MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[CCIW >]

Not much to say about last nights game. Was a MUST win for Augie and they came out ready to play.
Game was 100% over when Sorenson picked up his second foul in, what, 3 mins to start the game? Neither of which were fouls but forced him to sit for too long in the first half. Straughter may be the first person i have ever seen to take a charge while on offense... His back hit the floor before the game even started. I will give Augie some credit tho, was a well designed play to give the NCC big an early foul.

There is three things you can guarentee in life: Death, Taxes, and ZERO sportsmanship from Grey Giovanni. Tough to lose to a guy that acts that way on the sidelines. I once had a coach in Middle School that jumped around and cried like that, I can vividly remember asking my father if I could quit the team and try a different sport because of it. Makes me so uncomfortable and embarrassed to be around, luckily my father agreed. Not sure how the players feel about his behavior, but i guess everyone has different feelings and priorities. 

Must win Saturday vs IWU. NCC won't make the NCAA Tourney if they get the 4 seed in the tourney. Same most likely goes for IWU

You may not like it, but Giovanni sure doesn't seem to have a tough time recruiting quality players/young men to come and play for him at Augie.  If you've never seen someone take a charge while on offense, then you haven't seen many games.  Not saying it happens every game, but it certainly is not that unusual.  I'm glad you can give Augie some credit for that one play and not that fact that they came out an dominated NCC to the tune of building a 33-2 lead.  You're right, it just must have been that one play and Sorenson getting two (according to you) phantom fouls that decided the outcome of this game.  Did you mention something about crying in your post?

I can guarantee you i don't cry about Division 3 basketball. I was not crying in my post nor did i imply that i was upset with the outcome, i was simply stating a 100% fact. Sorenson exited when the game was pretty even and standard, while out, the game got out of reach. And don't give Augie that much credit bud, NCC missed wide open shot after wide open shot after wide open shot. It can happen to any team.

If you think the score would have been the same with Sorenson out there, you are crazy. Him having to sit was absolutely the deciding factor of the game. He only played 15 minutes... That is almost half of what he usually plays (28 Minutes).

[sac]

Not much to say about last nights game. Was a MUST win for Augie and they came out ready to play.
Game was 100% over when Sorenson picked up his second foul in, what, 3 mins to start the game? Neither of which were fouls but forced him to sit for too long in the first half. Straughter may be the first person i have ever seen to take a charge while on offense... His back hit the floor before the game even started. I will give Augie some credit tho, was a well designed play to give the NCC big an early foul.

There is three things you can guarentee in life: Death, Taxes, and ZERO sportsmanship from Grey Giovanni. Tough to lose to a guy that acts that way on the sidelines. I once had a coach in Middle School that jumped around and cried like that, I can vividly remember asking my father if I could quit the team and try a different sport because of it. Makes me so uncomfortable and embarrassed to be around, luckily my father agreed. Not sure how the players feel about his behavior, but i guess everyone has different feelings and priorities. 

Must win Saturday vs IWU. NCC won't make the NCAA Tourney if they get the 4 seed in the tourney. Same most likely goes for IWU

You may not like it, but Giovanni sure doesn't seem to have a tough time recruiting quality players/young men to come and play for him at Augie.  If you've never seen someone take a charge while on offense, then you haven't seen many games.  Not saying it happens every game, but it certainly is not that unusual.  I'm glad you can give Augie some credit for that one play and not that fact that they came out an dominated NCC to the tune of building a 33-2 lead.  You're right, it just must have been that one play and Sorenson getting two (according to you) phantom fouls that decided the outcome of this game.  Did you mention something about crying in your post?

I can guarantee you i don't cry about Division 3 basketball. I was not crying in my post nor did i imply that i was upset with the outcome, i was simply stating a 100% fact. Sorenson exited when the game was pretty even and standard, while out, the game got out of reach. And don't give Augie that much credit bud, NCC missed wide open shot after wide open shot after wide open shot. It can happen to any team.

