MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

First regional rankings...

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/11/first-regional-rankings-released-today/

There are a series of links on that page to the datasheets that the NCAA used to detail how every team in the region fares against the selection criteria.  (NCAA motto: we're fully transparent, until we're not...)  Very interesting to see this broken down in one place.

I can't remember those being available previously.  Am I getting senile or is this the first time those have been available?  (Or both...)

Those have been published with the regional rankings for at least the last 2-3 years.

The transparency problem, of course, is that they don't release the final regional rankings (used in the selection/seeding process).

Thanks.  Senile it is.

And, the final double-secret region rankings are the "until we're not" part of the motto...

Just a point to clarify... the men's basketball committee is not part of the group that doesn't want the final regional rankings hidden from view. In fact, they are outspoken proponents that the rankings should be released along with the data. They have been that way for years after they helped get them release back when Dave Martin was committee chair (but had been working on it under previous chairs as well). There are other committees in other sports that, in my opinion, have coaches associations that don't work as closely as the NABC does with the basketball committee. Those committees, I have been told, don't like to be second-guessed on their rankings and argue the tournament selections speak for themselves. There is even one sport (women's volleyball, apparently) who doesn't want the data and SOS numbers released, if you can believe it.

This is a topic I am trying to change from my point of view... even finding a compromise. Who knows... maybe we will see the information and data in the future... but it isn't because men's basketball is against releasing the info.

[kiko]

First regional rankings...

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/11/first-regional-rankings-released-today/

There are a series of links on that page to the datasheets that the NCAA used to detail how every team in the region fares against the selection criteria.  (NCAA motto: we're fully transparent, until we're not...)  Very interesting to see this broken down in one place.

I can't remember those being available previously.  Am I getting senile or is this the first time those have been available?  (Or both...)

Those have been published with the regional rankings for at least the last 2-3 years.

The transparency problem, of course, is that they don't release the final regional rankings (used in the selection/seeding process).

Thanks.  Senile it is.

And, the final double-secret region rankings are the "until we're not" part of the motto...

Just a point to clarify... the men's basketball committee is not part of the group that doesn't want the final regional rankings hidden from view. In fact, they are outspoken proponents that the rankings should be released along with the data. They have been that way for years after they helped get them release back when Dave Martin was committee chair (but had been working on it under previous chairs as well). There are other committees in other sports that, in my opinion, have coaches associations that don't work as closely as the NABC does with the basketball committee. Those committees, I have been told, don't like to be second-guessed on their rankings and argue the tournament selections speak for themselves. There is even one sport (women's volleyball, apparently) who doesn't want the data and SOS numbers released, if you can believe it.

This is a topic I am trying to change from my point of view... even finding a compromise. Who knows... maybe we will see the information and data in the future... but it isn't because men's basketball is against releasing the info.

That's all well and good, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a systemic issue.  My note was about the NCAA (broadly) and not the men's basketball committee.  The NCAA chooses to be fully transparent throughout the process until the end, when they're fully opaque.  The membership could choose to let individual sports decide their own approach, but for whatever reason, they elect not to.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Let's remember... this is a membership issue, not the NCAA. The NCAA will do whatever the membership decides. Right now, a vote of championship committees has a majority voting against releasing the information. Yes, there could be a solution that each sport makes that choice... however, one thing I do know about how things work is usually it's one way for all (though not always the case). That example and other ideas are ones I have been suggesting.

[kiko]

Let's remember... this is a membership issue, not the NCAA. The NCAA will do whatever the membership decides. Right now, a vote of championship committees has a majority voting against releasing the information. Yes, there could be a solution that each sport makes that choice... however, one thing I do know about how things work is usually it's one way for all (though not always the case). That example and other ideas are ones I have been suggesting.

As I said:

That's all well and good, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a systemic issue.  My note was about the NCAA (broadly) and not the men's basketball committee.  The NCAA chooses to be fully transparent throughout the process until the end, when they're fully opaque.  The membership could choose to let individual sports decide their own approach, but for whatever reason, they elect not to.

I am well aware that the membership drives what the NCAA chooses to do or not to do...

[augiefan]

Augie's last night was certainly a pleasant surprise for a minority of us in this discussion group. I have become accepting of Augie  losing virtually every year to IWU in Bloomington, so the margin of victory was a stunner.

However, given the topsy turvy way this season has played out so far I am not ready to bet the CCIW tournament will be in RI this year. Millikin and Wheaton both pushed Augie to the limit in their earlier games. Augie has been pretty inconsistent this year, so hopefully they will not be too full of themselves over the win over the Titans come Saturday night. The season final at Wheaton is even scarier. Another venue where Augie has suffered some big losses. 

Of course, IWU and Elmhurst both have even tougher matchups with much more at stake, so the league champ(s) may well have 4 losses. Crazy times. I cannot remember a year when every team in the league was a threat to beat any other team on a given night. Can anyway else?

[AndOne]

North Central's win over Carthage last night can primarily be attributed to 3 factors:

1. Jack Burchett's great overall game. Big Jack scored a career high 26 points, had 3 assists, and collected a game high 9 rebounds. He also played top-notch defense, clogging the middle and making 3 blocks, and 2 steals while fouling only once. He also posted the most remarkable stat of the evening by going 12 for 14 from the line including, I believe, a string of 7 in a row.
2. Overall defense, especially that played by Brandon White. Brandon was the principal defender on Carthage PG Donte Logan who absolutely torched the Cardinals to the tune of 28 points and 10 assists in the teams first meeting. Last night, he was held to 6 points on 3 of 9 shooting, including 0 for 3 on long balls. Brandon was also the second high scorer for the Cards with 10, and the game's second high rebounder with 8.
3. The Cardinals attacking the basket. For the evening, their aggressiveness resulted in 30 FTs compared to only 8 attempts for CC. The 27 points scored from the line offset the 21-0 point advantage Carthage scored from beyond the arc.

