MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[bopol]

Basketball isn't football. Teams play, on average, twice a week. When the MIAC gets into the meat of their schedule, for example, they can play 3 times a week. Football plays once a week. I can't imagine having 3 or 4 weeks off between the end of the season and the beginning of the NCAA tournament. Last year, MHB and Amherst had two full weeks off because they had byes in the opening round. There was also two weeks between the Elite 8/Final 4 and the Final, right?

Yes.  Last year's schedule involved a 1-1-1-2-0-1 schedule (# of games per week) for those who made it to the c-game.

Ack, I really disliked this.  The three weekend 64 (or so) team tournament works so well and I think the NCAA Division III provides a unique experience and shouldn't be wrapped up into the D1 tournament (which is awesome too, but in a different way).

I would prefer to see some rotation in the D3 championship games, perhaps an 8 year run through the 8 regions choosing a top notch arena to host.

I nominate Tarble for the Midwest.

[Gregory Sager]

Lastly, when the 3 pointers weren't falling, perhaps another mode of attack would have produced a better result than to just routinely continue something that obviously wasn't working. For example, Division 1 transfer Jordan Nelson took six shots from the field during the game. ALL of the six were from beyond the arc, but not one was successful.  Perhaps putting the ball on the floor, getting into the defender, and likely drawing a foul and getting to the line would have been a wiser choice. Especially when you consider Nelson led the league in FT shooting, and was 3 of 4 in the UWW game. Could this have been something worth trying?

The ironic thing is that putting the ball on the floor and driving (and, thus, getting to the line as well) had been the better part of Nelson's game in the tournament. He was only shooting a pedestrian 12-36 (.333) from beyond the arc in the tourney going into the UWW game. But he had scored 16, 22, 20, and 12 in those four previous tourney games, in large part because opposing defenders had had to overextend to cover him as a shooter, giving him the chance to get around them in space and to drive. But he had stopped driving in the second half of the opening-round Webster game, when the IWU offense went completely static and the Titans very nearly lost the ballgame after blowing an 18-point second-half lead. I didn't watch the UWW/IWU game, but it sounds like something similar might've happened in terms of Nelson becoming one-dimensional again.

[Gregory Sager]

A bad combination when KJ Evans has his best game as a Warhawk and Jordan Nelson has his worst game as a Titan on the same night!

He had his best scoring game. I can recall a few games when he solid double-doubles but only scored in the 20s.

Actually, just taking a quick look at tournament...

vs. Northwestern:  11 pts, 10 rebounds in 24 minutes
vs. Augustana: 25 pts, 12 reb, 3 assists
vs. Texas-Dallas: 22 pts, 3 rebs on 10-13 shooting
vs. Emory: 27 pts, 11 rebs
vs. IWU: 30 pts, 5 rebs, 2 assists, 2 steals
vs. Williams: 22 pts, 7 rebs.

Off the top of my head, I think only Mayer could rival those numbers. Not bad for a guy 6'3"

Looks to me that Evans had better games against Augustana and Emory than he did against Illinois Wesleyan, Chuck. Those big rebounding totals outweigh the handful of extra points that he scored against the Titans.

[Gregory Sager]

Conversation on the home page about the D3 title game being played at the D1 Final 4 site in the future. My comment: Stupid and idiotic. D3 is about the real STUDENT/athlete and ending the season in the middle of March rather than on April Fool's day so the players can get back to concentrating on academics.

Everyone agrees that the student-athlete comes first in D3, Lanny. And that's precisely the reason why moving the D3 title game to align with the D1 Final Four weekend is not stupid and idiotic. Tom's comment:

I think every player, coach and fan who participated in last year's Final will disagree with you. I read it was a great and unforgettable experience.

... seems to reflect the consensus among the student-athletes who took part in last year's championship game. And, since it's all about them and not about us as fans, their opinion ought to count more than ours.