If you think the score would have been the same with Sorenson out there, you are crazy. Him having to sit was absolutely the deciding factor of the game. He only played 15 minutes... That is almost half of what he usually plays (28 Minutes).

Sorenson exited at 14:12 of the first half.   Augustana 12  North Central 2

[iwumichigander]

IWUM, yes, always some things that can be improved, esp. that FT %.  Agree on that one.  But, a road win in the CCIW, esp. at the Griz, is always welcome, always good.   Hope this edition of the Titans continues to gel, improve and really gives the top teams -- EC and AC -- a run for their money.

Don't really understand how NCC played so poorly in the first half vs. Augie Doggies.  Curious minds wish to know?

'70

We can agree on the road win - especially at the Griz!  I am encourage by what the team is doing.

[iwumichigander]

Going to disagree with you and Q as 16 turnovers, 47.1% FT and a little ugly is an OK game.  I would not call it good or playing very well but that is just me.

For me, when you go on the road and shoot 56.9%, hold the other team to 28.1%, and win by 22 that's playing "really well." 

Keep it simple, Mich.

Yeah, I know, the turnovers and FT% always bugs me. 

[mwunder]

Not much to say about last nights game. Was a MUST win for Augie and they came out ready to play.
Game was 100% over when Sorenson picked up his second foul in, what, 3 mins to start the game? Neither of which were fouls but forced him to sit for too long in the first half. Straughter may be the first person i have ever seen to take a charge while on offense... His back hit the floor before the game even started. I will give Augie some credit tho, was a well designed play to give the NCC big an early foul.

There is three things you can guarentee in life: Death, Taxes, and ZERO sportsmanship from Grey Giovanni. Tough to lose to a guy that acts that way on the sidelines. I once had a coach in Middle School that jumped around and cried like that, I can vividly remember asking my father if I could quit the team and try a different sport because of it. Makes me so uncomfortable and embarrassed to be around, luckily my father agreed. Not sure how the players feel about his behavior, but i guess everyone has different feelings and priorities. 

Must win Saturday vs IWU. NCC won't make the NCAA Tourney if they get the 4 seed in the tourney. Same most likely goes for IWU

You may not like it, but Giovanni sure doesn't seem to have a tough time recruiting quality players/young men to come and play for him at Augie.  If you've never seen someone take a charge while on offense, then you haven't seen many games.  Not saying it happens every game, but it certainly is not that unusual.  I'm glad you can give Augie some credit for that one play and not that fact that they came out an dominated NCC to the tune of building a 33-2 lead.  You're right, it just must have been that one play and Sorenson getting two (according to you) phantom fouls that decided the outcome of this game.  Did you mention something about crying in your post?

I can guarantee you i don't cry about Division 3 basketball. I was not crying in my post nor did i imply that i was upset with the outcome, i was simply stating a 100% fact. Sorenson exited when the game was pretty even and standard, while out, the game got out of reach. And don't give Augie that much credit bud, NCC missed wide open shot after wide open shot after wide open shot. It can happen to any team.

If you think the score would have been the same with Sorenson out there, you are crazy. Him having to sit was absolutely the deciding factor of the game. He only played 15 minutes... That is almost half of what he usually plays (28 Minutes).

Sorenson exited at 14:12 of the first half.   Augustana 12  North Central 2

Augie then went on an 8-0 run over the next 4 minutes plus until Sorenson checked back into the game at 9:53.  Augie then went on a 10-0 run with him back in the game until he checked out at 5:11.  Doesn't seem to me like he made much of a difference one way or the other.  A buzzsaw is a buzzsaw.

[iwumichigander]

While Wheaton had several players taller than any North Park starter, including their leading scorer, I do not recall a single time when the SAD posted a player down low. Wheaton displayed zero inside game last night.  They did not even try to do so, and North Park should have won by a much larger margin.  If NP's goal is to qualify for the CCIW tourney, a road victory at Professor Hawkin's current employer is necessary and certainly attainable.

Michael Berg is probably the closest to a post guy on SAD.  He is a wing player IMHO.  And, Wheaton can not really afford Berg getting in foul trouble trying to mix it up in the paint.

