MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

One team in Division III has wins over both Augustana and UW-Stevens Point -- North Central (both on the road).

Cardinals continue to look like a great Pool C pick.

NCC was 5-7 in their last 12.    Two nice wins but like Carthage last year not enough wins overall.

I know a lot of us have been over this and many agree they should've gotten a Pool C bid. As much as we look at the wins, we have to look at the losses. Obviously getting swept by Elmhurst was never going to rank NCC ahead of them.

I don't think NCC should have been ranked ahead of Elmhurst in the Central region, but I think the Cards were a good pick in round #19...

AT - Brooklyn (.786/.507/2-3)
C - North Central (.667/.587/3-6)
E - Plattsburgh State (.704/.534/1-0)
GL - Hope (.680/.558/2-6)
MA - Franklin & Marshall (.769/.517/3-3)
NE - Springfield (.704/.584/3-5)
S - Centre (.800/.513/1-2)
W - Bethel (.679/.564/4-3)

In addition to the huge SOS number, and the 9 games vs regionally ranked, I felt like NCC's wins at Augie and at UWSP should have given them the edge vs this group.  Augie and UWSP were two of the highest seeds in the tournament going in.

Clearly NCC was down at the end of the bubble where you just live with whatever the committee decides, but they actually had a very solid case in round 19.

And its not only the last 12 games that count.
Jayme Moten was injured halfway through the Wheaton game at NCC. This was the Cardinals 20th game of the season. He was unable to play in the next 3 games against conference powers Augustana and Illinois Wesleyan as well as against Carthage. In an attempt to secure a spot in the conference tournament he returned for the last 2 regular season conference games against Elmhurst (OT loss), and North Park (10 point win). In both of those games Moten, likely a 2nd team all-conference player if not for missing the 3 1/2 conference games with the injury, was limping noticeably and probably played at about 60-65%. In the conference tourney game at Augie, he was about 80-85%. It would have been nice to see what would have happened with Moten available all season, as he would have been in the national tournament.

Aside from Jayme's situation (not an excise, but a fact) you also need to consider the fact, as TQ pointed out, there is one team in the country with wins over BOTH of the teams that will play for the national championship. That is North Central. In addition to those two victories, they also beat one game national tourney winner Illinois Wesleyan, and had narrow losses to tourney participants Elmhurst, and also Dickinson. Top this off with the fact that the Cardinals played the thirteenth toughest schedule (according to Massey) in the country. I'm sorry, but there is just no way in h, e, double hockey sticks that North Central wasn't one of the 62, or whatever the number is, best teams in the country this year.
They undoubtedly should have beaten Millikin at home and Elmhurst on the road. However, I think their real mistake was playing 2 non NCAA teams. One of these was in a tournament in PA where they didn't really have a choice of opponent.

[Naperick]

One team in Division III has wins over both Augustana and UW-Stevens Point -- North Central (both on the road).

Cardinals continue to look like a great Pool C pick.

Yep!  They were one of the best 19 Pool C teams.

And Carthage should have made it 2014.

[sac]

I understand the rah rah CCIW stuff, but using tournament advancement as a way to justify that team A over team B should have been selected 3 weeks ago is pretty disingenuous to me.

If I wanted to I could have made the same argument last week that Hope had the best resume on that last table because 2 of its opponents also made the Sweet 16, and 6 made the tournament and 5 won games.  And it would sound kind of silly.


If you really want to talk about why NCC isn't in the tournament, talk about their loss to Millikin.  Ultimately that's the one that kept them out of the tournament.


This   .704/.584/3-5  is better than .667/.587/3-6   all the time.

[AndOne]

I DID talk about the Millikin game, sac, when I said "they undoubtedly should have beaten Millikin at home." There is no question about that.
However, the bottom line here is that the NCAA has demonstrated that its not who you play, but how many you win. Thus, if you're not one of the nation's dominant teams, the key is to either be a good team in a lesser conference and beat up on everyone else, or to make sure you schedule a bunch of 2nd tier teams (preferably at home with no travel related wear and tear involved) for your non-conference games in order to chalk up a bunch pretty sure wins.

[Titan Q]

This   .704/.584/3-5  is better than .667/.587/3-6   all the time.

I just don't think that is true, Scott.  Picking between those two ends up basically being a subjective decision (the committee has to subjectively decide how to weigh objective data).  That decision could go either way...especially depending on the quality of the wins vs regionally ranked.

And to clarify, I said that I thought NCC was the best Pool C pick at #19 on selection day based on those two huge wins.  My reference to it now is simply to say those same two wins continued to look better and better as the tournament unfolded. 

