MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[kiko]

One other thought.  This jumped out at me when Titan Q recently resurrected the list of incoming recruits for the 2010-11 season:

Unofficial list of CCIW recruits (6/24/10)...

North Central
* John Colao (6-3 SG, Libertyville H.S.) - 6.8 ppg, 4 rpg   
* Matt Dickinson (6-8 PF, Warren Township H.S.) - ?   
* Mortell Flowers (6-4 F, Oak Park-River Forest H.S.) - ?   
* Landon Gamble (6-5 F/C, Lockport Township H.S.) - 9.2 ppg, 4.5 rpg 
* Brad Hallstein (6-8 PF, Normal West H.S.) - 16.4 ppg, 7.1 rpg
* Porta Harris (6-3 SG, Prosser H.S.) - ?   
* Vince Kmiec (6-4 SG, Sandburg H.S.) - ?   
* Adam LeTourneau (6-4 G, Batavia H.S.) - 6.9 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.3 apg
* Sam Maple (6-2 PG, Lincoln-Way Central H.S.) - 8 ppg, 5 agp  
* Eric Miller (6-0 SG, Willowbrook H.S.) - 15.8 ppg   
* Kyle Pembrook (6-2 SG, Neuqua Valley H.S.) - 9.7 ppg, 3.4 rpg   
* Brock Pezanoski (6-3 SF, LaSalle-Peru H.S.) - 11.2 ppg, 7.4 rpg
* Charlie Rosenberg (6-6 F, Fremd H.S.) - 8.1 ppg   
* Pat Rourke (6-3 PG, Dekalb H.S.) - 12 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 6.5 apg   
* Tyler Smeltzly (5-10 PG, Riverdale H.S.) - 13.1 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 4.1 apg 

Its strange sometimes to see how numbers translate from one level to the next.  From a 9.2 ppg / 4.5 rpg average in high school, Landon Gamble blossomed into a model of consistency during his four years as a Cardinal:

14.1 ppg / 5.2 rpg as a freshman
13.7 ppg / 5.4 rpg as a sophomore
14.5 ppg / 5.8 rpg as a junior, and
15.5 ppg / 5.2 rpg as a senior (while facing an extraordinary number of double- and triple teams)

[havej]

AndOne - respectfully, I think Hill is a definite 2nd teamer.  In addition to his scoring (I believe 8th in the league), he shoots it at a high rate, pressures the ball 3/4 court and gets Augie into their offense.  He plays major minutes which is a testament to his importance to the 3rd place team in the league.  All of the stat guys would probably love to see his assist numbers increase, but he, unfortunately, doesn't get the "ball reversal" assists that other pgs get because there aren't many knockdown shooters on his squad.   Guys like Logan and Overstreet are playing with superior perimeter scorers compared to the current Augie roster and are often benefitting by just swinging the ball.

[AndOne]

all conference team posted.

http://www.cciw.org/sports/2014/2/25/MBB_0225143212.aspx?id=881&

Both made the second team, but easy to put stats in and say one player is "better" than another.  There is more to it than than.  One stat not listed is that Kmiec played 36 mins a game on a 7-7 team, while Overstreet played only 25 min per game on a 12-2 that no one averaged more than 28 minutes a game.

Valid point--the better statistical measuring stick for the non-percentage stats is per 40 minutes.  Raw numbers are basically useless when you have 892 minutes (Kmiec) vs. 558 (Overstreet).  334 minutes is a lot of time to amass more points, rebounds, and steals (but apparently not assists).

Well then, tell Ron Rose to play Overstreet more minutes. 
Are you saying Kmiec isn't a gret player because he played big minutes? 
Be happy IWU won conference, will probably win the conference tourney, may well be ranked #1 in the region, and will prob go very far in the national tourney. 

[AndOne]

AndOne - respectfully, I think Hill is a definite 2nd teamer.  In addition to his scoring (I believe 8th in the league), he shoots it at a high rate, pressures the ball 3/4 court and gets Augie into their offense.  He plays major minutes which is a testament to his importance to the 3rd place team in the league.  All of the stat guys would probably love to see his assist numbers increase, but he, unfortunately, doesn't get the "ball reversal" assists that other pgs get because there aren't many knockdown shooters on his squad.   Guys like Logan and Overstreet are playing with superior perimeter scorers compared to the current Augie roster and are often benefitting by just swinging the ball.

Thank you havej.
I'm not as familiar with Hill as you no doubt are.
I do think he is definitely an all-conference caliber player, and I can see an argument in favor of him being 2nd team.
Maybe my placement is just a matter of personal preference. You make a valid point.

[ecreddevils]

all conference team posted.

http://www.cciw.org/sports/2014/2/25/MBB_0225143212.aspx?id=881&

Both made the second team, but easy to put stats in and say one player is "better" than another.  There is more to it than than.  One stat not listed is that Kmiec played 36 mins a game on a 7-7 team, while Overstreet played only 25 min per game on a 12-2 that no one averaged more than 28 minutes a game.

