MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

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CCIW >

Quote from: NCC on March 25, 2015, 07:16:03 PM
Quote from: sac on March 25, 2015, 07:10:59 PM
Hope played down there 3 years ago, NCC's "tournament" was called a "classic",  we were paired to play NCC the second game win or lose.  Fortunately since both teams were fed giant delicious cupcakes that year, winning on Friday wasn't a problem for either team.  Both your tournament's history and your recollection are a little dubious.


Clearly called "Tournament"....
http://northcentralcardinals.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=97&path=mbball
Sponsored by Marriot as usual

If you click on the "Game Recap" you can read details about NCC "playing in the championship game on Saturday"
...

Gregory Sager

Quote from: NCC on March 25, 2015, 04:45:01 PM
Quote from: badgerwarhawk on March 25, 2015, 11:31:52 AM
Quote from: NCC on March 25, 2015, 10:52:47 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 24, 2015, 11:42:41 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 22, 2015, 11:27:09 PM
Even in one of the best conferences, you need to go better than 8-6. That's just not going to cut it.

All the talk about scheduling weaker ... how about just inviting D3 teams to your home tournament? That's a start.

I think North Central was on the table at the end but was a roadblock.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 23, 2015, 10:57:51 AMBopol,

In the end it doesn't matter how you compare RRO for North Central vs. Springfield or anyone else -- at .667 winning percentage vs. D-III schools, they simply were not getting in without an automatic bid. So one more win (Millikin, perhaps), or scheduling someone else to open the season, might well have gotten them in the tournament. You've spent a lot of time breaking down something that I suspect the committee probably didn't even talk about because they didn't make this particular committee's basic baseline.

(emphasis mine)

Some points are so good that they're worth making twice, eh, Pat? ;)

North Central's advocates Mark and bopol have yet to address the issue of the baffling choices Todd Raridon has made for opening-round opponents in the NCC Tipoff Tournament. This past season it was Trinity International, an NAIA team and therefore a wasted game in terms of Pool C qualifications. Last season it was Valor Christian College (formerly World Harvest Bible College), a USCAA school and thus just as useless in Pool C terms as was this year's opener against TIU. Two years ago, the Tipoff Tourney opener for the Cardinals was Illinois Tech, which was then beginning its transition into D3 and thus didn't count for Pool C purposes.

For the two seasons prior to that, NCC opened with a D3 regional foe, so nobody could fault Todd Raridon for that. But the year before, 2009-10, he opened with Oberlin in the Tipoff Tourney -- and at that time a game against Oberlin, a Great Lakes Region program, did not count towards Pool C's regional criteria. The year before that the Cards opened with a D3 regional foe (MacMurray), but then faced an NAIA opponent (Mount Vernon Nazarene) in the Tipoff Tourney title game the next night. And the previous year, the Cards played not one, but two non-D3 opponents in the Tipoff Tourney: the aforementioned World Harvest Bible College, and (then-NAIA) Lindenwood.

Most years Todd Raridon just throws away opening night in terms of Pool C criteria. I have no idea why. North Central's CCIW neighbors to the north never seem to have any trouble finding a D3 team to beat up schedule for the opening night of the Pfund -- and I doubt that Wheaton offers better pizza, nicer tourney t-shirts, or bigger trophies. ;) If you're a coach who really cares about getting Pool C berths, you learn to schedule the way that the administrative powers that be in D3 want you to schedule ... and that means, first and foremost, scheduling D3 teams. Heck, it's even easier to set up a criteria-friendly schedule now, since regionality has been lessened in importance with regard to D3 scheduling. And if the reason why NCC ends up playing USCAA and NAIA schools in the Tipoff Tourney is because Todd Raridon has trouble finding D3 opponents who want to come to the airplane hangar to start their seasons, then perhaps it's time for him to scrap that tournament and use those two non-conference scheduling slots more strategically.

Every year non-MIAA people used to rag on Hope and Calvin in the MIAA room for wasting regular-season games on the likes of Cornerstone, Aquinas, Grace Bible, and other southwestern Michigan non-D3 opponents. Seems to me that NCC deserves some of the same sort of criticism.