Salem does a fantastic job hosting the Final 4.  Totally useless trivia: Florida State was playing Georgetown in the the NIT tonight. To show how big the NAIA tournament was until he NCAA figured out that it could make a ton of money on their 64/68 team format, FSU was one of the 32 teams in the 1955 NAIA tournament (as an at large entrant). For the 95% of posters who never witnessed an NAIA tournament, you missed a unique format which basketball crazy fans loved (8 games at one site on Monday through Wednesday to get the field down to 8-the winner had to win 5 games in either 5 or 6 days).

They put fluoride in the drinking water and force automobile drivers to wear seatbelts nowadays, too, Lanny -- and they also gave the vote to 18-year-olds. Time marches on.

Let the news of recruitment and new CCIW players begin . . .

All I've got in the for-sure category thus far is 6'1, 170 guard Nick Novak from Plainfield East going to Augie. Not sure if that's just a verbal or if he's put in a deposit.

[Mr. Ypsi]

A bad combination when KJ Evans has his best game as a Warhawk and Jordan Nelson has his worst game as a Titan on the same night!

He had his best scoring game. I can recall a few games when he solid double-doubles but only scored in the 20s.

Actually, just taking a quick look at tournament...

vs. Northwestern:  11 pts, 10 rebounds in 24 minutes
vs. Augustana: 25 pts, 12 reb, 3 assists
vs. Texas-Dallas: 22 pts, 3 rebs on 10-13 shooting
vs. Emory: 27 pts, 11 rebs
vs. IWU: 30 pts, 5 rebs, 2 assists, 2 steals
vs. Williams: 22 pts, 7 rebs.

Off the top of my head, I think only Mayer could rival those numbers. Not bad for a guy 6'3"

Looks to me that Evans had better games against Augustana and Emory than he did against Illinois Wesleyan, Chuck. Those big rebounding totals outweigh the handful of extra points that he scored against the Titans.

You guys are so literal minded!

OK, OK, KJ Evans, had his best scoring game ever; I also don't guarantee that Jordan Nelson had his overall worst game ever, but it's gotta be close!

If they hadn't closed the basket against IWU, they had UWW beat.

[Hardwood]

Conversation on the home page about the D3 title game being played at the D1 Final 4 site in the future. My comment: Stupid and idiotic. D3 is about the real STUDENT/athlete and ending the season in the middle of March rather than on April Fool's day so the players can get back to concentrating on academics.

Everyone agrees that the student-athlete comes first in D3, Lanny. And that's precisely the reason why moving the D3 title game to align with the D1 Final Four weekend is not stupid and idiotic. Tom's comment:

I think every player, coach and fan who participated in last year's Final will disagree with you. I read it was a great and unforgettable experience.

... seems to reflect the consensus among the student-athletes who took part in last year's championship game. And, since it's all about them and not about us as fans, their opinion ought to count more than ours.

Salem does a fantastic job hosting the Final 4.  Totally useless trivia: Florida State was playing Georgetown in the the NIT tonight. To show how big the NAIA tournament was until he NCAA figured out that it could make a ton of money on their 64/68 team format, FSU was one of the 32 teams in the 1955 NAIA tournament (as an at large entrant). For the 95% of posters who never witnessed an NAIA tournament, you missed a unique format which basketball crazy fans loved (8 games at one site on Monday through Wednesday to get the field down to 8-the winner had to win 5 games in either 5 or 6 days).

They put fluoride in the drinking water and force automobile drivers to wear seatbelts nowadays, too, Lanny -- and they also gave the vote to 18-year-olds. Time marches on.

Let the news of recruitment and new CCIW players begin . . .

All I've got in the for-sure category thus far is 6'1, 170 guard Nick Novak from Plainfield East going to Augie. Not sure if that's just a verbal or if he's put in a deposit.

Check your source - Novak is going to Millikin

[Mr. Ypsi]

BTW, if Williams can figure out a way to compensate for the graduation of Mike Mayer and Taylor Epley, I think they are the team to beat next year.  Duncan Robinson and Ryan Kilkullen gives them a helluva start.

