MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[iwumichigander]

There are many ways to try to judge the better team, IWU or Wash. U. : 1) Wash. U. has a total of 2 losses, both to CCIW teams on the road, a 25-point hammering by IWU and a 2-point loss at Carthage w/o Malcom Kelly (kind of hard to believe). Wash. U's only win against CCIW teams was a very close 4-point win over Wheaton in St. Louis. So Wash. U. is 1-2 vs. CCIW teams and IWU, if it wins the CCIW tournament (a big if considering what happened last year and what could happen again), will have a 14-2 CCIW record. That favors IWU. 2) Using a different approach to evaluate the relative strengths of the CCIW compared to the UAA, look at Chicago's record. The Maroons are 15-9 and 8-5 in the UAA with a home game left against Wash. U. on Mar. 1. So Chicago is one of the better teams in the UAA. However, their record against CCIW teams is 1-3 with their sole victory against NPU. In their 3 losses to Wheaton, IWU, and Augie, Chicago lost by an average of 20.6 points. That analysis, which I doubt the Midwest Committee will utilize, also favors IWU. I believe that if IWU wins the conf. tournamnet, the Titans will be the top seed in the final and unpublicized Midwest Region rankings.

Aside from Midwest Ranking Stats:
Midwest (data through Sun 2/16)
1   Washington U.   20-2 (.909)/.600/6-2   
2   Ill Wesleyan   20-3 (.870)/.558/5-2
I think it is this simple, WashU has a 17 game win streak (which is subsequent to the loss at IWU) with a L10 record of 10-0.  IWU has an L10 record of 9-1 and a 7 game win streak. Today, I would have to rank WashU higher.
However ---  WashU still has to get past UChgo March 1 and, of course, IWU needs to take care of business in the CCIW Tournament.  Dependent on this week's rankings,  IWU could play against two RROs and with 2 W's that could tip the final rankings.

[John Gleich]

Realist--

I honestly don't think the refs saw it happen. In each case, one was still standing next to the Wheaton player who was inbounding the ball, one had already run down to the other end of the court under the Wheaton basket. The third was on the side of the court opposite the benches. Nelson was on the bench side of the court and was turned toward that sideline (away from the ref on the opposite side).

I agree. Their focus shifted from the player who shot the ball to the trajectory (with the exception of the refs who made sure the shooter wasn't fouled and that there wasn't any mauling going on inside on a potential rebound) to the following possession.

And if you think that refs catch everything that happens out there... not even close. There are 10 players and 3 refs. They don't see a lot of what transpires.

You are 100% right that the game should be fun, and expressionless robots belonging someplace besides the basketball court. However, I believe its entirely possible to have fun playing while at the same time displaying plenty of emotions which don't disrespect your opponent, your school, or yourself. Thats all.

I agree. I'm not advocating for zombieball. Far from it. but there's a wide range of positive emotional responses that aren't disparaging and don't scream "ME! ME! ME!" while at the same time denegrating the opponent.

[unanimous22]

He did make the treys

This is true.

so you gotta give him credit

I thought he got credit for them already... 3*3 = 9. That was IWU's half-time lead.

and (you gotta) let him strut his stuff.

Why?

Gesturing is a form of taunting. It's poor sportsmanship and it's against the rules. If seen, it *could* have been called.

Certainly, if the first gesture was called a T, then the second and third (progressive) gestures wouldn't have happened. The T could have even plopped him down on the bench next to coach Rose, and with the efficiency of certain Wheaton players (Peters is 96%, though he was probably not on the floor due to foul trouble, but 90% Teuscher most certainly was), IWU's 7 point lead might have been cut to 5... and Teuscher's subsequent 3 cutting it further to 2. And had he sat the rest of the half, that's 11 fewer IWU points... sure they could have come from somewhere, but it's no guarantee.

It could have greatly affected the outcome of the game and it was completely, 100% unnecessary.

Just play the game and let the quality of play stand out. Not individuals.

This is really being blown out of proportion. IMO Michael Berg was closer to getting a T for throwing elbows after the whistle than Nelson.

[Titan Q]

My take on Pool C - http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.msg1582739#msg1582739.

After looking at this, I have Wheaton and Augustana in great shape...and I have Carthage in too and in way better shape than I thought yesterday.

The CCIW has a chance to get 4 in.

[realist]

Realist--

I honestly don't think the refs saw it happen. In each case, one was still standing next to the Wheaton player who was inbounding the ball, one had already run down to the other end of the court under the Wheaton basket. The third was on the side of the court opposite the benches. Nelson was on the bench side of the court and was turned toward that sideline (away from the ref on the opposite side).