Quote from: AndOne on March 24, 2015, 11:15:14 PM
Greg-

Your stance regarding all the CCIW schools currently having the right staffs and visions in place might be forced to take a step or two left or right if Giovanine leaves Augustana.  :-\

Absolutely. The Augie posters in the CCIW football room have certainly been unsparing in their criticism of Augustana's previous football hire. So there's no guarantees that Augie will make the right choice if Giovanine moves on to Peoria.

If you want to talk about the Tip-Off Tourney..
NCC scheduled UWW to be in that tourney and less than a month prior to the game, UWW coaches declined to play NCC.. They didn't want to play NCC in the second game of the year (Assuming both teams advanced to the final) for whatever reason and made NCC change the setup of the tourney to make it a round robin rather than a win-and-advance setting.  So don't blame Todd for not scheduling an important game to start the year... He brought in the best team possible basically, they just refused to compete (Should have counted as a win for NCC, in my opinion).

What in God's name are you talking about.  You've got it completely backwards.  We wanted to play NCC and when we signed the contract to play in their tournament it was with the understanding that we would be playing NCC.   Unfortunately the contract didn't specify who we would be playing but the verbal understanding between the coaches was that we would play NCC in the second game.  We didn't know that we wouldn't be playing NCC until a few days prior to the tournament when we were sent film of Trinity International University instead.  It was NCC who made the change.  We didn't make them change the format either.  I'm not sure where you've gotten your information but mine comes straight from the horse's mouth.   

My source is the NCC organization..
Our website listed TBA because the Tip Off tourney, that we have hosted for multiple years now, is a win-and-advance setting.. Thus, no way of knowing who your opponent would be on Day 2 (UWW implied but they would need to beat their opponent on Day 1)....
It has been a win-and-advance setting always in the past and most likely will always be that way. What would make the hosting team change the rules of its OWN tournament that it has been setting up for years?? We even advertised the tournament around campus as the "Championship Game" on Day 2... Not a second "round robin game" on day 2.

I believe your info is most certainty incorrect Warhawk. Think about which team had something to lose playing a tough opponent on Day 2 of the season... The highly ranked UWW or the unranked and picked to finish tied for 4th in the CCIW, NCC..................?

This doesn't pass the smell test for several reasons:

* As Pat pointed out, it doesn't match the evidence of the schedules that were posted online by NCC and UWW;
* As Greek Tragedy and sac stated, there was no logical reason for UWW to try to duck NCC, given that the Warhawks were already playing the likes of Cardinal Stritch, Augustana (in Rock Island), and Hope (in Holland); and
* BadgerWarhawk, who works at the scorer's table for UWW, has bona-fide insider credentials. I suspect that when BW said he got his info "straight from the horse's mouth," the "horse" to whom he was referring was UWW head coach Pat Miller.

Quote from: NCC on March 25, 2015, 04:45:01 PMAnd in response to Mwunder:
In individual sports like wrestling or tennis or swimming, If you schedule to play a team who has a nationally ranked individual on their team and he decides to sit out or not compete (Like UWW in this case), for a reason not due to injury, than it is looked at as a win for the individual that was denied the opportunity to beat the ranked individual. This occurred once back in my college days many years ago. Our star player had a chance to play an individual that was ranked ahead of him in the national rankings, but on match day the individual decided to "rest" due to playing a match the day before (Both teams did I will add) and not risk playing our star player. The committee viewed it as a loss to the player who sat out and he fell in the rankings.  Obviously we are talking abot different sports here, butthats why I said "In my opinion." haha

But that's not how college basketball works, so why even bring it up?

Quote from: NCC on March 25, 2015, 07:00:58 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 25, 2015, 06:50:29 PM
Here's the conversation about the schedule, NCC:
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4592.msg1599508

Thanks Pat.
Tough for me to read much into Warhawks version of the story after seeing that. In no way would Whitewater Coaching Staff be under the impression that they would "DEFINITELY"  be playing NCC on Day 2... It is a win-and-advance tourney, so no telling who will make the final.. In the past NCC has failed to make the championship game on Day 2 and I know coming into the year, NCC expectations were not very high. NCC coaches made it very clear in pre-game prep that Trinity was going to be a challenge.