[Gregory Sager]

Crazy times. I cannot remember a year when every team in the league was a threat to beat any other team on a given night. Can anyway else?

I can think of a few. While the anything-can-happen theme didn't extend all the way down to the bottom of the league in 1982-83, the league did produce five teams that were so closely matched up that only one game separated them at the top of the standings (Millikin, led by the immortal Stunning Wayne Dunning, won the league at 12-4, while North Park, Augustana, Illinois Wesleyan, and North Central all finished 11-5).

The following season (1983-84) was competitive all the way down to the bottom. The three teams that tied for last (Carroll, Carthage, and Elmhurst) each finished 5-11, which was the best record ever posted by last-place teams during the CCIW's nine-team era. I remember those teams well, and all three had some good players on them: Steve "the Mad Bomber" Albinger and Len Jensen for Carroll; Tom Demith and Jay Koenitzer for Carthage; and Mark McCormack, Troy Nelson, and Scott Wright for Elmhurst. Two other teams, Wheaton and the now-Dunning-less Millikin, finished one game better at 6-10. That season North Park, which finished third at 10-6, lost something like four or five CCIW games by either one or two points. Virtually the same team went on to win the CCIW and the national championship the next season.

The most competitive latter-day season was the 1999-00 campaign. The three teams that tied for last (Augustana, Elmhurst, and North Central) each finished 4-10 in league play, the best record ever posted by last-place teams during the CCIW's eight-team era. And ...

And has anyone ever gone from 6th (Or lower) to 1st in one year?

... one of those three teams that finished sixth (and, thus, tied for last place) in 1999-00, Elmhurst, came back and won the league the next year with mostly the same lineup, led by Ryan Knuppel and Nelson Grant. (The most significant off-season addition to that team was juco transfer Justin Carley, who took Tony Pippin's place at PG for the 'jays in 2000-01.)

The 1999-00 Augie team, the first to be coached by Grey Giovanine, wasn't nearly as talented as his later teams would be, but it still had a couple of pretty good guards in Mike Nee and John Benedetti. While the 1999-00 North Central team struggled, as did all four NCC teams during the Bob Bray era, it still had the league's most dynamic player in Yulie Wells.

I remember the 1999-00 season very well. Nobody took any team for granted that season.

[Mr. Ypsi]

This doesn't speak directly to every team being a threat, but in the last 20 seasons IWU has been to the Final Four six times.  Only TWO of those years did they win the conference title.

[kiko]

The most competitive latter-day season was the 1999-00 campaign. The three teams that tied for last (Augustana, Elmhurst, and North Central) each finished 4-10 in league play, the best record ever posted by last-place teams during the CCIW's eight-team era. And ...

At this point only Millikin and Carthage have not cleared the 4-win bar.  (Which I would say is knee-high rather than ankle-high.)

These two play one another at the Griz in the season finale.  And Carthage's other remaining game is home to 4-win Wheaton.

It is a bit of an inside straight, but there is still a somewhat reasonable possibility that we will see everyone at or above four wins this year.

[Hardwood]

Augie's last night was certainly a pleasant surprise for a minority of us in this discussion group. I have become accepting of Augie  losing virtually every year to IWU in Bloomington, so the margin of victory was a stunner.

However, given the topsy turvy way this season has played out so far I am not ready to bet the CCIW tournament will be in RI this year. Millikin and Wheaton both pushed Augie to the limit in their earlier games. Augie has been pretty inconsistent this year, so hopefully they will not be too full of themselves over the win over the Titans come Saturday night. The season final at Wheaton is even scarier. Another venue where Augie has suffered some big losses. 

Of course, IWU and Elmhurst both have even tougher matchups with much more at stake, so the league champ(s) may well have 4 losses. Crazy times. I cannot remember a year when every team in the league was a threat to beat any other team on a given night. Can anyway else?

A true "Augie Fan" would know that the Vikings have won 6 of their last 11 games at the Shirk against IWU

[AppletonRocks]

I still haven't heard any thoughts from any of you on the CCIW vs WIAC festival in 2017, supposedly to be hosted by Carroll at the Potowatami Casino in Milwaukee. 

[AndOne]

I still haven't heard any thoughts from any of you on the CCIW vs WIAC festival in 2017, supposedly to be hosted by Carroll at the Potowatami Casino in Milwaukee.

Details are still being developed, but my sources advise most CCIWers will be laying down their early money at the blackjack tables, while the majority of the WIACers will be throwing craps.     

[John Gleich]

I still haven't heard any thoughts from any of you on the CCIW vs WIAC festival in 2017, supposedly to be hosted by Carroll at the Potowatami Casino in Milwaukee.

Details are still being developed, but my sources advise most CCIWers will be laying down their early money at the blackjack tables, while the majority of the WIACers will be throwing craps.     

We leave all of the craps throwing to the craps throwing pro...

[Gregory Sager]

I still haven't heard any thoughts from any of you on the CCIW vs WIAC festival in 2017, supposedly to be hosted by Carroll at the Potowatami Casino in Milwaukee.

Details are still being developed, but my sources advise most CCIWers will be laying down their early money at the blackjack tables, while the majority of the WIACers will be throwing craps.     

Mark ...

[AppletonRocks]

I thought this was an excellent opportunity for you CCIW guys to meet your future employers from the WIAC.  Guess you didn't think this through.