MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

IWU 150
Greenville 117

http://www.iwusports.com/boxscore.aspx?id=3474&path=

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/iwu-men-surpass-school-scoring-mark-in-up-tempo-win/article_395f0305-4aa1-5dba-be05-3210e28a1842.html


* Trevor Seibring: 27 pts, 4 reb
* Ryan Coyle: 22 pts, 7 reb, 4 assists
* Jaylen Beasley: 17 pts, 6 reb
* Andy Stempel: 16 pts, 9 reb, 5 assists
* Brady Rose: 15 pts, 8 assists
* Colin Bonnett: 14 pts, 5 reb
* Alec Bausch: 11 pts, 6 reb

IWU: 51-74 FG (.689), 12-27 3-point (.444)

Rebounds: IWU 54 GC 33

IWU set a new school record for points in a game, eclipsing the 132 vs Grinnell in the March 1, 2001 NCAA tourney game at the Shirk Center.

[Titan Q]

From Lisle...

Benedictine 76
Wheaton 61

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

IWU up on Greenville at the half, 78-54

So is Greenville running The System now or are they just playing really aggressive defense?

[Titan Q]

IWU up on Greenville at the half, 78-54

So is Greenville running The System now or are they just playing really aggressive defense?

They are running The System...full scale.

[GoPerry]

Wheaton goes down to BenU, 76-61.

I would have to say this went fairly according to script with few surprises on the stat sheet.   Coach Schauer certainly has some talent but it's all at the 1-2-3 positions with the exception of Michael Berg who is a 3/4 playing 5.  Therefore there's little defensive answer for a team with any size and bulk.  Luke Johnson, Tim Reamer and Adam Reynolds pretty much had their way down on the block.  I thought Berg did a decent job on Johnson but the others were being defended by a wing player like Murad Dillard, Trae Masten or Ricky Samuelson.  Wheaton was -15 in rebounding, 43-28, and I'm pretty sure points in the paint was very lopsided the Eagles way. 

Offensively the Thunder basically run a 3 or 4 guard offense.  Berg still does post up some and while I think he's better than last year, it's still not his most effective area of comfort.  Dillard could be quite a handful down low if he can develop his skills just a bit more.  Otherwise, everything else is from the perimeter.  They have weapons- Masten can simply fill it up from the 3 point arc, Samuelson is a good outside shooter, Teuscher also.  But you are relying on your team to shoot 48-50% or higher from the field in order to have a chance at winning and that is a tall order night in and night out. 

Tahron Harvey had a nice game for BenU while Blasczcyk was just cold all night.  They come at you with a very balanced attack.  Based on last night's game, they are entirely legit to be among the NACC favorites and perhaps deserving of some ORV, but I don't see them beating EC next week.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

IWU up on Greenville at the half, 78-54

So is Greenville running The System now or are they just playing really aggressive defense?

They are running The System...full scale.

I was wondering because the numbers don't look like System numbers.  Perhaps they're not doing it well yet.  I was surprised by how many 3s IWU took.  Usually system opponent take the open layups (which they also got a lot of).  I'll have to keep my eyes on the Greenville boxscores to see if they improve their discipline, as it were, over time.

[hopefan]

IWU up on Greenville at the half, 78-54

So is Greenville running The System now or are they just playing really aggressive defense?

They are running The System...full scale.

I was wondering because the numbers don't look like System numbers.  Perhaps they're not doing it well yet.  I was surprised by how many 3s IWU took.  Usually system opponent take the open layups (which they also got a lot of).  I'll have to keep my eyes on the Greenville boxscores to see if they improve their discipline, as it were, over time.

First game... they're learning....note IWU's 3 big men combined for over 60 points, they were getting the layups... the threes happened because IWU is disciplined, reversed the ball so well that GC just couldn't catch up... Per what I wrote in the SLIAC room, I think SLIAC level teams will have a much more difficult time with it than a team like IWU.

