MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

I'm curious do you guys think that every bad call made in the game was made against IWU and all of the calls made against the WARHAWKS were solid, on the money calls?  My experience is that bad calls generally go both ways but I didn't see the game so I don't really know.

My contention was never about the calls being good or bad, but rather just the overall manner or style of how the game was called. Any minor amount of contact was an automatic whistle. I thought it was called unusually tight. I know Victor Davis was called for 4 charging fouls alone and the team had another 2 or 3 called. I'm not saying that none of them were legit charging calls, but in most games I've seen, they were at most a no call. I don't think I can recall a game where some contact on the blocks resulted in so many charging calls. By letter of the law, they may all be charges. By practice, though, I'm not used to seeing a game called that way. As a result, what hurt, is that the style of officiating made us rely entirely too much on our outside shooting, where we clearly failed miserably. We became too much of a one dimensional team which isn't going to cut it against the likes of UWW.

IWU on Friday:  57 FG attempts, which was slightly above their season average.  23 3-pointers attempted which is exactly their season average.  So those #s don't much support that the Titans played any different sort of game than normal.

Yes, I understand on the season, we average quite a few 3 pt attempts. However, average implies there are games where we shoot less, like maybe a game when 3 pt shots aren't falling?

Whether any of us want to admit it, just about all of us would honestly have to say that experience shows that bad calls generally even out throughout the course of a game and/or season. Its the particular game and instance(s) within that game that are especially frustrating and that evoke a special ire.

If a game is being called tightly, shouldn't a good team make adjustments? If the possibility of a block/charge call seems to be resulting in a preponderance of charging calls, shouldn't the coach tell his team to pull up for a mid-range jumper, or to shot fake a defender to get him off balance, and then go around him rather than either just lowering a shoulder or using an arm bar and charging ahead on the dribble? It seems Wesleyan has the talent to do these things. The question is were adjustments made by the coaching staff? If so, was the adjusted strategy disregarded?

Lastly, when the 3 pointers weren't falling, perhaps another mode of attack would have produced a better result than to just routinely continue something that obviously wasn't working. For example, Division 1 transfer Jordan Nelson took six shots from the field during the game. ALL of the six were from beyond the arc, but not one was successful.  Perhaps putting the ball on the floor, getting into the defender, and likely drawing a foul and getting to the line would have been a wiser choice. Especially when you consider Nelson led the league in FT shooting, and was 3 of 4 in the UWW game. Could this have been something worth trying?

[AndOne]

One last comment. The Mayberger charge call certainly did not change the outcome, but it was right in front of me and was a pathetically bad call. On the flip side, IWU fans can be very thankful that the ref called the Webster post player for an illegal screen with 3.6 seconds left to seal the win for IWU, a call that was very quesionable. You win some and lose some..

Lots of questions have arisen concerning the officials judgement in the UWW-IWU game.
I know veterancciwfan is a great IWU fan and supporter, and an insightful analyst. From his own observation, it appears there is a chance that IWU was perhaps a bit lucky not to have been the victim of a 1st round playoff exit given the fact that they were evidently the benefactor (bad calls usually even out?) of a "questionable" call in the closing seconds of the Webster game. So, maybe there was reason to be thankful for the advancement to the semi-final contest. And, having gotten there, again as IWU superfan Veterancciwfan attests, "5 of 23 3s is not going to win a big game against a good team. And going 18/27 at the line won't either"

[AndOne]

UW-Whitewater 71
Illinois Wesleyan 63

Definitely a tough game for the Titans last night in the national semifinal.  A few thoughts...

* IWU really had a hard time dealing with UWW star KJ Evans.  Not only was it difficult for the Titans to keep the 6-3 junior from getting into the lane off the dribble, but he hit a number of extremely difficult shots once he got into the lane.

* The Titans did not shoot the ball well.  IWU was a very uncharacteristic 5-23 from beyond the arc, and could not hit the big 3 needed in the final minutes to pull off the comeback - Pat Sodemann, Bryce Dolan, and Jordan Nelson all had great looks to cut the lead the single digits, but those did not fall.

* IWU, overall, was just never really in sync in the game.  The Titans made some uncharacteristically bad decisions throughout the course of the game, and never got in their normal flow.  The Warhawks certainly had a lot to do with that, but IWU just was not at its best last night.

* UW-Whitewater is a great team.  KJ Evans, who it seems should be on a Division I roster somewhere, just distorts the game with his athleticism and ability to score, and then the Warhawks have a number a great dangerous weapons around him.

Very tough loss, but a great season for the Titans. 

A great season for the Titans indeed!
Congrats to them for sure.
No need for any head hanging, or anything other than being very proud of a tremendous achievement.

[AndOne]

A trend that hopefully won't continue for CCIW teams making the Final Four.............

Last season North Central made the Final Four, only to drop their semi-final game to the eventual national champion by 8 points. This year, IWU likewise made the FF, only to also lose their semi-final game to the eventual national champ, also by the same 8 point deficit. Seems like the number 8 has something against the CCIW. 