Boy, does that deserve an eye-roll. In fact, I'll give it two: ::) ::) ;)

Trinity International was coming off of a terrible 2013-14 season in which it went 5-25, and the Trojans were already 1-4 this year when they entered the airplane hangar on November 21. They lost to NCC by 17 and to UWW by 23. TIU, which has been a lackluster program for as long as I can remember, did finish the season 13-17, but only one of those thirteen wins was over a team that finished the season with a winning record.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

CCIW >

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 25, 2015, 07:31:56 PM

Boy, does that deserve an eye-roll. In fact, I'll give it two: ::) ::) ;)

Trinity International was coming off of a terrible 2013-14 season in which it went 5-25, and the Trojans were already 1-4 this year when they entered the airplane hangar on November 21. They lost to NCC by 17 and to UWW by 23. TIU, which has been a lackluster program for as long as I can remember, did finish the season 13-17, but only one of those thirteen wins was over a team that finished the season with a winning record.

Eye-roll?
I can recall conversations with Raridon and players on the team stating that after review of film, TTU was not to be overlooked and "We would have to play well" ... Which we did, very well (Imagine if a Freshman didn't go 8-8 from the free throw line down the stretch). Second half score was 39-36. I can also recall a quote from Burchett, "Friday will be a tougher game than Saturday"

Keep in mind, NCC went into this game with no clue what their starting lineup and impact players would be. Absolutely no identity. Moten was thrown on practice team for attitude reasons in the week before, Charlie and Jack were both known to be untrustworthy with their minutes due to fouls, NCC had lost just about every impact player from the previous year, etc..

And I agree, there is no logical reason as to why they didn't play.. Our tourney is run the same way each year, than when UWW is in it, it changes out of no where? UWW is the only factor that is different from the previous years. That's all im saying

sac

Quote from: NCC on March 25, 2015, 07:17:27 PM
Quote from: NCC on March 25, 2015, 07:16:03 PM
Quote from: sac on March 25, 2015, 07:10:59 PM
Hope played down there 3 years ago, NCC's "tournament" was called a "classic",  we were paired to play NCC the second game win or lose.  Fortunately since both teams were fed giant delicious cupcakes that year, winning on Friday wasn't a problem for either team.  Both your tournament's history and your recollection are a little dubious.


Clearly called "Tournament"....
http://northcentralcardinals.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=97&path=mbball
Sponsored by Marriot as usual

If you click on the "Game Recap" you can read details about NCC "playing in the championship game on Saturday"
...

In 2012 it was a classic format with predetermined opponents

CCIW >

Quote from: sac on March 25, 2015, 08:18:13 PM
Quote from: NCC on March 25, 2015, 07:17:27 PM
Quote from: NCC on March 25, 2015, 07:16:03 PM
Quote from: sac on March 25, 2015, 07:10:59 PM
Hope played down there 3 years ago, NCC's "tournament" was called a "classic",  we were paired to play NCC the second game win or lose.  Fortunately since both teams were fed giant delicious cupcakes that year, winning on Friday wasn't a problem for either team.  Both your tournament's history and your recollection are a little dubious.


Clearly called "Tournament"....
http://northcentralcardinals.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=97&path=mbball
Sponsored by Marriot as usual

If you click on the "Game Recap" you can read details about NCC "playing in the championship game on Saturday"
...

In 2012 it was a classic format with predetermined opponents

http://athletics.hope.edu/sports/mbkb/2012-13/schedule

Not according to either website, the coaching staff at NCC, or the T-Shirt that I have from the Tournament.. Haha

sac

You are missing the point that Hope v North Central on Saturday of that weekend was predetermined.  You can call it a tournament all you want but it was a "classic" format.


