MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

In a lot of places, especially on the east coast, conferences pay an assigner to do the job of assigning refs. In the situation out here that I describe, each conference actually paid different assigners so you tended to see the same officials in the same gyms in the conferences each night. I am usually in four different gyms within 30 or so minutes from my house featuring three different conferences and there was little or no cross-over. The assigners and refs became buddy-buddy and assignments were to benefit the refs in a lot of cases. This year, all of the conferences (about five) went to just one assigner and the buddy-buddy system was gone. I see a ton of crossover and a ton of refs I have never seen since they had been isolated to just one place for years. It has created far better officiating as a result.

But back to the point, the conferences hire a person who is part of the officiating system to assign the officials for each game.

[AndOne]

And One, your dislike for IWU is never ending.
Why would any IWU official be reprimanded. Why would coach Rose be in any trouble? Neither Coach Rose or anybody from IWU, has anything to do with assigning referees. I'll bet the CCIW  did know that O'Boye had a child playing in the CCIW, and that it was in a different sport than the one he worked in.
What would you like Coach Rose to do, drop out of the CCIW tourney, and let an under archiving NCC team play in it. After all they did get first place of the bottom four teams.
Last year you jumped all over IWU fans. This year you jumped all over an IWU player for being happy when he makes a basket. Now you want Coach Rose reprimanded for allowing a man to work a game, that he had nothing to do with hiring.
And if your going to keep talking about him, get his name correct, it's , O'Boye, with a B. Not O'Doye with a D.. It's bad enough you questioning him and IWU and Coach Rose, you can at least get his name right.

More than once I made it a point to emphasize IWU won the game because they were the better team, and the win was not the result of favoritism by the ref. I even "bolded" it for emphasis. I have commented several times recently about both IWU's talent and depth. Sound like a dislike for IWU?

Yes, IWU could be reprimanded if they pertinent information about a potential conflict of interest that they did not reveal. The specific sport involved is men's basketball. The primary responsibility is that of the AD. However, in his absence from the actual involved game site, Ron Rose is an agent of IWU and would seem to be the highest authority present. There is no way he didn't know of the relationship. The primary onus is on the CCIW. Then IWU.
It was reported at the coaches meeting that O'Boye might be suspended or dismissed if he had not told the conference about his daughter, and also that someone from IWU, including Rose, might be reprimanded (NOT suspended) in some way if they had knowledge of a potential conflict of interest that they did not report. I never said Rose should receive a reprimand, only that, based on what I heard, he possibly could.   

As far as Nelson---lets get it right. I did not jump on him for being happy for making baskets. I'd be happy too. I jumped on him for acting like a hyena after he made the baskets and for disrespecting Wheaton by running down the court saluting after the 1st basket, shaking 3 fingers after the 2nd basket, and shaking 3 fingers on both hands after the 3rd one. There are many other ways to display being happy without disrespecting the opposition. And, beyond that, he disrespected IWU and himself by his actions. And, if you think I was alone in this assessment, talk to some of the Wheaton fans. Better yet, listen to the game tape where the announcer points out Nelson's actions "I don't know what thats about," and later, "we could do without all the histrionics."

[AndOne]

In a lot of places, especially on the east coast, conferences pay an assigner to do the job of assigning refs. In the situation out here that I describe, each conference actually paid different assigners so you tended to see the same officials in the same gyms in the conferences each night. I am usually in four different gyms within 30 or so minutes from my house featuring three different conferences and there was little or no cross-over. The assigners and refs became buddy-buddy and assignments were to benefit the refs in a lot of cases. This year, all of the conferences (about five) went to just one assigner and the buddy-buddy system was gone. I see a ton of crossover and a ton of refs I have never seen since they had been isolated to just one place for years. It has created far better officiating as a result.

But back to the point, the conferences hire a person who is part of the officiating system to assign the officials for each game.

I'm still not sure if the guy who assigns CCIW refs would be considered "outside" the conference. If I had to guess, I'd say he is not.

CCIW teams don't see the same refs game after game. They all get the same ref a few times a season, but not in a majority of their games. I know some, maybe several, CCIW refs also work in other leagues. O'Boye, for instance, worked the IWU game on 1/4 vs Elmhurst, and the 2/22 game vs Wheaton. Not sure if he worked any other IWU games. The frequency of any team seeing the same ref is probably pretty comparable. 

[bopol]

2nd round or 2nd weekend?!

IWU will have the advantage in the second weekend because Wash U's women's program will have priority over Wash U men for hosting in the second weekend (thus the men have priority this year in the first weekend).

2nd weekend.  My bad.  I'll edit.

Didn't know about the 2nd weekend priorities - hmmmmm.