[Greek Tragedy]

A bad combination when KJ Evans has his best game as a Warhawk and Jordan Nelson has his worst game as a Titan on the same night!

He had his best scoring game. I can recall a few games when he solid double-doubles but only scored in the 20s.

Actually, just taking a quick look at tournament...

vs. Northwestern:  11 pts, 10 rebounds in 24 minutes
vs. Augustana: 25 pts, 12 reb, 3 assists
vs. Texas-Dallas: 22 pts, 3 rebs on 10-13 shooting
vs. Emory: 27 pts, 11 rebs
vs. IWU: 30 pts, 5 rebs, 2 assists, 2 steals
vs. Williams: 22 pts, 7 rebs.

Off the top of my head, I think only Mayer could rival those numbers. Not bad for a guy 6'3"

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'm curious do you guys think that every bad call made in the game was made against IWU and all of the calls made against the WARHAWKS were solid, on the money calls?  My experience is that bad calls generally go both ways but I didn't see the game so I don't really know.

No, I don't think all the bad calls favored the Warhawks.  In the first half, bad calls certainly went both ways, as the zebras called a horribly overly tight game (there were more fouls called in the first half than in the entire Williams/Amherst game; putting a number of players on both teams in foul danger).  In the second half, I recall two clean blocks (one by each team) which were called fouls - since I was watching as a fan, not a ref, I was watching the ball - the blocks were clean, but whether or not there was a foul by the body I can't say.  But I will stand by my second-half inconsistency on block/charge calls; and those went mostly if not entirely against IWU.

Bad calls do balance out - over time.  I'd agree with the posts that noted that we might have already gone down in round one if not for an iffy call against Webster.  But in a single game, they do not necessarily even out. 

[AppletonRocks]

[veterancciwfan]

Conversation on the home page about the D3 title game being played at the D1 Final 4 site in the future. My comment: Stupid and idiotic. D3 is about the real STUDENT/athlete and ending the season in the middle of March rather than on April Fool's day so the players can get back to concentrating on academics. Salem does a fantastic job hosting the Final 4.  Totally useless trivia: Florida State was playing Georgetown in the the NIT tonight. To show how big the NAIA tournament was until he NCAA figured out that it could make a ton of money on their 64/68 team format, FSU was one of the 32 teams in the 1955 NAIA tournament (as an at large entrant). For the 95% of posters who never witnessed an NAIA tournament, you missed a unique format which basketball crazy fans loved (8 games at one site on Monday through Wednesday to get the field down to 8-the winner had to win 5 games in either 5 or 6 days).

[devildog29]

I'm curious do you guys think that every bad call made in the game was made against IWU and all of the calls made against the WARHAWKS were solid, on the money calls?  My experience is that bad calls generally go both ways but I didn't see the game so I don't really know.

My contention was never about the calls being good or bad, but rather just the overall manner or style of how the game was called. Any minor amount of contact was an automatic whistle. I thought it was called unusually tight. I know Victor Davis was called for 4 charging fouls alone and the team had another 2 or 3 called. I'm not saying that none of them were legit charging calls, but in most games I've seen, they were at most a no call. I don't think I can recall a game where some contact on the blocks resulted in so many charging calls. By letter of the law, they may all be charges. By practice, though, I'm not used to seeing a game called that way. As a result, what hurt, is that the style of officiating made us rely entirely too much on our outside shooting, where we clearly failed miserably. We became too much of a one dimensional team which isn't going to cut it against the likes of UWW.

IWU on Friday:  57 FG attempts, which was slightly above their season average.  23 3-pointers attempted which is exactly their season average.  So those #s don't much support that the Titans played any different sort of game than normal.

Yes, I understand on the season, we average quite a few 3 pt attempts. However, average implies there are games where we shoot less, like maybe a game when 3 pt shots aren't falling?

Whether any of us want to admit it, just about all of us would honestly have to say that experience shows that bad calls generally even out throughout the course of a game and/or season. Its the particular game and instance(s) within that game that are especially frustrating and that evoke a special ire.

If a game is being called tightly, shouldn't a good team make adjustments? If the possibility of a block/charge call seems to be resulting in a preponderance of charging calls, shouldn't the coach tell his team to pull up for a mid-range jumper, or to shot fake a defender to get him off balance, and then go around him rather than either just lowering a shoulder or using an arm bar and charging ahead on the dribble? It seems Wesleyan has the talent to do these things. The question is were adjustments made by the coaching staff? If so, was the adjusted strategy disregarded?

Lastly, when the 3 pointers weren't falling, perhaps another mode of attack would have produced a better result than to just routinely continue something that obviously wasn't working. For example, Division 1 transfer Jordan Nelson took six shots from the field during the game. ALL of the six were from beyond the arc, but not one was successful.  Perhaps putting the ball on the floor, getting into the defender, and likely drawing a foul and getting to the line would have been a wiser choice. Especially when you consider Nelson led the league in FT shooting, and was 3 of 4 in the UWW game. Could this have been something worth trying?