Gregory Sager

Quote from: NCC on March 25, 2015, 07:53:17 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 25, 2015, 07:31:56 PM

Boy, does that deserve an eye-roll. In fact, I'll give it two: ::) ::) ;)

Trinity International was coming off of a terrible 2013-14 season in which it went 5-25, and the Trojans were already 1-4 this year when they entered the airplane hangar on November 21. They lost to NCC by 17 and to UWW by 23. TIU, which has been a lackluster program for as long as I can remember, did finish the season 13-17, but only one of those thirteen wins was over a team that finished the season with a winning record.

Eye-roll?
I can recall conversations with Raridon and players on the team stating that after review of film, TTU was not to be overlooked and "We would have to play well" ... Which we did, very well (Imagine if a Freshman didn't go 8-8 from the free throw line down the stretch). Second half score was 39-36. I can also recall a quote from Burchett, "Friday will be a tougher game than Saturday"

Keep in mind, NCC went into this game with no clue what their starting lineup and impact players would be. Absolutely no identity. Moten was thrown on practice team for attitude reasons in the week before, Charlie and Jack were both known to be untrustworthy with their minutes due to fouls, NCC had lost just about every impact player from the previous year, etc..

Spin it any way you like, but that doesn't get around the fact that TIU (not TTU, it's Trinity International University) was, is, and (as far as I can tell) will continue to be a lightweight basketball program that should never be anything but a punching bag to any CCIW team that faces the Trojans, untrustworthy big men and attitude-problem transfers notwithstanding.

Again, we're talking about a team that went 5-25 the previous season and was 1-4 going into the game against NCC.

(No offense to the TIU alumni who read this -- and you all know who you are. ;) Nice school, nice people ... just not really much of a basketball program there.)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Pat Coleman

Quote from: NCC on March 25, 2015, 08:27:09 PM
Quote from: sac on March 25, 2015, 08:18:13 PM
Quote from: NCC on March 25, 2015, 07:17:27 PM
Quote from: NCC on March 25, 2015, 07:16:03 PM
Quote from: sac on March 25, 2015, 07:10:59 PM
Hope played down there 3 years ago, NCC's "tournament" was called a "classic",  we were paired to play NCC the second game win or lose.  Fortunately since both teams were fed giant delicious cupcakes that year, winning on Friday wasn't a problem for either team.  Both your tournament's history and your recollection are a little dubious.


Clearly called "Tournament"....
http://northcentralcardinals.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=97&path=mbball
Sponsored by Marriot as usual

If you click on the "Game Recap" you can read details about NCC "playing in the championship game on Saturday"
...

In 2012 it was a classic format with predetermined opponents

http://athletics.hope.edu/sports/mbkb/2012-13/schedule

Not according to either website, the coaching staff at NCC, or the T-Shirt that I have from the Tournament.. Haha

Actually, here's the log on how this game appeared in our system:

Changes
11/29/2012 11:39 AM EST   [details] ccteuscher@noctrl.edu   Statistics updated because of roster changes [view]
11/29/2012 11:37 AM EST   [details] ccteuscher@noctrl.edu   Statistics updated because of roster changes [view]
11/18/2012 7:46 PM EST   [details] chandler@miaa.org   Adding http://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2012-13/box_scores/20121117_7do0.xml (BS)
11/18/2012 7:46 PM EST   [details] chandler@miaa.org   Adding http://www.miaa.org/sports/mbkb/2012-13/boxscores/20121117_7do0.xml (BS)
11/18/2012 7:46 PM EST   [details] chandler@miaa.org   Statistics updated to match an uploaded packed file [view]
11/17/2012 10:45 PM EST   [details] pngsports@msn.com   Status code changed to final, Score set to Hope 49, North Central (Ill.) 60, Status changed to Final
10/3/2012 1:53 AM EDT   [details] pat@d3hoops.com   Game added

The game was never a TBA game in our system -- if it had been, it would have had a TBA changed to North Central (Ill.) on the night before or the day of the game. Instead, it was North Central from the get-go.

Here's what a changelog looks like from a game where the pairings were not preset.