But by the end of the year, I think Mike Mayer was the best player in the country.

[iwu70]

Ypsi, agree about Mayer . . . very talented.  Williams will miss him for sure.

IWU has a good core coming back -- surely a very talented perimeter group with Overstreet, Sodemann, Nelson and Dolan -- perhaps add Stempel or others.  Marietti is coming back and let's hope others step up -- Heyen, Seibring, Coyle.  Of course, would love to see Rossi return, though Q will probably jump all over me for even mentioning him.  Others from the JV ranks, and those deep on the varsity pine this season?  Lots of guys there, many with stellar HS careers, waiting their chance to shine.  We'll have to see what Ron Rose has in his recruiting bag -- esp. in the realm of 3s, 4s, and 5s.  Final Four outcome this season surely can't hurt recruiting.  Piece in the Pgraph today about "continuing the success" of the program, recruiting guys who fit the style of play and type of program that IWU and Coach Rose have built over the years.  (at pantagraph.com)

WW has KJ Evans back, right -- and I surely don't want to see any more of him ever again. 

I think next year's Titan squad will again be very good, fun to watch.  Two key starting positions open -- the 3 and the 4.  Marietti likely starts at the 5 and those other four perimeter guys share at the PG and 2.  Maybe Nelson plays the 3, with Overstreet and Sodemann also on the floor.  (You can see why I hope Rossi returns, at the 3). 

Thanks again to the Seniors -- a great group.  We'll miss them. 

IWU70

[newCCIWfan]

Conversation on the home page about the D3 title game being played at the D1 Final 4 site in the future. My comment: Stupid and idiotic. D3 is about the real STUDENT/athlete and ending the season in the middle of March rather than on April Fool's day so the players can get back to concentrating on academics.

Everyone agrees that the student-athlete comes first in D3, Lanny. And that's precisely the reason why moving the D3 title game to align with the D1 Final Four weekend is not stupid and idiotic. Tom's comment:

I think every player, coach and fan who participated in last year's Final will disagree with you. I read it was a great and unforgettable experience.

... seems to reflect the consensus among the student-athletes who took part in last year's championship game. And, since it's all about them and not about us as fans, their opinion ought to count more than ours.

Salem does a fantastic job hosting the Final 4.  Totally useless trivia: Florida State was playing Georgetown in the the NIT tonight. To show how big the NAIA tournament was until he NCAA figured out that it could make a ton of money on their 64/68 team format, FSU was one of the 32 teams in the 1955 NAIA tournament (as an at large entrant). For the 95% of posters who never witnessed an NAIA tournament, you missed a unique format which basketball crazy fans loved (8 games at one site on Monday through Wednesday to get the field down to 8-the winner had to win 5 games in either 5 or 6 days).

They put fluoride in the drinking water and force automobile drivers to wear seatbelts nowadays, too, Lanny -- and they also gave the vote to 18-year-olds. Time marches on.

Let the news of recruitment and new CCIW players begin . . .

All I've got in the for-sure category thus far is 6'1, 170 guard Nick Novak from Plainfield East going to Augie. Not sure if that's just a verbal or if he's put in a deposit.

Check your source - Novak is going to Millikin

Novak's twitter page would seem to support Hardwood ... https://twitter.com/novak_burner_14/status/426923358307885056

[madzillagd]

BTW, if Williams can figure out a way to compensate for the graduation of Mike Mayer and Taylor Epley, I think they are the team to beat next year.  Duncan Robinson and Ryan Kilkullen gives them a helluva start.

But by the end of the year, I think Mike Mayer was the best player in the country.

