doubt.  He did make the treys, AndOne, so you gotta give him credit and let him strut his stuff.  If the opposing side wants to foul him, put him on his pants, what was your phrase?, "a strong and quick elbow to the mouth,"  that's not exactly the best sportsmanship either -- and you'd have to accept a flagrant and put your team further in a hole with two shots and an extra loss of possession, perhaps after he just hit a trey.  Someone might get tossed.  Yes, you're free to do that.  I certainly know of such cases from my own playing days, too.  I had a high school coach who once instructed me to heavily foul such a hot, on fire shooter, to knock some defensive sense into him, to put him on the floor with a good jolt.   I think a guy running down the court, like Nelson, returning to play D (and he's a pretty good perimeter defender too!) with three fingers showing, is hardly a great concern.  He did stick it to WC pretty well in the first half, leading to the Titans' nine point advantage at halftime.  Did he get T'd up for it?  Don't recall seeing that.  I can handle a little swagger, bravado and shows of emotion at big moments in the game.  I doubt it bothered the experienced Wheaton players at all -- and they can still pray with each other at the end.  Bless them. 

Perhaps Rose will "have a word" with him, perhaps not.  I'm pretty sure Rose likes his swagger, his confidence and those trey bombs coming off the bench each game.  Sure looks good for the Titans next year with a three-guy, three guard possibility, at least at times, with Overstreet, Sodemann and your man, Nelson, playing, perhaps starting on the Titan perimeter.  That will be a very tough senior trio.

I think Tyler Peters wins the MOP award, though my vote goes to Overstreet, yes, green glasses and all.  The Titans are 12-2, outright champions after all.  Overstreet's the stick that stirs the green, Titan brew.  What a great game, career-high scoring night he had at Wheaton.

IWU70

[USee]

* Senior Vince Kmiec scored 13 points, and added 7 rebounds, 2 assists, and 3 steals. While I won't detail them all here, Vince appeared among the conference leaders in several categories this year. Among his superlatives is the fact that Vince, who finished sixth in the league in scoring this year, led the league in steals in both 2012-13, and 2013-14. In an era where all too frequently the focus is on offensive statistics, accomplishments on the defensive side are often overlooked. However, any coach will tell you its defense that really wins games.
SIMPLY PUT, GIVEN HIS STATISTICS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL, VINCE IS PROBABLY THE BEST COMBINATION OFFENSIVE-DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN THE CCIW. SURELY, HE IS #1 AMONG THE PERIMETER/WING PLAYERS IF NOT IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE.

Kmiec is a great player, but he is not the best combination off/def player in CCIW.

Not only does Tyler Peters outscore Kmiec, but is the best wing defender in the conference. If you had to bet a months salary on one player to play wing defense (especially on-ball defense), you'd put your money on Peters every time.

Rollthunder--

First of all, nobody said Peters doesn't outscore Kmiec.

Peters is without doubt a great player. And, not just offensively. However, many of those who have been around for a little more time than it takes to rack up a grand total of 7 posts would not bet a months salary that he is the league's best defender, especially not every time! 

The truth be known, after both North Central's win over WC in Naperville and after the IWU game last night, several great long term Wheaton fans confided to me that they believe Peters wasn't even Wheaton's best all-around asset this season. Mr. Teuscher and Mr. Haynes both received some support in that regard.

As I said, Tyler is a great player. 1st team all conference, likely CCIW POY, and an All-American. But, Vince Kmiec has a more impressive defensive dossier. If the steals stat isn't enough, consider also that Vince had more defensive rebounds than did Tyler. And, don't forget the feelings of some of your fellow orange fans. 

To be fair, you are arguing a different point here than your original post.  Here you argue defense and your first post was as a combo perimeter player on both ends of the floor.  I agree with this post that Kmiec may be a better pure defender but I wouldn't take Kmiec over Peters as a combo offensive/defensive player.