12/8/2012 8:57 PM EST   [details] chandler@miaa.org   Adding http://www.miaa.org/sports/mbkb/2012-13/boxscores/20121208_0qri.xml (BS)
12/8/2012 8:54 PM EST   [details] chandler@miaa.org   Adding http://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2012-13/box_scores/20121208_0qri.xml (BS)
12/8/2012 8:51 PM EST   [details] chandler@miaa.org   Statistics updated to match an uploaded packed file [view]
12/8/2012 8:47 PM EST   [details] chandler@miaa.org   Status code changed to , Score set to Spring Arbor 77, Hope 73, Status changed to Final - OT
12/8/2012 8:47 PM EST   [details] chandler@miaa.org   Visitor team changed to Spring Arbor
11/1/2012 7:35 PM EDT   [details] chandler@miaa.org   Game added
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

AndOne

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 24, 2015, 11:42:41 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 22, 2015, 11:27:09 PM
Even in one of the best conferences, you need to go better than 8-6. That's just not going to cut it.

All the talk about scheduling weaker ... how about just inviting D3 teams to your home tournament? That's a start.

I think North Central was on the table at the end but was a roadblock.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 23, 2015, 10:57:51 AMBopol,

In the end it doesn't matter how you compare RRO for North Central vs. Springfield or anyone else -- at .667 winning percentage vs. D-III schools, they simply were not getting in without an automatic bid. So one more win (Millikin, perhaps), or scheduling someone else to open the season, might well have gotten them in the tournament. You've spent a lot of time breaking down something that I suspect the committee probably didn't even talk about because they didn't make this particular committee's basic baseline.

(emphasis mine)

Some points are so good that they're worth making twice, eh, Pat? ;)

North Central's advocates Mark and bopol have yet to address the issue of the baffling choices Todd Raridon has made for opening-round opponents in the NCC Tipoff Tournament. This past season it was Trinity International, an NAIA team and therefore a wasted game in terms of Pool C qualifications. Last season it was Valor Christian College (formerly World Harvest Bible College), a USCAA school and thus just as useless in Pool C terms as was this year's opener against TIU. Two years ago, the Tipoff Tourney opener for the Cardinals was Illinois Tech, which was then beginning its transition into D3 and thus didn't count for Pool C purposes.

For the two seasons prior to that, NCC opened with a D3 regional foe, so nobody could fault Todd Raridon for that. But the year before, 2009-10, he opened with Oberlin in the Tipoff Tourney -- and at that time a game against Oberlin, a Great Lakes Region program, did not count towards Pool C's regional criteria. The year before that the Cards opened with a D3 regional foe (MacMurray), but then faced an NAIA opponent (Mount Vernon Nazarene) in the Tipoff Tourney title game the next night. And the previous year, the Cards played not one, but two non-D3 opponents in the Tipoff Tourney: the aforementioned World Harvest Bible College, and (then-NAIA) Lindenwood.

Most years Todd Raridon just throws away opening night in terms of Pool C criteria. I have no idea why. North Central's CCIW neighbors to the north never seem to have any trouble finding a D3 team to beat up schedule for the opening night of the Pfund -- and I doubt that Wheaton offers better pizza, nicer tourney t-shirts, or bigger trophies. ;) If you're a coach who really cares about getting Pool C berths, you learn to schedule the way that the administrative powers that be in D3 want you to schedule ... and that means, first and foremost, scheduling D3 teams. Heck, it's even easier to set up a criteria-friendly schedule now, since regionality has been lessened in importance with regard to D3 scheduling. And if the reason why NCC ends up playing USCAA and NAIA schools in the Tipoff Tourney is because Todd Raridon has trouble finding D3 opponents who want to come to the airplane hangar to start their seasons, then perhaps it's time for him to scrap that tournament and use those two non-conference scheduling slots more strategically.

Every year non-MIAA people used to rag on Hope and Calvin in the MIAA room for wasting regular-season games on the likes of Cornerstone, Aquinas, Grace Bible, and other southwestern Michigan non-D3 opponents. Seems to me that NCC deserves some of the same sort of criticism.