[Mr. Ypsi]

IWU up on Greenville at the half, 78-54

So is Greenville running The System now or are they just playing really aggressive defense?

They are running The System...full scale.

I was wondering because the numbers don't look like System numbers.  Perhaps they're not doing it well yet.  I was surprised by how many 3s IWU took.  Usually system opponent take the open layups (which they also got a lot of).  I'll have to keep my eyes on the Greenville boxscores to see if they improve their discipline, as it were, over time.

First game... they're learning....note IWU's 3 big men combined for over 60 points, they were getting the layups... the threes happened because IWU is disciplined, reversed the ball so well that GC just couldn't catch up... Per what I wrote in the SLIAC room, I think SLIAC level teams will have a much more difficult time with it than a team like IWU.

Even Grinnell has found that to be true.  The System has led to a fair amount of success in their conference; not so much in the national tourney (IWU's previous highest score was in a tourney game against Grinnell: 132).

[John Gleich]

I was wondering because the numbers don't look like System numbers.  Perhaps they're not doing it well yet.  I was surprised by how many 3s IWU took.  Usually system opponent take the open layups (which they also got a lot of).  I'll have to keep my eyes on the Greenville boxscores to see if they improve their discipline, as it were, over time.

First game... they're learning....note IWU's 3 big men combined for over 60 points, they were getting the layups... the threes happened because IWU is disciplined, reversed the ball so well that GC just couldn't catch up... Per what I wrote in the SLIAC room, I think SLIAC level teams will have a much more difficult time with it than a team like IWU.

You make some really good points here hopefan.

An up-tempo team (in general) is trying to speed you up. For undisciplined and impatient teams, this means that they rush into the plays that the defense wants them to make... which ultimately is a mistake for the offense and leads to turnovers.

On the other hand, a disciplined and patient team (as well as a skilled team at handling the ball) can absorb the pressure and spread the ball around. They can make the extra pass (or two) to open players... but they also excel at taking what the defense makes them take.

Sometimes that's a quick layup. Sometimes it's an open jump shot. And the thing about it is, there's a decent chance that there WILL be open looks against a team that gambles so much on defense.

The system takes up-tempo and makes it look pedantic. On top of that, it was (by all accounts from the Pantagraph story) Greenville's first go after catching the Systemic bug.

That might just push them forward in the SLIAC... but it (generally) isn't going to work against a top tier team from a solid conference.

[iwumichigander]

I was wondering because the numbers don't look like System numbers.  Perhaps they're not doing it well yet.  I was surprised by how many 3s IWU took.  Usually system opponent take the open layups (which they also got a lot of).  I'll have to keep my eyes on the Greenville boxscores to see if they improve their discipline, as it were, over time.

First game... they're learning....note IWU's 3 big men combined for over 60 points, they were getting the layups... the threes happened because IWU is disciplined, reversed the ball so well that GC just couldn't catch up... Per what I wrote in the SLIAC room, I think SLIAC level teams will have a much more difficult time with it than a team like IWU.

You make some really good points here hopefan.

An up-tempo team (in general) is trying to speed you up. For undisciplined and impatient teams, this means that they rush into the plays that the defense wants them to make... which ultimately is a mistake for the offense and leads to turnovers.

On the other hand, a disciplined and patient team (as well as a skilled team at handling the ball) can absorb the pressure and spread the ball around. They can make the extra pass (or two) to open players... but they also excel at taking what the defense makes them take.

Sometimes that's a quick layup. Sometimes it's an open jump shot. And the thing about it is, there's a decent chance that there WILL be open looks against a team that gambles so much on defense.

The system takes up-tempo and makes it look pedantic. On top of that, it was (by all accounts from the Pantagraph story) Greenville's first go after catching the Systemic bug.

That might just push them forward in the SLIAC... but it (generally) isn't going to work against a top tier team from a solid conference.