Epley I'm not worried about, there are scorers on the team and they will step up and fill the gap.  Neither McCreary nor Weinheimer scored at all so taking them off the floor and having a couple bench guys playing that can score will also help things out.  Replacing Mayer is an impossible task and that's where Williams will be hurting next year.  Kilcullen did a great job starting for 5 games when Mayer was out, averaged 12 a game and offensively the Ephs adjusted well.  He isn't the post presence that Mayer was but he's an excellent 3 point shooter so he can help you in other ways.  The problem however is Kilcullen is 2 inches shorter, much lighter and just does not hold down the fort defensively like Mayer does.  Williams already gave up too many offensive boards and when Mayer is not in it is even worse.  They should have 6'10 Ed Flynn back who took a medical year off so that will help, but he's never played any meaningful minutes so it will be interesting to see if he's progressed at all in his game.   

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Left Salem before the final game, but on Friday, I sure didn't see a whole lot of local fans at the game.
There was a lot of empty seats.

The first game, the media side was full and the bench side was empty. The second game was the flip. The Civic Center tries to split the tickets so that at least in the final fans will be on both sides. I think they have tried different versions of how tickets are split up... not sure if they think it through again.

It has been talked about before, but it's time to move on. I've been to Salem 6 times now, the buzz for the locals is gone.

Considering Salem as the championships until 2019... don't hold your breathe. Also, locals come to the games (I certainly see them), but they might also be used to it too much. Salem tries its best to get more people there... who knows why they aren't coming out more often.

Yes, they do a great job, both running the event, and treating the teams like champs. The gym was half empty, and IWU travels well. It hurt that UWW had both teams playing in the final four, but not half the gym.
I don't have a place in mind, but I think it could us a new look.
Maybe the local fans thought that since the NCAA didn't charge to get into last years final game, they didn't want to pay this year, can't say I would blame them.

I think you are confusing the venues and such. Sure, the NCAA didn't charge for the final game in ATLANTA... but there was still a charge for SALEM last year. How would the locals in Virginia really be affected by the Atlanta decision... they probably didn't go to that game, either.

The Salem experience is more than just for the fans. To paraphrase Carey Harveycutter who is the dean of now 70 NCAA championships in Salem since the mid-90's, it is about the student-athlete experience. One team may win, but all four teams are talking about their experience there. To paraphrase Dave Hixon from Amherst... people don't congratulate them about making the championship weekend, they congratulate them for getting to Salem. People don't talk about the final four being the goal, they talk about Salem being the goal.

For the teams and the student-athletes in Division III men's basketball and football, Salem is like Omaha in D1 baseball and other locations... it is about the destination. Even teams last year who made the round of eight in Salem talked about finally making it to Salem no matter the round of the tournament.

The student-athletes have an amazing experience and much of what the NCAA now does and mandate at championship venues was started and done first in Salem. Knock it all you want, but Salem keeps getting approved for championships for more reasons then the number of fans who show up... but on that note, more fans still make the trip to Salem for the men's basketball weekend than almost any other sport at any other venue in Division III. While people may not love the "numbers," apparently the experience and the location are where people are willing to go to celebrate Division III basketball.

[nescac1]

Agree 100 percent with Madzillagd's analysis of Williams.  The Ephs will have the best guy on the floor in almost any game they play in Robinson, so that is a great start, and this may be the best Williams' shooting team ever with four REALLY good distance shooters in Kilcullen, Robinson, Rooke-Ley, and Greenman, plus a competent one in Wohl.  Every guy in the starting unit can handle the ball and pass, too, so they will be extremely difficult to guard.  But, they have reliable no post presence returning at all, on either end, and we all saw in the Final Four what a huge difference a dominant post player can make.  I think this year's Eph team is, barring some incredible improvement from unexpected player, a bit more talented than next year's looks to be, but as I noted on the Top 25 thread, the same could be said for nearly every top 20 team.

I think it is silly for Whitewater NOT to be the favorite heading into next year.  They've won two out of the past three titles, they are incredibly experienced and have what is easily the best group of seniors in the country -- Evans, who will be a first-team all-American, Young, who will likely also be a pre-season all-American of some sort, Odegaard, who has been an important piece of two title teams, and Egan, who looks like he will be a decent starting five.  That is a REALLY good senior core. All they need is one or two young guys to step up and they will be basically as good as they were this year, perhaps even better.  A lot of the top WIAC teams, especially Stevens Point, look down from this year's level, so Whitewater could post a gaudy record in league play. 