I agree. Their focus shifted from the player who shot the ball to the trajectory (with the exception of the refs who made sure the shooter wasn't fouled and that there wasn't any mauling going on inside on a potential rebound) to the following possession.

And if you think that refs catch everything that happens out there... not even close. There are 10 players and 3 refs. They don't see a lot of what transpires.

You are 100% right that the game should be fun, and expressionless robots belonging someplace besides the basketball court. However, I believe its entirely possible to have fun playing while at the same time displaying plenty of emotions which don't disrespect your opponent, your school, or yourself. Thats all.

I agree. I'm not advocating for zombieball. Far from it. but there's a wide range of positive emotional responses that aren't disparaging and don't scream "ME! ME! ME!" while at the same time denegrating the opponent.

I can agree the ref's didn't see it the first, and possibly the 2nd time, but please it was at Wheaton, and was everyone in the stands, not to mention the bench asleep, and not calling attention to this young man's actions?  I respectfully disagree, and apparently the refs at the game decided what he did wasn't taunting, and swallowed their whistles.  I have spoken with many refs over the years, and they "see alot of things that they don't see".   If Wheaton's coach was "so disrespected" why didn't he call a time out and get in the ref's ear?   If IWU's sacred reputation was being tarnished why didn't their coach call a time out to bench the kid?
Guys the game has moved on, and what the kid did is normal or typical behavior in our world today.  FWIW:  I saw guys doing the same type thing 40+ years ago after an dunk. 
When did sports become so "politically correct" that we must at all costs  make the game so "plastic" that we suck all the spontaneous fun that remains in our world out of it?
The kid was happy he made the 3, get over it.  The kid was happy he made the 2nd 3 get over it.
The kid was happy he made the 3rd 3 get over it.

[Naperick]

My take on Pool C - http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.msg1582739#msg1582739.

After looking at this, I have Wheaton and Augustana in great shape...and I have Carthage in too and in way better shape than I thought yesterday.

The CCIW has a chance to get 4 in.

Wow!  I just looked at Q's take on pool C and I feel good about Wheaton & Augustana's chances even if they lose their 1st CCIW tourney game.  Also very surprised to see Carthage with a decent chance. 

Do the Red Men still have a chance if they go 1-1 this weekend?  How about 0-1?

[Naperick]

Wanted to make this point on Gamble which is probably overlooked by the casual observer - his decision making and passing out of the post has improved incredibly since he started playing college ball.  He usually commands a double on the low box and his ability to find the open teammate and make the correct basketball play is most impressive.  Wanted to commend the young man for that huge developmental step.

Gamble was unbelievable against the Bluejays!  He not only shot a high percentage but he made his free-throws.  He beat double and even triple teams at times and made some great passes.  The box score shows he had 3 assists, it seems like he had more.  I thought both teams played well but Gamble was a superstar.  Kudos to his teammates for getting him the ball.  I will miss watching him play.

[sac]

A Carthage loss in the semi-finals drops their W% to .615

That isn't going to make the tournament.

[Hoosier Titan]

Congratulations to IWU's Jordan Nelson, the CCIW player of the week:

http://www.cciw.org/news/2014/2/24/MBB_0224141148.aspx

[iwu70]

Gamble had a great career, great player.  One of the best in the CCIW in recent years. Good luck to all the seniors in their run up to graduation and their post-basketball endeavors.

Q, thanks for all the good work, assessment on Pool C.  Sure hope CCIW gets three in -- though Carthage does seem a stretch to me.  We'll see.  You've been right on target most years in the past, so if CCIW gets four in that would be fabulous.  Thanks again.

On Nelson, surely one of the refs saw the supposed infractions x 3.  I don't think it was an infraction and it appears the refs didn't either.  Get over it.  And, FYI, that bravado filled, unsportsmanlike trey assassin was just name CCIW Player of the Week for his play, his trey bombing, his high percentage shooting from almost in the lobby, almost in the third row of seats.  Congrats to Jordan Nelson on the award.  I sure hope he drills a few more trey bombs this weekend in the more comfortable environs of The Shirk.  And, when he does, I hope he rushes back to play tough D with three fingers in the air.  The Shirk faithful will be cheering and no Ts will be called.  Trust me. 

Let the games  begin.