[hopefan]

Dang, noon the next day the Wheaton - North Park score still not on D3hoops scoreboard.. come on Greg, yell at someone!!

Yes, I know it can be found elsewhere

[Gregory Sager]

North Park 82
Wheaton 71

Juwan Henry: 29 pts, 3:0 a:to, 3 stls
Jordan Robinson: 19 pts, 19 rebs, 4 blks
Colin Lake: 16 pts
T.J. Cobbs: 7 rebs, 3 stls

Ricky Samuelson: 21 pts
Jonathan Berntsen: 16 pts
Michael Berg: 13 pts
Troy Morrison: 8 rebs
Joel Smith: 6 rebs, 3 stls

Mark's right that NPU should've romped in this three-legged dog of a basketball game, but the Vikings had an inexplicable case of the yips when it came to controlling the ball. NPU came into the game leading the league in ball protection, averaging barely ten turnovers per game, and yet the Vikes found a way to cough it up 20 times last night -- and it wasn't because of Wheaton, either. The Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance only had three steals on the night, and it wasn't as though they pressured the Vikings into making a lot of bad passes, either. The Vikings simply had a ridiculous night of traveling calls (typically when there was nary an orange jersey within ten feet of the ballhandler), carries, oops! passes, etc. Thankfully, Wheaton was unable to really take too much advantage of them and never really threatened in this game, so the uncharacteristic turnover hijinks of the Vikes remained comical to watch, more or less. Nevertheless, this one had all the taste of what should've been a blowout.

Juwan Henry did what Juwan Henry does, and last night he did it very efficiently, to the tune of 10-16 from the field. He also canned both of his trey attempts. Wheaton most certainly didn't have a guard who could stay in front of him, and you didn't have to tell that twice to Juwan. He walked into the gym last night already in full light-it-up mode. Colin Lake hit a number of big shots, especially after Henry had to sit out a big chunk of the second half with four fouls. It was certainly good to see the sophomore from Michigan pick it up when the team's leading offensive dynamo had to sit.

But Jordan Robinson played a really remarkable game. This marked the second time this season that he's pulled down 19 rebounds, and I'm pretty sure that he's going to hit the 20 mark at some point. No Viking has pulled down 20 rebounds in a game since Michael Starks did it against St. Xavier in 1987-88. Oddly enough, the last Viking to do so in a CCIW game, Dan Mulkerin, was one of three North Park championship ring owners who were in attendance last night (he had 22 against Wheaton in a 1986-87 game). Robinson's game wasn't perfect -- he fouled out with three minutes to go, didn't shoot particularly well, and was one of the primary offenders in terms of unforced turnovers -- but, man, can that kid rebound. He's now at 12.5 rpg in CCIW play, a full three boards per game better than the next guy on the leaderboard, and in overall play he's at 11.6, two and a half rebounds better than second-place Michael Berg. And bear in mind that Robinson's listed height of 6'3 is a definite overstatement. As talented as he is, he simply works harder than any other player on the floor. In fact, I'm having a hard time recalling any CCIW player I've ever seen who worked harder. The inspirational-posters folks need to swap out the rock climber in this pic:



... and replace it with a pic of Jordan Robinson hauling in a rebound.

Ugly or not, a win's a win -- and NPU will take it. Now it's on to Saturday's trip to beautiful downtown Decatur and a date with the enduring mystery that is Millikin men's basketball.

[Gregory Sager]

Dang, noon the next day the Wheaton - North Park score still not on D3hoops scoreboard.. come on Greg, yell at someone!!

Sure it is. It's also listed on the NPU and Wheaton team pages. There's no link for the box score, which I don't understand (both the NPU and Wheaton sites have the box posted), but the score's there.

[Gregory Sager]

While Wheaton had several players taller than any North Park starter, including their leading scorer, I do not recall a single time when the SAD posted a player down low. Wheaton displayed zero inside game last night.  They did not even try to do so, and North Park should have won by a much larger margin.  If NP's goal is to qualify for the CCIW tourney, a road victory at Professor Hawkin's current employer is necessary and certainly attainable.

