MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[izzy stradlin]

On the surface, I don't really buy the financial aid thing.  The CCIW's top schools are all very expensive and these staffs are still bringing in great recruiting classes.  You adjust to what your school's price tag and financial aid rules are, and find a way to get it done I think.

Every school has pluses and minuses when it comes to recruiting, we all know that. But changing a financial aid policy can have a dramatic impact upon how a coaching staff goes about its work, and it can affect the overall tenor of an athletic department. To me, the decline of Carthage baseball, which was so dominant for so many years under both Augie Schmidt III and Augie Schmidt IV, is an even bigger indicator that things aren't what they used to be in terms of the way that that school operates with regard to recruiting. And it's a lot easier for those of us who don't follow a certain school to dismiss that school's inherent problems than it is to acknowledge them. Wheaton can only admit evangelical Christians with ACTs over 30 (or SATs over 1450), and, since the Wheaton aid package sucks, your mom and dad have to have a ton of scratch in order for you to go there? Big deal, Wheaton fans. Suck it up. North Park has to overcome the fact that it's an urban school that needs to recruit suburban kids for a lot of sports that barely exist in the city? Too bad, North Park. Carthage can't compete as well as it used to in terms of aid for suburban Chicagolanders, so now it has to compete in Wisconsin with much-cheaper WIAC schools? Tough toenails, Carthaginians.

I think that a little understanding and clarity is called for here.

I agree, the Carthage baseball decline really makes me think there is something bigger than a single sport.  Augie Schmidt's teams almost always got off the bus with the best players and it was obvious.  Now they don't.   I don't think Augie is doing anything differently.   

[kenoshamark]

Greg and Bob bring up quite an interesting topic.  As I noted when the article on the team came out, the fact that there were only two recruits just didn't pass the "sniff" test for me.  I'm not going to offer up too much conjecture here on the subject, although I would certainly like to.  What I will say is that Bosko deemed a change needed to be made with the staff last year.  I have known Dave Roehl for a long time and he is one heck of a basketball coach who was a big part of the program back to the days of Wiertel, Garnes and McDaniel.  The new staff (larger than what they had in the past), including Steve is very young.  My guess is they don't have the connections the previous staff had, but only getting two kids into a program that is upper classmen dominated is just strange.

I don't know what affect the tuition piece plays.  What I will say is the football team brought in over 100 freshmen this year so they found a way to make it work.  How many of them will stick it out, time will tell, but that staff still got kids into the school. 

There have been some good recruits over the past ten plus years, maybe the message from the sideline is the problem, just sayin....

[John Gleich]

Bosko also needs to quit recruiting 6-9 players with NBA aspirations, when they go pro to Benedictine it leaves a hole in your roster.

Fixed it for you

[AppletonRocks]

Greg and Bob bring up quite an interesting topic.  As I noted when the article on the team came out, the fact that there were only two recruits just didn't pass the "sniff" test for me.  I'm not going to offer up too much conjecture here on the subject, although I would certainly like to.  What I will say is that Bosko deemed a change needed to be made with the staff last year.  I have known Dave Roehl for a long time and he is one heck of a basketball coach who was a big part of the program back to the days of Wiertel, Garnes and McDaniel.  The new staff (larger than what they had in the past), including Steve is very young.  My guess is they don't have the connections the previous staff had, but only getting two kids into a program that is upper classmen dominated is just strange.

I don't know what affect the tuition piece plays.  What I will say is the football team brought in over 100 freshmen this year so they found a way to make it work.  How many of them will stick it out, time will tell, but that staff still got kids into the school. 

There have been some good recruits over the past ten plus years, maybe the message from the sideline is the problem, just sayin....

100 freshman football players?  Wow, that is insane.  They all can't think they are going to play, so they?  Do you have JV ball? 

Carthage baseball is always competitive in D3.  Recall seeing them at D3 World Series.

[WUPHF]

Let me add, parenthetically, that I have always valued the fact that you can discuss a relevant topic like this on CCIW Chat, even in-season, without people kvetching at you for talking about something other than basketball.

This is very true.  I am guilty of starting and prolonging my share of financial aid-related discussion in this thread, so I can vouch for this.  I am reminded that I need to reach out to an old colleague to see if I can get the list of Illinois institutions and their respective discount rates.

I am surprised to hear that an institution that charges $36,570 in tuition (base rate) cannot offer at least enough need-based aid to cover the $5,000 Illinois MAP grant for those that would otherwise be eligible.