[Titan Q]

It was reported at the coaches meeting that O'Boye might be suspended or dismissed if he had not told the conference about his daughter, and also that someone from IWU, including Rose, might be reprimanded (NOT suspended) in some way if they had knowledge of a potential conflict of interest that they did not report. I never said Rose should receive a reprimand, only that, based on what I heard, he possibly could. 

The part above about Ron Rose - that someone said he "might be reprimanded" over this Jim O'Boye thing - is just 100% false.  It's really, really unfair to Rose that you continue to say this stuff, Mark.

I suggest we move on and talk about basketball again?

[Titan Q]

Basketball topic - did Andrew Ziemnik make a bad basketball decision 4 years ago as reported by AndOne?

Several of this year's freshman at NCC will have a chance to play NOW. Few, if any of the IWU freshmen will have that opportunity. Yes, they will great a great education which is always the primary reason to go to school, but several have made a poor basketball decision. You mentioned Andrew Ziemnik specifically. I think Andrew knows that he could have come to NCC and have a legitimate shot at either starting or being a primary sub this year on top of getting a great education. In choosing Wesleyan, he made a great academic decision. Not so much as far as a basketball decision.

[toooldtohoop]

I think can all agree on the fact that we will likely not be seeing Mr. O'Boye in stripes this weekend at the Shirk Center for Educational Wellness Thinking and All Things Athletic Fitness Related at Illinois Wesleyan University in Bloomington, Illinois, United States. 

If it was fair to have O'Boye call the game last Saturday when only IWU (and someone somewhere within the conference offices) knew of his daughter, then why would it be a problem now that it is more broadly known?

If all is legit and this is a non-issue, then wouldn't it be unfair to prohibit O'Boye  from working more IWU games?  Should he be restricted  just because NOW it is a conflict?

[bopol]

Basketball topic - did Andrew Ziemnik make a bad basketball decision 4 years ago as reported by AndOne?

Several of this year's freshman at NCC will have a chance to play NOW. Few, if any of the IWU freshmen will have that opportunity. Yes, they will great a great education which is always the primary reason to go to school, but several have made a poor basketball decision. You mentioned Andrew Ziemnik specifically. I think Andrew knows that he could have come to NCC and have a legitimate shot at either starting or being a primary sub this year on top of getting a great education. In choosing Wesleyan, he made a great academic decision. Not so much as far as a basketball decision.

Possibly - NCC could have used him last year and probably would have won the NCAA championship.

But the best choice would have been Carthage.

[havej]

AndOne - regarding Q's question about Ziemnik and a poor basketball decision, do you guys get the ring last year if he's wearing a Cardinal uniform?

[havej]

bopol - not to seem like a moron but I was typing my Ziemnik question at the same time you were typing your comment.

[thunder38]

Yes the CCIW uses an assigner for the officials and from everything I can gather, the assigner was in the dark about the O'Boye-IWU connection. Whether it is deemed worthy of discussion or not, this is a big deal. Not because it had any outcome on last Saturday's game, because it didn't, but because it's a huge oversight and lapse in judgment on behalf of Mr. O'Boye, Illinois Wesleyan and the CCIW office. Remove whatever-tinted glass you happen to be wearing and realize that there is a lot of weightiness to this:

Disclaimer: This is not in the least an indictment of Illinois Wesleyan or of Mr. O'Boye. I'm sure I will be accused of both at some point.

- Whether or not Mr. O'Boye failed to report the situation regarding his daughter to the conference office, Illinois Wesleyan should have made the CCIW office aware of the situation after they had Mr. O'Boye as an official at Elmhurst.

- How is it fair to Mr. O'Boye or his daughter for him to have to go from being a fan of the first game to an impartial participant of the second game on a night like Saturday night? If a few of Mr. O'Boye's calls happen to go Wheaton's way while the game is unfolding, all of a sudden Ms. O'Boye's father is the one who helped Wheaton earn a conference title and she has to face that angle on bus ride home to Bloomington. That's an extremely unfair burden for her to have to bear.

- It becomes extremely hard to say that women's basketball is not the same sport as men's basketball and claim that Mr. O'Boye is not officiating the same sport as his daughter plays when the above is considered as well as the fact that they played the same game, on the same floor, on the same night.

- Some of this was easily swept under the rug on Saturday night because Ms. O'Boye was not listed in the program. She was a late write-in to the score book and did not appear in the game, thus the relation was brought to light by AndOne's sources.

- Undoubtedly Mr. O'Boye has financially supported the Titan Athletic Department at some point this year whether it be to support a possible fundraising cause of his daughter's or to be able to have his Titan gear on while he supports his daughter. If that is the case, you now don't just have the father of a Titan doing the game, you now have an Illinois Wesleyan booster officiating the game.