Greg-

Your "criticism" has some merit, but there are also some extenuating circumstances that would not be known to other than someone close to the NCC program.
First of all, let me state that my opinion, especially after what occurred this year, is that ALL non-conference games should be scheduled against D3 teams, and the weaker those teams, the better. I say this because I believe the NCAA has demonstrated that the primary determining factor in Pool C selection is W/L record. Schedule all D3s, and win a large percentage and the chances you'll be invited to the big dance are good. However, that said, its not my team and my opinion is just that-an opinion. At any rate here is some information relative to the scheduling of teams appearing in the NCC Tip-Off Tourney in recent years.

2014-15--Trinity International. I don't know why they were scheduled. Maybe the allure of beautiful downtown NaPPerville isn't what it once was.
2013-14--Valor Christian. Disappointing, but not surprising. The problem this season is that in coming off their Final Four appearance, nobody was very anxious to play the Cardinals. The staff made about 25 calls attempting to convince various teams to come to the opening tournament. I know because I was in the office when some of those calls were made. Being unable to convince a "real" team to attend, NCC just had to finally fill the spot. Valor's inclusion by default was not for lack of trying.
2012-13. While not as definite as in 2013-14, somewhat of the same problem in that NCC was expected to be a very good team and others weren't exactly beating down the Gregory Areana doors. IL Tech called and said they would like to come to the opening tournament, and their offer was accepted. as it turned out, scheduling them became a moot point as NCC went not only to the Big Dance, but the Final Four as well.
2011-12--D3 opponent. No problem
2010-11--Same
2009-10--Oberlin-a D3, but not a regional opponent under the then definition. This was a late substitution as one of the WIAC schools, I believe it was LaCrosse, backed out very, very late. At that late date, it was a stroke of luck to find a D3 school with an opening.
Thats six years and thats enough. Maybe there was no good pizza in Naperville before that, the T-shirts were made out of polyester, and the trophies were tiny. Possibly all of the above. Who knows?


Pat Coleman

Quote from: AndOne on August 25, 2012, 12:53:08 PM
NORTH CENTRAL 2012-2013 NON-CONFERENCE SCHEDULE

11/16 vs ?*
11/17---Hope (27-2)*
11/20---Aurora (13-13)
11/24---Carroll (17-10)
12/1 @ Trine (15-11)
12/2 @ Kalamazoo (8-17)
12/8---Simpson (12-14)
12/11---UW-Platteville (14-12)
12/15 @ Benedictine (13-14)
12/28 vs Ramapo (18-9)#
12/29 vs UW-LaCrosse (17-10)#

* NCC/Mariott Tip-Off Tournament
# D3Hoops.com Classic in Las Vegas

The listed teams went a combined 154-112 last season (57.9%).

And here is the predetermined pairing for 2012-13.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

AndOne

#40150
Quote from: sac on March 25, 2015, 09:42:50 PM
You are missing the point that Hope v North Central on Saturday of that weekend was predetermined.  You can call it a tournament all you want but it was a "classic" format.

The NCC opening weekend has always been called the Tip-Off Tournament.
However, some years it has been run as a "true" tournament where the losers the first night play each other the second night, and the 1st night winners due likewise. Other years it has been operated in a classic format where there are predetermined opponents on both nights.
Sac is right about the year in question. Just because its called a "tournament" doesn't mean it really was, and neither does the fact that T-shirts may have been printed saying Tip-Off Tournament.

* Seems confirmed by Pat's above post.  :)

Greek Tragedy

I think we should get off the "quality of the opponent" aspect of the argument and whether or not the coach said "they can't be overlooked etc., etc., etc..."  Isn't that coach speak anyway? You always want your team to perform at the highest level no matter who you play and no matter what the team's expectations are for the year. I doubt any coach is going to tell his team, "Don't worry boys, this should be a cupcake game. Let's focus on tomorrow's opponent."

So who cares if it's Trinity International or Whitewater,  it should always be viewed as a tough game.