[Titan Q]

UW-Stevens Point 70
Augustana 54


Just way too much nasty UWSP defense, combined with impressive shooting - 12-18 3-point (.667), 26-47 FG (.553).  Augie's bigger lineup just couldn't get out to shooters - exact same problem IWU's bigger lineup face against the Pointers.

Augie also could not consistently get low post touches.  They did in the first 5 minutes or so of the game, but really not after that.

UWSP's defense is about as good as you will ever see - their ability to guard 6-6 and 6-7 guys with 6-4 guys is just so impressive.

The Pointers beat Augie 70-54...they beat IWU 70-53.  Neither Augie or IWU were able to guard Stevens Point, or take advantage of size mismatches down low.

[Titan Q]

Congratulations to Augustana on an incredible season.  Winning a CCIW title is a huge deal...getting to Salem is a huge deal...and playing in the national championship game is a huge deal.

Scary to think how good this junior-dominated Augie team will be next year.  Wow.

[bopol]

I DID talk about the Millikin game, sac, when I said "they undoubtedly should have beaten Millikin at home." There is no question about that.
However, the bottom line here is that the NCAA has demonstrated that its not who you play, but how many you win. Thus, if you're not one of the nation's dominant teams, the key is to either be a good team in a lesser conference and beat up on everyone else, or to make sure you schedule a bunch of 2nd tier teams (preferably at home with no travel related wear and tear involved) for your non-conference games in order to chalk up a bunch pretty sure wins.

Lesson I've taken away from the last two years (Carthage in 14 and NCC in 15) is that the committee does not look deeply into the "Results vs. Regional Ranked Opponents".  Springfield is a fine team, but they did not have the wins against the caliber of teams that North Central beat.  It didn't matter.

I agree with you, I had NCC in the tournament over Springfield, but it is what it is. 

[Augie6]

Congrats to Augie on a great season.  I'm sure the team is disappointed with the outcome today, but it's a great achievement finishing 2nd in the nation.  With all starters returning, here's hoping for a return trip to Salem next year.  Also, congrats to UWSP on their 4th national championship.  They were dominating today and throughout the tournament. 

[AndOne]

Congrats to UWSP on it's championship.
To Augie too.
I must admit, I thought Augie would win.
Seems like Augie should certainly be next year's pre-season #1.

[GoPerry]

Congratulations to the Pointers on their national championship- well done and surely deserved.

Congratulations also to the Vikes and Coach G on their great run.  You represented the conference well.

[iwu70]

Congrats to the Pointers on their 4th title.  I thought the game would be closer, but as Q indicated, this is a unique unit, with all very talented guys, playing together, incredibly good on defense and very efficient on offense.  Not a deep team at all, most playing 36+ minutes.  Only two off the bench for limited time.  They made it work in dominating fashion. 

Congrats to Augie on a great season, a great run.  They will be even tougher next year.  Everyone in CCIW will be gunning for them, not least my TITANS.

A great season of D3 hoops, much enjoyed. Thanks to all the D3 chatsters for making this board the best in D3 basketball.

IWU70

[Greek Tragedy]

Congratulations to Augie as well. Grea eam but just too much defense by Point.  Hunt Hill is a stud, for sure. They are only juniors, wow!

[Titan Q]

My way-too-early look at 2015-16...

Clear Favorite (clear preseason national #1)
1. Augustana

Clear #2 (potential preseason top 10)
2. Elmhurst

Top challengers for 3rd
3. Illinois Wesleyan
4. North Park

Top 4 contenders but depends on some stuff
5. North Central
6. Wheaton
7. Millikin

They'll have to prove me wrong
8. Carthage

I believe the strength of the league, top to bottom, will be at an all-time high next season.  All 8 programs are really getting after it right now, and really trying to win.  As you look at my early predictions above I think you will agree that whichever teams end up in spots 6/7/8, the bottom of the league will be really strong.

[hopefan]

My way-too-early look at 2015-16...

Clear Favorite
1. Augustana

Clear #2
2. Elmhurst

Top challengers for 3rd
3. Illinois Wesleyan
4. North Park

Top 4 contenders but depends on some stuff
5. North Central
6. Wheaton
7. Millikin

They'll have to prove me wrong
8. Carthage

I believe the strength of the league, top to bottom, will be at an all-time high next season.  All 8 programs are really getting after it right now, and really trying to win.  As you look at my early predictions above I think you will agree that whichever teams end up in spots 6/7/8, the bottom of the league will be really strong.

I think I may have to turn into a CCIW fan next year, as I see my SLIAC programs as falling even further from their already low level... ...  would be fun to become a CCIW chatster....