- Keep in mind that a lot of this conversation is being generated because of the weight that was placed on Saturday night's game and the implications at hand. I'd have found as equally out of line if it was an early January matchup between Illinois Wesleyan and North Park.

It just looks bad for everyone involved. With the number of officials available, there's no way that these kind of things should be happening, especially in a game with the magnitude of Saturday night's.

[D-3 watcher]

And One says---
Seem to be
Allegedly
May have occurred, and know the latest--
Possibly could

While you are knocking Jordan Nelson for his actions after a play, you seem to have ignored how your own Jack Burchett acts after one of his big plays. He made a great play and he's happy. No problem, if you as a player is offended, don't allow it anymore. If your a fan, just get on a chat line and cry about it.
These kids (men) work long and hard at getting better at what they do. Let them be happy.

It's not the NFL---No Fun League

[Kovo]

Yes the CCIW uses an assigner for the officials and from everything I can gather, the assigner was in the dark about the O'Boye-IWU connection. Whether it is deemed worthy of discussion or not, this is a big deal. Not because it had any outcome on last Saturday's game, because it didn't, but because it's a huge oversight and lapse in judgment on behalf of Mr. O'Boye, Illinois Wesleyan and the CCIW office. Remove whatever-tinted glass you happen to be wearing and realize that there is a lot of weightiness to this:

Disclaimer: This is not in the least an indictment of Illinois Wesleyan or of Mr. O'Boye. I'm sure I will be accused of both at some point.

- Whether or not Mr. O'Boye failed to report the situation regarding his daughter to the conference office, Illinois Wesleyan should have made the CCIW office aware of the situation after they had Mr. O'Boye as an official at Elmhurst.

- How is it fair to Mr. O'Boye or his daughter for him to have to go from being a fan of the first game to an impartial participant of the second game on a night like Saturday night? If a few of Mr. O'Boye's calls happen to go Wheaton's way while the game is unfolding, all of a sudden Ms. O'Boye's father is the one who helped Wheaton earn a conference title and she has to face that angle on bus ride home to Bloomington. That's an extremely unfair burden for her to have to bear.

- It becomes extremely hard to say that women's basketball is not the same sport as men's basketball and claim that Mr. O'Boye is not officiating the same sport as his daughter plays when the above is considered as well as the fact that they played the same game, on the same floor, on the same night.

- Some of this was easily swept under the rug on Saturday night because Ms. O'Boye was not listed in the program. She was a late write-in to the score book and did not appear in the game, thus the relation was brought to light by AndOne's sources.

- Undoubtedly Mr. O'Boye has financially supported the Titan Athletic Department at some point this year whether it be to support a possible fundraising cause of his daughter's or to be able to have his Titan gear on while he supports his daughter. If that is the case, you now don't just have the father of a Titan doing the game, you now have an Illinois Wesleyan booster officiating the game.

- Keep in mind that a lot of this conversation is being generated because of the weight that was placed on Saturday night's game and the implications at hand. I'd have found as equally out of line if it was an early January matchup between Illinois Wesleyan and North Park.

It just looks bad for everyone involved. With the number of officials available, there's no way that these kind of things should be happening, especially in a game with the magnitude of Saturday night's.

To be fair and even things up-----why doesn't the CCIW let one of the parents of a Wheaton player officiate the championship game should IWU and Wheaton both advance?  I'm sure the IWU people won't care since they seem to think the whole incident is no big deal.

I too have no dog in this fight but seriously..............it doesn't look good (or fair).

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yes the CCIW uses an assigner for the officials and from everything I can gather, the assigner was in the dark about the O'Boye-IWU connection. Whether it is deemed worthy of discussion or not, this is a big deal. Not because it had any outcome on last Saturday's game, because it didn't, but because it's a huge oversight and lapse in judgment on behalf of Mr. O'Boye, Illinois Wesleyan and the CCIW office. Remove whatever-tinted glass you happen to be wearing and realize that there is a lot of weightiness to this:

Disclaimer: This is not in the least an indictment of Illinois Wesleyan or of Mr. O'Boye. I'm sure I will be accused of both at some point.

- Whether or not Mr. O'Boye failed to report the situation regarding his daughter to the conference office, Illinois Wesleyan should have made the CCIW office aware of the situation after they had Mr. O'Boye as an official at Elmhurst.

- How is it fair to Mr. O'Boye or his daughter for him to have to go from being a fan of the first game to an impartial participant of the second game on a night like Saturday night? If a few of Mr. O'Boye's calls happen to go Wheaton's way while the game is unfolding, all of a sudden Ms. O'Boye's father is the one who helped Wheaton earn a conference title and she has to face that angle on bus ride home to Bloomington. That's an extremely unfair burden for her to have to bear.