Valid point--the better statistical measuring stick for the non-percentage stats is per 40 minutes.  Raw numbers are basically useless when you have 892 minutes (Kmiec) vs. 558 (Overstreet).  334 minutes is a lot of time to amass more points, rebounds, and steals (but apparently not assists).

Well then, tell Ron Rose to play Overstreet more minutes. 
Are you saying Kmiec isn't a gret player because he played big minutes? 
Be happy IWU won conference, will probably win the conference tourney, may well be ranked #1 in the region, and will prob go very far in the national tourney. 

No, I have no horse in this race, I'm just saying it's tough to use raw numbers to make your case for who is better, which is what you did in your post.  Assists, scoring, rebounding, and steals are all better measured by per-40 minutes, not by raw seasonal or even per game numbers.

[AndOne]

One other thought.  This jumped out at me when Titan Q recently resurrected the list of incoming recruits for the 2010-11 season:

Unofficial list of CCIW recruits (6/24/10)...

North Central

* Landon Gamble (6-5 F/C, Lockport Township H.S.) - 9.2 ppg, 4.5 rpg 

Its strange sometimes to see how numbers translate from one level to the next.  From a 9.2 ppg / 4.5 rpg average in high school, Landon Gamble blossomed into a model of consistency during his four years as a Cardinal:

14.1 ppg / 5.2 rpg as a freshman
13.7 ppg / 5.4 rpg as a sophomore
14.5 ppg / 5.8 rpg as a junior, and
15.5 ppg / 5.2 rpg as a senior (while facing an extraordinary number of double- and triple teams)

Landon was probably only the 3rd best player on his high school team. The NCC staff, primarily assistant coach Todd Kelly, saw his potential.
Landon had less help and faced more opposition this year than ever.
To cap his remarkable career, Landon scored his all-time high of 33 points in his final college game. He ended up with 1,616, 4th in NCC history.

[AndOne]

In the FWIW category relative to this year's CCIW all-conference team, neither Mr. Davis, Mr. Ziemnik, Mr. Kelly, Mr. Gamble, nor Mr. Peters was a unanimous selection. 

Evidently, at least one head coach thought each of the above gentlemen was a 2nd teamer at best.          

[GoPerry]

I only saw Overstreet twice in person this year, at NCC and just this past Sat against the Thunder.  In my mind, he is every bit deserving of 1st team as any of the 5 who did get the nod.  Perhaps his stats aren't quite as impressive as others, but let's face it, they didn't have to be because he played on such a solid team with many contributors.  Kmiec on the other hand was a senior called on to do more for a team that lost a lot of talent last year.  Thus the difference in minutes, and as already mentioned, stats.

This past Saturday it seemed that anytime his team needed a basket, DO was able to get into the lane and get a hoop or a foul.  Teuscher, DeMoss really could not guard him one on one and they are pretty decent defenders.  As a guy wearing Orange, I felt that he was the guy that hurt us the most- even amidst several matchup problems WC had.

Having said all that, I've always thought very highly of Vince Kmiec these 2 seasons, solid defender and seldom makes a bad decision.  That late catch/shoot trey he hit against the Thunder at Merner was no surprise to me.   But I think Overstreet is more overall talented and if asked to do more, has another gear.    1st teamer last year, 2nd team this year(replaced by Kelly I presume), and prob 1st again next yr with MOP favorite status.  My opinion.

Very much appreciate the board and the enthusiasm.

[carthage guy]

 
2 losses for the Red Men that will drive Bosko crazy are the @ elmhurst and Aug home gme...   Carthage played poorly in both.  Either win would have put them in the 3 seed and probably put them in the NCAAs based on Qs projection.

I just dont see them stopping IWU at the Shirk.  90-80 is likely and then pray for no upsets.  I do think Carthage would be a toughs out in tournament.  Maybe Bosko has something up his sleeve for friday, although his record at the Shirk is like most other coaches

[unanimous22]

Congratulations to IWU's Jordan Nelson, the CCIW player of the week:

http://www.cciw.org/news/2014/2/24/MBB_0224141148.aspx

Great job, Jordan!  While Jordan and the Titans will be battling in the conference semis on Friday night, the high school we both attended (and a few other Titans) will also be in a huge battle.  The #3 3A Lincoln Railsplitters host the #1 3A Lions of Springfield Lanphier.  While many will consider this to not be related to the CCIW, I'm guessing there could be a CCIW caliber player on either roster.  I'm sure that Coach Nadelhoffer and Coach Rose would be interested in some players on either squad, as would the rest of the CCIW coaching contingent.  Lanphier won the first meeting in Springfield, with a rebound bucket at the buzzer in regulation to send it to overtime.
Titan Hammer, and a few ball pein hammers, will be at The Shirk on Friday and Saturday to see some quality basketball.  Praying for the safety of all players as they give it their best.  Ever a chance we'll see two CCIW teams battling for the NCAA D 3 Title?

Fighting Brian Cooks vs. Fighting Andre Iguodalas

[Titan Q]

Congratulations to all of the All-CCIW honorees.  It's a great league and really hard to land one of those 15 spots.

From an IWU perspective, Victor Davis, Andrew Ziemnik, and Dylan Overstreet are certainly the 3 guys that make the Titans tick. This nucleus has just been outstanding the last 2 seasons, leading the Titans to a 25-3 CCIW record.