A couple of observations:
IWU first hint that Greenville was running the system - watching the JV game.  So, IWU had no prep time for the "system" other than quick coaching right before the game started and at half time.  Coach Rose said in his post game comments that it basically turned into a "players game" with little plays called from the bench.

Greenville has the speed, quickness and talent to run the system.  They have several really good players on the team.  No "bigs" with tallest players listed at 6' 4" which might be a "stretch"

The officials "let them play" if for no other reason than for the officials to have enough oxygen to run up and down the court as the game turned into a a race.  It might have been a long drive home last night!

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

IWU up on Greenville at the half, 78-54

So is Greenville running The System now or are they just playing really aggressive defense?

They are running The System...full scale.

I was wondering because the numbers don't look like System numbers.  Perhaps they're not doing it well yet.  I was surprised by how many 3s IWU took.  Usually system opponent take the open layups (which they also got a lot of).  I'll have to keep my eyes on the Greenville boxscores to see if they improve their discipline, as it were, over time.

Well, let's be honest... the System is what a team wants to make of it based on talent on the team and depth. The System of Loyola Marymount hey-day is not the same System run by Grinnell. The System North Central women use is not the same as those two squads. The System is a formula and a mentality, but coaches will adapt it to their teams and their abilities. I believe even Coach Arseneault will tell you he has adjusted his System during his time based on the squad he has.

Sometimes looking at a box score doesn't truly indicate what aspects of the System are being utilized. There is also the point already raised of this being a somewhat "new" System squad who is probably getting used to it.

As for IWU not knowing about the System being used... looks like the cat is out of the bag for everyone else this season. LOL Thanks, IWU!

[AppletonRocks]

Welcome to the 2015-16 season...game on!

I see Benedictine being a challenge for Wesleyan in 2015. 

[Gregory Sager]

I was wondering because the numbers don't look like System numbers.  Perhaps they're not doing it well yet.  I was surprised by how many 3s IWU took.  Usually system opponent take the open layups (which they also got a lot of).  I'll have to keep my eyes on the Greenville boxscores to see if they improve their discipline, as it were, over time.

First game... they're learning....note IWU's 3 big men combined for over 60 points, they were getting the layups... the threes happened because IWU is disciplined, reversed the ball so well that GC just couldn't catch up... Per what I wrote in the SLIAC room, I think SLIAC level teams will have a much more difficult time with it than a team like IWU.

You make some really good points here hopefan.

An up-tempo team (in general) is trying to speed you up. For undisciplined and impatient teams, this means that they rush into the plays that the defense wants them to make... which ultimately is a mistake for the offense and leads to turnovers.

On the other hand, a disciplined and patient team (as well as a skilled team at handling the ball) can absorb the pressure and spread the ball around. They can make the extra pass (or two) to open players... but they also excel at taking what the defense makes them take.

Sometimes that's a quick layup. Sometimes it's an open jump shot. And the thing about it is, there's a decent chance that there WILL be open looks against a team that gambles so much on defense.

Good points, John.

The system takes up-tempo and makes it look pedantic. On top of that, it was (by all accounts from the Pantagraph story) Greenville's first go after catching the Systemic bug.

The learning curve is fairly steep for teams adopting the Arseneault System, which means that Greenville's gonna take some lumps even when it isn't playing a CCIW-quality team. Those of us who follow CCIW women's basketball know this well, because we've watched North Central employ the System over the past three seasons. Before NCC head coach Michelle Roof installed it in 2012-13, the Cardinals were a really bad team (albeit with talented freshmen). That freshmen-dominated team morphed into a sophomore-dominated System team the next year that had a zillion freshmen who had obviously been wooed to NCC because of the promise of immediate action playing fun, uptempo basketball. Record-wise, the Cards were better that first System year than they had been, but that was more a function of the inability of opponents to prepare for it (AFAIK, no other midwestern D3 women's basketball teams use the System) than anything else. The truth is, the Cardinals were constantly bumping into each other, losing the ball because they were moving too fast, setting world records for airballs, etc. To watch Michelle Roof's Cardinals (who made the D3 tourney last year) run the System now as compared to how they ran it when she installed it three seasons ago is like night and day.