- It becomes extremely hard to say that women's basketball is not the same sport as men's basketball and claim that Mr. O'Boye is not officiating the same sport as his daughter plays when the above is considered as well as the fact that they played the same game, on the same floor, on the same night.

- Some of this was easily swept under the rug on Saturday night because Ms. O'Boye was not listed in the program. She was a late write-in to the score book and did not appear in the game, thus the relation was brought to light by AndOne's sources.

- Undoubtedly Mr. O'Boye has financially supported the Titan Athletic Department at some point this year whether it be to support a possible fundraising cause of his daughter's or to be able to have his Titan gear on while he supports his daughter. If that is the case, you now don't just have the father of a Titan doing the game, you now have an Illinois Wesleyan booster officiating the game.

- Keep in mind that a lot of this conversation is being generated because of the weight that was placed on Saturday night's game and the implications at hand. I'd have found as equally out of line if it was an early January matchup between Illinois Wesleyan and North Park.

It just looks bad for everyone involved. With the number of officials available, there's no way that these kind of things should be happening, especially in a game with the magnitude of Saturday night's.

To be fair and even things up-----why doesn't the CCIW let one of the parents of a Wheaton player officiate the championship game should IWU and Wheaton both advance?  I'm sure the IWU people won't care since they seem to think the whole incident is no big deal.

I too have no dog in this fight but seriously..............it doesn't look good (or fair).

I am green thru-and-thru, but totally agree it has the appearance of a conflict of interest.  It should not have happened.  But assuming it is true that O'Boye notified the league office and that IWU was aware of said notification, I do not agree that either O'Boye or Coach Rose are at all to blame.  Whoever assigned O'Boye to ref that game is the one to blame.

[Kovo]

Yes the CCIW uses an assigner for the officials and from everything I can gather, the assigner was in the dark about the O'Boye-IWU connection. Whether it is deemed worthy of discussion or not, this is a big deal. Not because it had any outcome on last Saturday's game, because it didn't, but because it's a huge oversight and lapse in judgment on behalf of Mr. O'Boye, Illinois Wesleyan and the CCIW office. Remove whatever-tinted glass you happen to be wearing and realize that there is a lot of weightiness to this:

Disclaimer: This is not in the least an indictment of Illinois Wesleyan or of Mr. O'Boye. I'm sure I will be accused of both at some point.

- Whether or not Mr. O'Boye failed to report the situation regarding his daughter to the conference office, Illinois Wesleyan should have made the CCIW office aware of the situation after they had Mr. O'Boye as an official at Elmhurst.

- How is it fair to Mr. O'Boye or his daughter for him to have to go from being a fan of the first game to an impartial participant of the second game on a night like Saturday night? If a few of Mr. O'Boye's calls happen to go Wheaton's way while the game is unfolding, all of a sudden Ms. O'Boye's father is the one who helped Wheaton earn a conference title and she has to face that angle on bus ride home to Bloomington. That's an extremely unfair burden for her to have to bear.

- It becomes extremely hard to say that women's basketball is not the same sport as men's basketball and claim that Mr. O'Boye is not officiating the same sport as his daughter plays when the above is considered as well as the fact that they played the same game, on the same floor, on the same night.

- Some of this was easily swept under the rug on Saturday night because Ms. O'Boye was not listed in the program. She was a late write-in to the score book and did not appear in the game, thus the relation was brought to light by AndOne's sources.

- Undoubtedly Mr. O'Boye has financially supported the Titan Athletic Department at some point this year whether it be to support a possible fundraising cause of his daughter's or to be able to have his Titan gear on while he supports his daughter. If that is the case, you now don't just have the father of a Titan doing the game, you now have an Illinois Wesleyan booster officiating the game.

- Keep in mind that a lot of this conversation is being generated because of the weight that was placed on Saturday night's game and the implications at hand. I'd have found as equally out of line if it was an early January matchup between Illinois Wesleyan and North Park.

It just looks bad for everyone involved. With the number of officials available, there's no way that these kind of things should be happening, especially in a game with the magnitude of Saturday night's.

To be fair and even things up-----why doesn't the CCIW let one of the parents of a Wheaton player officiate the championship game should IWU and Wheaton both advance?  I'm sure the IWU people won't care since they seem to think the whole incident is no big deal.

I too have no dog in this fight but seriously..............it doesn't look good (or fair).

I am green thru-and-thru, but totally agree it has the appearance of a conflict of interest.  It should not have happened.  But assuming it is true that O'Boye notified the league office and that IWU was aware of said notification, I do not agree that either O'Boye or Coach Rose are at all to blame.  Whoever assigned O'Boye to ref that game is the one to blame.

The part that bothers me is that incident looks so bad that I felt compelled to write a post supporting the Crusaders.  I feel so dirty.  I'm going to sign off and take a shower now.