IWU70

[AndOne]

I can agree the ref's didn't see it the first, and possibly the 2nd time, but please it was at Wheaton, and was everyone in the stands, not to mention the bench asleep, and not calling attention to this young man's actions?  I respectfully disagree, and apparently the refs at the game decided what he did wasn't taunting, and swallowed their whistles.  I have spoken with many refs over the years, and they "see alot of things that they don't see".   If Wheaton's coach was "so disrespected" why didn't he call a time out and get in the ref's ear?   If IWU's sacred reputation was being tarnished why didn't their coach call a time out to bench the kid?
Guys the game has moved on, and what the kid did is normal or typical behavior in our world today.  FWIW:  I saw guys doing the same type thing 40+ years ago after an dunk. 
When did sports become so "politically correct" that we must at all costs avoid making the game so "plastic" that we suck all the little fun that remains in our world out of it?
The kid was happy he made the 3, get over it.  The kid was happy he made the 2nd 3 get over it.
The kid was happy he made the 3rd 3 get over it.
Be honest.  If the kid was on the team you supported you wouldn't post a negative thing about.

Realist---

1. Were you there? I was in the 1st row right behind the announcer. I know what happened, where everyone was, and who saw and didn't see what.

2. I understand being happy over successfully hitting the baskets. A quick single pump of the fist, or a single clap of the hands would adequately express that happiness. But looking toward the Wheaton fans and demonstratively snapping off 3 salutes or shaking 3 fingers back and forth several times was way beyond a normal expression of happiness.

3. And yes, you bet I celebrated like a rock star after every thunderous dunk I threw down when I played. 

4. You want honesty. This may come as a shock, but I am honestly not a fan of either Wesleyan OR Wheaton---and thats a fact that can be verified by a multitude of my fellow posters.  It seems like you may have thought that only a Wheaton fan would criticize a WC opponent.
I was at the game as a neutral observer only for the enjoyment of watching what shaped up to be a great game between two excellent teams. If a Wheaton player would have pulled the same crap, I would have had the same reaction and comments.
Nelson has game. He needs to play it with classy exuberance.

[Titan Q]

Aside from Midwest Ranking Stats:
Midwest (data through Sun 2/16)
1   Washington U.   20-2 (.909)/.600/6-2   
2   Ill Wesleyan   20-3 (.870)/.558/5-2
I think it is this simple, WashU has a 17 game win streak (which is subsequent to the loss at IWU) with a L10 record of 10-0.  IWU has an L10 record of 9-1 and a 7 game win streak. Today, I would have to rank WashU higher.
However ---  WashU still has to get past UChgo March 1 and, of course, IWU needs to take care of business in the CCIW Tournament.  Dependent on this week's rankings,  IWU could play against two RROs and with 2 W's that could tip the final rankings.

If IWU wins two games this weekend in the CCIW tournament, I'm very confident the Titans will move ahead of Wash U in the Midwest.  The SOS gap will narrow significantly and IWU will gain an edge in RRO.  Those factors, combined with IWU's head-to-head win over the Bears, will be enough to make the flip.

[titanhammer]

Congratulations to IWU's Jordan Nelson, the CCIW player of the week:

http://www.cciw.org/news/2014/2/24/MBB_0224141148.aspx

Great job, Jordan!  While Jordan and the Titans will be battling in the conference semis on Friday night, the high school we both attended (and a few other Titans) will also be in a huge battle.  The #3 3A Lincoln Railsplitters host the #1 3A Lions of Springfield Lanphier.  While many will consider this to not be related to the CCIW, I'm guessing there could be a CCIW caliber player on either roster.  I'm sure that Coach Nadelhoffer and Coach Rose would be interested in some players on either squad, as would the rest of the CCIW coaching contingent.  Lanphier won the first meeting in Springfield, with a rebound bucket at the buzzer in regulation to send it to overtime.
Titan Hammer, and a few ball pein hammers, will be at The Shirk on Friday and Saturday to see some quality basketball.  Praying for the safety of all players as they give it their best.  Ever a chance we'll see two CCIW teams battling for the NCAA D 3 Title?

[Titan Q]

A Carthage loss in the semi-finals drops their W% to .615

That isn't going to make the tournament.

Maybe.  But as a Pool C candidate, Carthage has a tremendous SOS, 4 wins over ranked teams, 10 games played vs ranked teams (will be 11 after Friday), and two extremely significant wins (IWU and Wash U).  They should get to the table in time to be discussed for several rounds (Wheaton and Augustana should both get selected).  At some point those factors I mentioned are going to jump out when evaluated vs low SOS, low win vs RRO teams.  Also, Carthage's win over Wash U could be a big factor when stacked up vs Emory (0-2 vs Wash U)...and Emory should be on the table at about the same time as the Red Men.

This is a very different year in Pool C.  Carthage is right in the middle of this.

[Titan Q]

Wow!  I just looked at Q's take on pool C and I feel good about Wheaton & Augustana's chances even if they lose their 1st CCIW tourney game. 

I do think they are both in...even with 0-1 this weekend.