After Whitewater, I like Cabrini (despite the late season stumbles, much of which were injury-related) and Augustana.  Augustana had some nice wins and return basically everyone, so it seems like they are going to be the class of the CCIW.  I think that both Williams and Illinois Wesleyan are certainly top-10 caliber teams, but just behind those three squads heading into the year. Also watch out for Scranton, who, although they disappointed in the NCAA tourney, finished 24-4 and return almost everyone, including Ross Danzig who is one of the top returning players.   

[Gregory Sager]

Check your source - Novak is going to Millikin

Yeah, I meant Millikin, not Augie.

I hope that I didn't cause Matt Nadelhoffer to do a spit-take on his computer last night.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Agree 100 percent with Madzillagd's analysis of Williams.  The Ephs will have the best guy on the floor in almost any game they play in Robinson, so that is a great start, and this may be the best Williams' shooting team ever with four REALLY good distance shooters in Kilcullen, Robinson, Rooke-Ley, and Greenman, plus a competent one in Wohl.  Every guy in the starting unit can handle the ball and pass, too, so they will be extremely difficult to guard.  But, they have reliable no post presence returning at all, on either end, and we all saw in the Final Four what a huge difference a dominant post player can make.  I think this year's Eph team is, barring some incredible improvement from unexpected player, a bit more talented than next year's looks to be, but as I noted on the Top 25 thread, the same could be said for nearly every top 20 team.

I think it is silly for Whitewater NOT to be the favorite heading into next year.  They've won two out of the past three titles, they are incredibly experienced and have what is easily the best group of seniors in the country -- Evans, who will be a first-team all-American, Young, who will likely also be a pre-season all-American of some sort, Odegaard, who has been an important piece of two title teams, and Egan, who looks like he will be a decent starting five.  That is a REALLY good senior core. All they need is one or two young guys to step up and they will be basically as good as they were this year, perhaps even better.  A lot of the top WIAC teams, especially Stevens Point, look down from this year's level, so Whitewater could post a gaudy record in league play. 

After Whitewater, I like Cabrini (despite the late season stumbles, much of which were injury-related) and Augustana.  Augustana had some nice wins and return basically everyone, so it seems like they are going to be the class of the CCIW.  I think that both Williams and Illinois Wesleyan are certainly top-10 caliber teams, but just behind those three squads heading into the year. Also watch out for Scranton, who, although they disappointed in the NCAA tourney, finished 24-4 and return almost everyone, including Ross Danzig who is one of the top returning players.

I agree with all this.  I got a bit carried away with Williams, since Friday night was the only time I saw them live.  I've seen them on the internet a few times, so I knew Friday's game was 'the perfect storm' - if they could play like that every game they would have been undefeated and won every game by 20+!  I certainly didn't see anyone on their roster who can begin to replace Mayer's bulk and presence - Robinson is a helluva talent, but no post man.

Of necessity, IWU may go to the infamous 'five guard offense' next year!  With Marietti, it is not quite that dire, but I like the idea of Overstreet, Sodemann, and Nelson all on the floor at the same time; then we just have to find a 4 (the candidates currently on roster would seem to be Seibring, Heyen, and Coyle).

Back to Williams for a moment.  My wife was really taken by Mike Greenman (and we agreed that Williams may have taken poetic license to list him as 5'8" - 5'6" seemed more like it!).  The kid was a cold-blooded assassin - he made a couple of threes that Reggie Miller would have been proud to claim!

[toad22]

As a Williams fan, I had hoped that we might meet IWU in the championship game. As far back as 1997, these two d3 powers have played together in the final 4, but have never met. Sooner rather than later they should meet!