I would think that financial aid is at least part of the problem, but the story of 100 freshmen football recruits...well, that story blows my mind.

[AndOne]

Greg and Bob bring up quite an interesting topic.  As I noted when the article on the team came out, the fact that there were only two recruits just didn't pass the "sniff" test for me.  I'm not going to offer up too much conjecture here on the subject, although I would certainly like to.  What I will say is that Bosko deemed a change needed to be made with the staff last year.  I have known Dave Roehl for a long time and he is one heck of a basketball coach who was a big part of the program back to the days of Wiertel, Garnes and McDaniel.  The new staff (larger than what they had in the past), including Steve is very young.  My guess is they don't have the connections the previous staff had, but only getting two kids into a program that is upper classmen dominated is just strange.

I don't know what affect the tuition piece plays.  What I will say is the football team brought in over 100 freshmen this year so they found a way to make it work.  How many of them will stick it out, time will tell, but that staff still got kids into the school. 

There have been some good recruits over the past ten plus years, maybe the message from the sideline is the problem, just sayin....

100 freshman football players?  Wow, that is insane.  They all can't think they are going to play, so they?  Do you have JV ball? 

Carthage baseball is always competitive in D3.  Recall seeing them at D3 World Series.

The problem, Appleton, is that almost every incoming freshman thinks he is going to play. 90% or better of incoming freshmen were the best player on their high school teams, and probably the best kid on any team they played on since they were 5 or 6 years old. Many simply cannot comprehend that they won't play at least meaningful minutes sooner rather than later. These same kids have no idea, or they won't admit it, that they likely have zero chance to play until soph year at the earliest, and realistically, not much more than zero until junior year.
Furthermore, many high school kids think they are too good for D3, They will say "I always dreamed of playing D1 ball." It matters little that these dreams are often unrealistic even to the point where their HS coach has told the kd he is a D3 player. Many times these delusions are fueled by the kid's parents, especially the fathers.

[AndOne]

North Central 64
Redlands 47

The Cardinals reversed their m.o. by playing a crappy first half and then lighting it up in the second half, coming out of the locker room with a torrid opening five minutes or so that more or less put this one away early.

After a weekend of watching full-sound games online and broadcasting one myself, it was strange to watch this one in total silence.

Truth be told, the Cardinals initially played down to the level of competition. Redlands would finish dead last in the CCIW, and NCC should probably have won by 27 rather than the actual 17 point differential. NCC also committed 17 turnovers which probably would translate to 20-25 against stiffer competition. This just won't cut it, and if the Cardinals are going to continue to be a ranked team they are going to have to address this deficiency.

For the second straight game, the Cardinals were led in scoring by Jayme Moten who scorched the nets for 25 points on 9 of 13 shooting, including 6 of 9 from beyond the arc. Charlie Rosenberg had 13 points and 6 boards. Jack Burchett pulled down a game high 11 rebounds.

After winging their way home from 2 games in California, the Cardinals will touch down briefly in the home nest until heading to the Juniata (Pennsylvania) College tournament where they will face #12 Dickinson on Friday.

[veterancciwfan]

Looking forward to the Augie/Whitewater game Tuesday. Don't know which team to root for.

[AndOne]

4. Now that Mr. Nelson is back from his suspension and illness----No maybe about it, he will hit his share of threes. He is a damn good shooter most of the time. Unfortunately, there is also little doubt what he'll do immediately afterwards. I know Titan fans think its a sin to criticize an IWU player in any way, shape, or form no matter what he may do, so I'll not issue any further opinions/comments on the subject except to say he is lucky to be playing in today's environment.

Jordan Nelson was never suspended, Mark.  Ron Rose chose to not play him in one game because after getting off to a bad start through 2 games, he thought Nelson was pressing and just not playing well.  Rose thought a game off would help get his head in a better place.  Huge, huge difference from a suspension.

Unfortunately, Bob, you and I might just have to continue to disagree on the subject of Mr. Nelson's behavior. By the way, "3 goggles" which you previously gave a long dissertation about, is not one of the motions he makes after a successful three. But lets refrain from current further discussion of that subject as I have a question about your quoted point.

You said Nelson was not suspended and Ron Rose just chose not to play him because he got off to a bad start in the 1st two games and sitting out would "help get his head in a better place." OK, this sounds like a BNP--Coach's decision.
But, in these cases, the player is still dressed and sitting on the bench. He just doesn't get in the game. It seems that if Rose had wanted to send a message and "get his head in a better place", this would have been the normal solution.