I also think I would put Kmiec on the first team all conference over Gamble.  A has them the other way and I suppose it really depends on what order Raridon nominates them.  Although Kmiec over Gamble makes a pretty guard heavy first team.  I think the Z-man vs Davis debate will also depend on Roses positioning of their nominations. 

As for the game Saturday, congrats to the Titans. They were better.  You can't give up 97 pts and beat many teams. 

[jtsmith231]

Many people have mentioned that the IWU-Wheaton matchup was largely determined by the differences in depth, and I couldn't agree more. In particular, I thought it noteworthy that Wheaton's final comeback attempt stalled around the 6:30 mark, exactly when Peter Smith and Michael Berg both fouled out within ten seconds of each other for the Thunder. Wheaton had begun to gain ground on the Titans (cutting the lead to 3), but from that point they couldn't get any closer and IWU eventually pulled away. Titan Q's post about a tightly-called game being a benefit for IWU definitely turned out to be prophetic. Especially with Victor Davis shooting lights out from the charity stripe!

However, tight officiating is far from the primary reason the Thunder lost. IWU outplayed Wheaton in just about every facet of the game, and their shooting was nothing short of unbelievable at times. I only say all this because it struck me that Coach Rose certainly proved exactly why having a deep rotation is so key, especially late in the year. I hope Wheaton will have a roster like that in the future!

As a spectator, I do also have to say that the 57 (!) foul calls did put a damper on an otherwise phenomenal D3 hoops evening, with high quality play from both sides in an exciting environment. I didn't notice either team getting the brunt of more bad calls than the other, but as they say, fans come to watch the players perform, not the referees.

[iwu70]

Usee, agree totally.  Giving up 97 will not get you many wins.  I was happily surprised the Titans got to 78 so darn fast, let alone getting to 97 on a team of Wheaton's quality.  Titans averaged 82 per game for the CCIW campaign.  Amazing really.  And not a single player over 13 ppg, and not a single player in the top 15 or more in minutes played per game.  Shows the depth and the quality of play they have through the rotation, down 9-12 deep.  It's gonna be big now going forward.  Hope the Titans get at least 3-4 tournament games at The Shirk.  Such an advantage for IWU playing there.  Titan faithful will come out and try to get them deep into the dance this year.

IWU70

[mwunder]

Many have mentioned Tyler Peters winning the MOP award this season.  My question, how does he get the award when he wasn't even named player of the week ONCE during the CCIW season?  Name a time in the past 15 years where that has happened.

[mwunder]

Many have mentioned Tyler Peters winning the MOP award this season.  My question, how does he get the award when he wasn't even named player of the week ONCE during the CCIW season?  Name a time in the past 15 years where that has happened.

A little research shows that it happened just last season!!  Ha! 

And the season before that!

[USee]

Many have mentioned Tyler Peters winning the MOP award this season.  My question, how does he get the award when he wasn't even named player of the week ONCE during the CCIW season?  Name a time in the past 15 years where that has happened.

Zero correlation (fundamentally) between MOP and POW. MOP is voted on by the coaches. POW is picked by someone in the conference office (nominated by school SID's) . Apples and oranges.

[newCCIWfan]

Many have mentioned Tyler Peters winning the MOP award this season.  My question, how does he get the award when he wasn't even named player of the week ONCE during the CCIW season?  Name a time in the past 15 years where that has happened.

A little research shows that it happened just last season!!  Ha! 

And the season before that!

I believe that Tyler Peters was named CCIW POW during Week 1 (11/18/14) this season.

Similarly Derek Raridon was once named POW last season (12/17/12) and Tim McCrary 3 times in 2011-12

[USee]

There have been multiple instances of the MOP being a player who received POW 1x, and often that one time came during the non-conference slate (which doesn't count toward MOP voting):

2014 (TBD) Tyler Peters ( non conference week)
2013  Derek Raridon (non conference week)
2006 Rick Harrigan (non conference week)
2005 Adam Dauksas (January)
2002 Antoine McDaniel (January)

[havej]

And One - certainly appreciate the +k although to be honest, not sure what it means, but that's OK.