Pointers
Breed of a Champion
2004, 2005, 2010 and 2015 National Champions

Fantasy Leagues Commissioner

TGHIJGSTO!!!

joehakes

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 25, 2015, 11:08:51 PM
Quote from: NCC on March 25, 2015, 07:53:17 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 25, 2015, 07:31:56 PM

Boy, does that deserve an eye-roll. In fact, I'll give it two: ::) ::) ;)

Trinity International was coming off of a terrible 2013-14 season in which it went 5-25, and the Trojans were already 1-4 this year when they entered the airplane hangar on November 21. They lost to NCC by 17 and to UWW by 23. TIU, which has been a lackluster program for as long as I can remember, did finish the season 13-17, but only one of those thirteen wins was over a team that finished the season with a winning record.




Eye-roll?
I can recall conversations with Raridon and players on the team stating that after review of film, TTU was not to be overlooked and "We would have to play well" ... Which we did, very well (Imagine if a Freshman didn't go 8-8 from the free throw line down the stretch). Second half score was 39-36. I can also recall a quote from Burchett, "Friday will be a tougher game than Saturday"

Keep in mind, NCC went into this game with no clue what their starting lineup and impact players would be. Absolutely no identity. Moten was thrown on practice team for attitude reasons in the week before, Charlie and Jack were both known to be untrustworthy with their minutes due to fouls, NCC had lost just about every impact player from the previous year, etc..

Spin it any way you like, but that doesn't get around the fact that TIU (not TTU, it's Trinity International University) was, is, and (as far as I can tell) will continue to be a lightweight basketball program that should never be anything but a punching bag to any CCIW team that faces the Trojans, untrustworthy big men and attitude-problem transfers notwithstanding.

Again, we're talking about a team that went 5-25 the previous season and was 1-4 going into the game against NCC.

(No offense to the TIU alumni who read this -- and you all know who you are. ;) Nice school, nice people ... just not really much of a basketball program there.)

Thanks, Greg.  As most likely the only TIU (TC when I was there) alum that reads this site, I appreciate the nice comments about the school.  The coach that is there now will improve the program but there is just a difference between NAIA and DIII basketball in style of play, etc.  I prefer DIII every day of the week.

badgerwarhawk

Quote from: NCC on March 25, 2015, 04:45:01 PM

My source is the NCC organization..
Our website listed TBA because the Tip Off tourney, that we have hosted for multiple years now, is a win-and-advance setting.. Thus, no way of knowing who your opponent would be on Day 2 (UWW implied but they would need to beat their opponent on Day 1)....
It has been a win-and-advance setting always in the past and most likely will always be that way. What would make the hosting team change the rules of its OWN tournament that it has been setting up for years?? We even advertised the tournament around campus as the "Championship Game" on Day 2... Not a second "round robin game" on day 2.

I believe your info is most certainty incorrect Warhawk. Think about which team had something to lose playing a tough opponent on Day 2 of the season... The highly ranked UWW or the unranked and picked to finish tied for 4th in the CCIW, NCC..................?

My source has personal first hand knowledge of what went down because they are the one who scheduled it.  With all due respect NCC you are simply mistaken.  The truth of the matter is that we wouldn't even have participated in the tournament had we known we would play Trinity.  We specifically agreed to participate with the understanding that we would be playing NCC.  And suggesting we insisted the format be changed is simply nonsense.  Obviously I'll never convince you otherwise so this will be my last word on the subject.  I know what happened and I know NCC dodged us after making a committment to our staff.  You can believe whatever fantasy you wish. 
"Strange days have found us.  Strange days have tracked us down." .... J. Morrison

Mr. Ypsi

I prefer to believe that bw and NCC are both telling the truth as they know it, and may even be accurately reporting the 'truth' as their sources 'knew it'.  In the immortal words of Cool Hand Luke, "What we have here is a failure to communicate".  It seems clear that UWW sincerely believed they had a commitment to play NCC; it seems equally clear that that was not the understanding of NCC.  One would wish that contracts were always so clearly written that such misunderstandings would be impossible, but, alas, history is filled with wars that started just that way! ;)  (Hopefully troops are not currently massing on the Halas-Lombardi line! ;D)