Greenville fans are going to have to be patient.

That might just push them forward in the SLIAC... but it (generally) isn't going to work against a top tier team from a solid conference.

Yep. As Chuck alluded, that's basically a System truism. While the System has its merits, it's simply not going to be enough of an equalizer if there's a significant talent disparity working against the System team.

Greenville has the speed, quickness and talent to run the system.  They have several really good players on the team.  No "bigs" with tallest players listed at 6' 4" which might be a "stretch"

Depth is as important a consideration for the System as speed, quickness, and talent. In the end, it's as much about inflicting weariness (both physically and mentally) upon the opponent by the constant use of fresh legs as it is about anything else. I noticed that the Panthers used 16 players last night in their System debut, ten of whom played double-digit minutes. That sounds about right, although I wouldn't be surprised if up to a dozen players per night end up seeing double-digit minutes.

Height's not really that big of an issue in the System. It's all about quickness, jacking rapid-fire trey attempts, chasing after long offensive rebounds, and a high-octane full-court press. Besides, the SLIAC is not a big man's league by CCIW standards; it's not unusual to see 6'3 or 6'4 guys successfully prowling the paint in that league.

The officials "let them play" if for no other reason than for the officials to have enough oxygen to run up and down the court as the game turned into a a race.  It might have been a long drive home last night!

Officials "letting them play" is something that System coaches bank on, because, as Ripon, St. Norbert, Monmouth, etc., fans will tell you, Grinnell fouls at least once or twice on every defensive sequence, whether the whistle blows or not.

Well, let's be honest... the System is what a team wants to make of it based on talent on the team and depth. The System of Loyola Marymount hey-day is not the same System run by Grinnell. The System North Central women use is not the same as those two squads.

Well, yes and no. What Paul Westhead did at LMU with Hank Gathers, Bo Kimble, and Per Stumer back in the day was really a different creature altogether. What Michelle Roof employs at North Central is clearly the Arseneault System, and, since at least a couple of the people who watched the GC @ IWU game last night and then posted here have seen either the Grinnell men or the North Central women play, it's obvious that Greenville head coach George Barber has been buying Dave Arseneault's books and DVDs. (Ironically, one of Greenville's starters last night is the older brother of one of IWU's women's basketball starters.)

The System is a formula and a mentality, but coaches will adapt it to their teams and their abilities. I believe even Coach Arseneault will tell you he has adjusted his System during his time based on the squad he has.

Very true, and I've watched Michelle Roof tweak it from year to year as well. It really comes down to personnel, with the most basic changes being the distribution of minutes, shooting assignments, and the designation of specific personnel to use in crunch-time situations outside of the normal five-player shifts.

Sometimes looking at a box score doesn't truly indicate what aspects of the System are being utilized. There is also the point already raised of this being a somewhat "new" System squad who is probably getting used to it.

True and true, although you can usually deduce how the coach has tweaked the system by looking at minutes played, shots taken, and the identification of players in the PBP at the end of a close game.

[Titan Q]

Very nice article on a great human being - Edgar Alsene.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/columnists/kindred/kindred-alsene-earns-place-among-iwu-s-elite/article_3dee2715-f372-5d92-9ccd-50fd8cb05479.html

[Mr. Ypsi]

Very nice article on a great human being - Edgar Alsene.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/columnists/kindred/kindred-alsene-earns-place-among-iwu-s-elite/article_3dee2715-f372-5d92-9ccd-50fd8cb05479.html

Cool!  I was of course aware of the amazing continuity of coaches in the major sports at IWU, but I didn't realize we have only had two SID's over the past fifty years!  IWU must be a pretty good place to work.