On the basketball side, enjoyed the comments posted on the NCC seniors.  I am sure each of them certainly appreciates what was written.

Wanted to make this point on Gamble which is probably overlooked by the casual observer - his decision making and passing out of the post has improved incredibly since he started playing college ball.  He usually commands a double on the low box and his ability to find the open teammate and make the correct basketball play is most impressive.  Wanted to commend the young man for that huge developmental step.

I'm sure I'll get ripped for this but if I was a GM in the CCIW and there was an open draft, I'd take Gamble first or second.  In addition to his scoring and rebounding, not many D3 players are able to really make their teammates better.

And to Unanimous - much to your surprise I'm sure, I am not secretly MJ.  At the time that discussion was taking place the real Mike was most likely taking care of
the every need of his recently born twins.

When will all CCIW be announced?

[mwunder]

Many have mentioned Tyler Peters winning the MOP award this season.  My question, how does he get the award when he wasn't even named player of the week ONCE during the CCIW season?  Name a time in the past 15 years where that has happened.

A little research shows that it happened just last season!!  Ha! 

And the season before that!

I believe that Tyler Peters was named CCIW POW during Week 1 (11/18/14) this season.

Similarly Derek Raridon was once named POW last season (12/17/12) and Tim McCrary 3 times in 2011-12

Conference play doesn't begin until January.

[mwunder]

Many have mentioned Tyler Peters winning the MOP award this season.  My question, how does he get the award when he wasn't even named player of the week ONCE during the CCIW season?  Name a time in the past 15 years where that has happened.

Zero correlation (fundamentally) between MOP and POW. MOP is voted on by the coaches. POW is picked by someone in the conference office (nominated by school SID's) . Apples and oranges.

I'll buy that argument fundamentally, and also get how being hot for a week or two in the season can be overshadowed by being consistent throughout the entire conference schedule.  Just didn't strike me as having happened too often until I actually looked into it.

[John Gleich]

He did make the treys

This is true.

so you gotta give him credit

I thought he got credit for them already... 3*3 = 9. That was IWU's half-time lead.

and (you gotta) let him strut his stuff.

Why?

Gesturing is a form of taunting. It's poor sportsmanship and it's against the rules. If seen, it *could* have been called.

Certainly, if the first gesture was called a T, then the second and third (progressive) gestures wouldn't have happened. The T could have even plopped him down on the bench next to coach Rose, and with the efficiency of certain Wheaton players (Peters is 96%, though he was probably not on the floor due to foul trouble, but 90% Teuscher most certainly was), IWU's 7 point lead might have been cut to 5... and Teuscher's subsequent 3 cutting it further to 2. And had he sat the rest of the half, that's 11 fewer IWU points... sure they could have come from somewhere, but it's no guarantee.

It could have greatly affected the outcome of the game and it was completely, 100% unnecessary.

Just play the game and let the quality of play stand out. Not individuals.

[realist]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but it seems to me if the ref thought it was taunting it would have been called.  Basketball is a game that is supposed to be played for fun, and rendering the players emotionless like robots sort of runs counter to that thought.  I personally don't care for players drawing attention to themselves for something they have done, but, gosh, when I was that age I probably would have done it myself (if they would have had a 3 pt. shot at the time, and if I had made one let alone 3).

[AndOne]

Realist--

I honestly don't think the refs saw it happen. In each case, one was still standing next to the Wheaton player who was inbounding the ball, one had already run down to the other end of the court under the Wheaton basket. The third was on the side of the court opposite the benches. Nelson was on the bench side of the court and was turned toward that sideline (away from the ref on the opposite side).

You are 100% right that the game should be fun, and expressionless robots belonging someplace besides the basketball court. However, I believe its entirely possible to have fun playing while at the same time displaying plenty of emotions which don't disrespect your opponent, your school, or yourself. Thats all.