I'm especially proud of Victor Davis.  He opened a lot of eyes as a starter on IWU's Final 4 team as a sophomore.  Last year, it was a little bit of a roller coaster for Vic as he adjusted to getting doubled regularly and being a huge focus of opposing defenses.  By all accounts, he worked his tail off in the off-season.  The weight room work is obvious - he looks like an NFL tight end.  But Davis went from being a 39% FG shooter and 71% FT to 52% and 84% respectively this year.  That doesn't happen without hours and hours of hard work.  It's great to see someone get rewarded for focus, determination, and hard work.

IWU has a great point guard and one of the best starting forward combos in Division III.  It's nice to see these 3 honored as All-CCIW players.

[Titan Q]

Congratulations to Ron Rose on his second consecutive CCIW Coach of the Year honor.  He is a tremendous recruiter, a great teacher, and most importantly, a great team/chemistry builder.  When you watch a Ron Rose-coached team play, you know you'll see a team that plays very hard for 40 minutes, and incredibly unselfishly.

It's nice to see great things happen to such a genuinely good person.  As an alum, I am very proud that Ron Rose is the head coach of the Titans and appreciative for everything he has done for the program.

[AndOne]

ON OFFICIATING

Over the course of the just completed CCIW regular season, quite a number of posters representing several of the teams have both commented on, and questioned the level of officiating within the conference this season. My personal opinion is that it definitely needs improvement. Without blowing my own horn, and just basing my feelings on the comments I've read, I'd say the majority of posters agree.

While nothing can be done about calls that have already been made, I think its important to do all that is possible to insure that the highest possible number of calls are made equitably and correctly. With that objective in mind, here is a rather interesting set of events that occurred in conjunction with the Wheaton-IWU game this past Saturday. PLEASE BE ASSURED THAT IN RELATING THIS INFO, I"M MAKING ABSOLUTELY NO JUDGEMENT WITH REGARD TO ANY OF THE CALLS MADE IN THE GAME. I had no horse in the race, and am just relating an interesting set of circumstances.

It seems that one of the spectators at the Wheaton/IWU women's game that preceded the men's game was one Jim O'Boye. A member of the IWU women's team is Kaitlyn O'Boye who I've come to understand is Mr. O'Boye's daughter. Its understandable that a father would want to watch his daughter's team play. Its also perfectly understandable that not only the same father, but any father would have an affinity for his child's school. However, in the men's Wheaton/IWU game which followed shortly after the completion of women's game, it seems that one of the referees was Jim O'Boye. The same Jim O'Boye that sat with fellow IWU fans in the opening game of the night, the same Jim O'Boye whose daughter is a member of the IWU women's game, and the same Jim O'boye that celebrated IWU's win after the night's first game.

I don't know which of the refs who worked the game was Mr. O'Boye. Furthermore, since I really didn't have a horse in the race and was just there as an interested fan, I didn't pay close enough attention to voice an opinion as to whether any of the refs seemed to make many more calls that favored one team over the other. However, it does seem inappropriate at best that the CCIW would assign a ref who has a daughter on the IWU women's team to work a IWU men's game.   
What does everyone else think?

[sac]

I believe the MIAA has a ref whose brother plays on a league teams varsity squad, to my knowledge he did not ref any of his brothers games but did ref a couple of his brothers rivals games.  Refs can actually be quite professional when you aren't looking for a reason to hate them. 

[bopol]

A few thoughts:

1) Congratulations to the All-CCIW team.  As a Carthage fan, let me say that I think it was dead-on.  Malcom Kelly has been a great competitor for the last five years and he has shown the ability to dominate a game.  I think he's made all the Carthage guards better through his leadership and desire to win.  Thank you Malcom for a great time.  And Marlon Senior.  Wow.  What a great year.  You wonder how Wash U lost to Carthage.  It was all Marlon. An inside offensive presence that I didn't think we'd have this year; clutch free throws done the stretch in so many games - wish he wasn't a senior, but what can you do?  Best of luck guys.

2) I think Overstreet over Ziemick, but not in a bad way.  Really good point guards mean so much at this level and Overstreet does the job.

3) TitanQ, you have Carthage further up the Pool C chain than I do and I hope you are right, but I am worried that Wheaton (with 9 losses) doesn't come off the table fast enough and jams up Carthage for too long.  This isn't an indictment of Wheaton who definitely deserves a Pool C  bid, but more doubts on what the committee will do.

4) Officiating.  It always has been inconsistent at this level and I think many officials try hard, but I think the new rules made what was already inconsistent officiating seem much more inconsistent this year.  The Carthage-Dubuque game was an officiating trainwreck.  The thing that bugged me was often times the officials seem to 'let them play' only to start calling the game more in line with the new rules after letting everyone slug it out for a half.  The other thing that bugged me was calling handchecks on the floor after the ballhandler was mostly past the defender and had taken an advantage.  I think this needs to be addressed in a way that makes sense (maybe a rating by the coaches or clinics on how to handle new rules better), but I'm not sure what will work best.