I wouldn't disagree with any of this. Again, I've tried to stress that I wasn't calling the officiating"bad", just unusually tight. Much tighter than any game I remember watching this year.

[D-3 watcher]

Even if no foul would have been called in the final seconds of the IWU-Webster game, they still had to make a shot to win it. That foul didn't decide the game.

[D-3 watcher]

Left Salem before the final game, but on Friday, I sure didn't see a whole lot of local fans at the game.
There was a lot of empty seats.
It has been talked about before, but it's time to move on. I've been to Salem 6 times now, the buzz for the locals is gone.
Yes, they do a great job, both running the event, and treating the teams like champs. The gym was half empty, and IWU travels well. It hurt that UWW had both teams playing in the final four, but not half the gym.
I don't have a place in mind, but I think it could us a new look.
Maybe the local fans thought that since the NCAA didn't charge to get into last years final game, they didn't want to pay this year, can't say I would blame them.

[Greek Tragedy]

Conversation on the home page about the D3 title game being played at the D1 Final 4 site in the future. My comment: Stupid and idiotic. D3 is about the real STUDENT/athlete and ending the season in the middle of March rather than on April Fool's day so the players can get back to concentrating on academics. Salem does a fantastic job hosting the Final 4.  Totally useless trivia: Florida State was playing Georgetown in the the NIT tonight. To show how big the NAIA tournament was until he NCAA figured out that it could make a ton of money on their 64/68 team format, FSU was one of the 32 teams in the 1955 NAIA tournament (as an at large entrant). For the 95% of posters who never witnessed an NAIA tournament, you missed a unique format which basketball crazy fans loved (8 games at one site on Monday through Wednesday to get the field down to 8-the winner had to win 5 games in either 5 or 6 days).

I think every player, coach and fan who participated in last year's Final will disagree with you. I read it was a great and unforgettable experience.

I do remember those NAIA days. When I was a kid, I would travel down with my family in vans or buses for the NAIA tournament in Kansas City at Kemper Arena. My dad was the pep band director for UW-Stevens Point. The 1st year we went with the band, we drove down in two university vans and stayed at a church and used a nearby YWCA for showers!  The year Point lost to Ft. Hayes State in the Final was amazing (we had a bus and stayed in hotels thankfully)!

[AndOne]

Left Salem before the final game, but on Friday, I sure didn't see a whole lot of local fans at the game.
There was a lot of empty seats.
It has been talked about before, but it's time to move on. I've been to Salem 6 times now, the buzz for the locals is gone.
Yes, they do a great job, both running the event, and treating the teams like champs. The gym was half empty, and IWU travels well. It hurt that UWW had both teams playing in the final four, but not half the gym.
I don't have a place in mind, but I think it could us a new look.
Maybe the local fans thought that since the NCAA didn't charge to get into last years final game, they didn't want to pay this year, can't say I would blame them.

It seems as though the NCAA might want to start listening to the fans. Especially one who has been to Salem SIX times. 

Also (taken from Pat Coleman's 3/23 article):

Of course, although the game was fantastic and played in front of 2,681 fans in a building where that looks like a decent number, it pales in comparison to the student-athlete experience and the crowd of more than 6,000 that saw Amherst beat Mary Hardin-Baylor last year. There were dozens of Division III coaches in Salem for the weekend and some are still talking about playing the D-III title game at the Division I championship site should be put into the permanent schedule.

If the NCAA doesn't want to consider fan's opinions, what about those of several NCAA D3 coaches?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Left Salem before the final game, but on Friday, I sure didn't see a whole lot of local fans at the game.
There was a lot of empty seats.
It has been talked about before, but it's time to move on. I've been to Salem 6 times now, the buzz for the locals is gone.
Yes, they do a great job, both running the event, and treating the teams like champs. The gym was half empty, and IWU travels well. It hurt that UWW had both teams playing in the final four, but not half the gym.
I don't have a place in mind, but I think it could us a new look.
Maybe the local fans thought that since the NCAA didn't charge to get into last years final game, they didn't want to pay this year, can't say I would blame them.

Did you stay for the Williams/Amherst game?  They eventually populated the other side of the gym.  (I can't believe how many people came ONLY for one game, when you were paying for two.)

UWW was very well represented, despite the women playing at a much more local place.  They had nearly as many fans as IWU.  (Both were on the left side from the entrance to the Center - it may have felt empty because Williams and Amherst sections were across the court, and only filled quite late.)

At Mac N Bob's before the game, I encountered a sea of purple.  Turned out to be Amherst, not UWW.  But did see a bit of green.   I joked with the Amherst fans that we didn't need to be 'enemies' until tomorrow - they agreed, and sounded like they fully expected it to be an IWU/Amherst final.  I suspect they were much more shocked than I was!

[The Roop]

There were dozens of Division III coaches in Salem for the weekend and some are still talking about playing the D-III title game at the Division I championship site should be put into the permanent schedule.

I believe it was 7 or 8 years ago when I suggested that.