However, in cases where a player is not injured but does not even dress, some form of discipline is usually involved. Accordingly, I would venture that if it was a disciplinary situation the coach's action would more accurately be defined as a one game suspension as opposed to a DNP. 
It sounded like Nelson didn't even dress for that particular game. Thats why I took it as a suspension.
So my question is did he dress for the game Rose held him out of? If not, it really seems like a suspension rather than an unusual way of getting his head on straight.

[AndOne]

Looking forward to the Augie/Whitewater game Tuesday. Don't know which team to root for.

What do you think would most further the position of your team? when you answer that question you'll likely have the answer to your dilemma. 

[AndOne]

So, I'm curious how well the IWU fans think the team played today.  This was the first game of theirs I watched, but I did see Chicago play earlier this year at the Hoopsville Tournament.  This seemed like a pretty similar performance from Chicago - disciplined and solid.  IW?U came across as a better team overall, but obviously not by much.  Was this a pretty typical IWU performance so far?  Better?  Worse?

IWU came in a 39% 3-point shooting team and had a really rough afternoon shooting the 3 -- 5-24.  So from that standpoint, it was not a "typical" IWU performance.

Chicago and IWU both have good low post games and want to play inside/out, so going in it was clear this would be a "CCIW style", physical, grind-it-out type game.  In games like this it's kind of hard to take a lot away from either team.  Basically IWU survived in what was definitely a grind.  The Titans will "look" a lot better vs Wash U - I'm pretty sure of that.  It will be an up and down kind of game with a flow.

Chicago has some serious talent in the two Whitney Young guys and Waller Perez.  Really athletic and talented nucleus there.  I have to believe Chicago contends in the UAA this year.

I watched this game on the computer. No audio was available. Weird watching with no announcing.

In watching, I was impressed with IWU's ball movement. Whether by dribbling, or more often by passing, I think the Green team does this really well. Part of it is how well players move without the ball to get open to receive the passes. This is not something new. It seems the Bloomington boys have historically done a good job in this phase of the game for several previous years as well.

[iwu70]

AO, agree with you about the Greenies and ball movement.  Part of this is that all the Titans pass the ball well, even the bigs.  And, a big part of this is the movement with the ball by Overstreet and now Dolan too.  Those two guys can pretty much go wherever they want on the floor with the ball.  This is a deep Titan team and could be deeper, better, when Nelson starts shooting it better, when Sodemann gets into a better mid-season grove and when Marietti and Heyen get back from injury.  I guess Marietti returns next game.  Don't know if Heyen can break into the line-up, get any minutes, as the Titans are basically equally strong with depth two deep in every position on the floor now 1-5.  Should be a great year for the Titans.  Now a good test @ Wash U next Saturday.

IWU70

[iwu70]

Very pleasant surprises so far are Bausch and Trevor Seibring, both playing very very well.  And, to be frank, Pennington is playing better than Nelson so far, playing tough on-ball D and hitting treys at a high percentage.  A program guy who is getting his chance now.  Great to see.  Wouldn't be too too surprised to see him get more minutes in future. 

IWU70

[Titan Q]

You said Nelson was not suspended and Ron Rose just chose not to play him because he got off to a bad start in the 1st two games and sitting out would "help get his head in a better place." OK, this sounds like a BNP--Coach's decision.
But, in these cases, the player is still dressed and sitting on the bench. He just doesn't get in the game. It seems that if Rose had wanted to send a message and "get his head in a better place", this would have been the normal solution.

However, in cases where a player is not injured but does not even dress, some form of discipline is usually involved. Accordingly, I would venture that if it was a disciplinary situation the coach's action would more accurately be defined as a one game suspension as opposed to a DNP. 
It sounded like Nelson didn't even dress for that particular game. Thats why I took it as a suspension.
So my question is did he dress for the game Rose held him out of? If not, it really seems like a suspension rather than an unusual way of getting his head on straight.

Yes, Jordan Nelson dressed and was on the bench for the Illinois College game.  I'm not really sure where you would have gotten anything different than that.

https://twitter.com/jeo259/status/536345670958186496/photo/1

[GoPerry]

And it's a lot easier for those of us who don't follow a certain school to dismiss that school's inherent problems than it is to acknowledge them. Wheaton can only admit evangelical Christians with ACTs over 30 (or SATs over 1450), and, since the Wheaton aid package sucks, your mom and dad have to have a ton of scratch in order for you to go there? Big deal, Wheaton fans. Suck it up.

I devoted a portion of my quiet time this morning to sucking it up . . . and I feel a lot better