Michael Berg is probably the closest to a post guy on SAD.  He is a wing player IMHO.  And, Wheaton can not really afford Berg getting in foul trouble trying to mix it up in the paint.

Mark may have missed it when he was chatting with the NPC basketball alumni who were in the stands last night , but Berg did post up a few times. Thing is, Berg wasn't effective with his back to the basket at all, in spite of the fact that neither Michael Hutchinson nor Darius Brown is a decent size match for him in the blocks. The point iwumich made about foul trouble with regard to Berg is on target -- the guy's fouled out of four games already this season -- but, as a converted wing who is now a senior, Berg's never going to be a highly-polished post player, anyway. I'm impressed that he's come as far as he has in terms of his inside game. He only had three rebounds last night, though, and his absence on the boards only made things worse for Wheaton. In spite of the fact that he leads the team in scoring, I don't think he's the SAD's primary threat; I think it's Ricky Samuelson, who is a very strong outside shooter with a lightning-quick release.

The wheels have really fallen off for Wheaton. I think that Trae Masten and Troy Morrison are good freshman pickups, but they don't have that immediate-star quality that previous Wheaton studs like Raymond, McCrary, Peters, and Teuscher had. Masten and Morrison look like players who could be really good a couple of seasons from now. Wheaton's not getting those immediate-star guys anymore, and, beyond lacking the bell cow who could carry the team in good times or bad, the program as a whole seems to be lacking the size and athleticism it used to have. I don't really understand why, because I can't fathom that there's a coach in all of D3 who is a better salesman for his school than Mike Schauer. But he's just not getting the same quality of recruits that he (and Bill Harris before him) used to get.

I'm just sad that last night's game had to be played in a virtually empty gym, since NPU doesn't start classes until next week. The thought of the North Park student body being deprived of the opportunity to witness the Vikings spank Wheaton borders on the tragic.

[hopefan]

Dang, noon the next day the Wheaton - North Park score still not on D3hoops scoreboard.. come on Greg, yell at someone!!

Sure it is. It's also listed on the NPU and Wheaton team pages. There's no link for the box score, which I don't understand (both the NPU and Wheaton sites have the box posted), but the score's there.

I download the scores daily into a spreadsheet... usually early, today late... a little after noon.. my download shows it was still reading no score, 8:00 start time, not score with Final.....It went up between then and when you posted....

[GoPerry]

While Wheaton had several players taller than any North Park starter, including their leading scorer, I do not recall a single time when the SAD posted a player down low. Wheaton displayed zero inside game last night.  They did not even try to do so, and North Park should have won by a much larger margin.  If NP's goal is to qualify for the CCIW tourney, a road victory at Professor Hawkin's current employer is necessary and certainly attainable.

Michael Berg is probably the closest to a post guy on SAD.  He is a wing player IMHO.  And, Wheaton can not really afford Berg getting in foul trouble trying to mix it up in the paint.

Mark may have missed it when he was chatting with the NPC basketball alumni who were in the stands last night , but Berg did post up a few times. Thing is, Berg wasn't effective with his back to the basket at all, in spite of the fact that neither Michael Hutchinson nor Darius Brown is a decent size match for him in the blocks. The point iwumich made about foul trouble with regard to Berg is on target -- the guy's fouled out of four games already this season -- but, as a converted wing who is now a senior, Berg's never going to be a highly-polished post player, anyway. I'm impressed that he's come as far as he has in terms of his inside game. He only had three rebounds last night, though, and his absence on the boards only made things worse for Wheaton. In spite of the fact that he leads the team in scoring, I don't think he's the SAD's primary threat; I think it's Ricky Samuelson, who is a very strong outside shooter with a lightning-quick release.

I was not able to see the game unfortunately (I'd like to if it's OnDemand someplace?) but this is not a huge surprise given the common knowledge, and abundant discussion on this board, that WC is very lacking in back to the basket presence.  As GS noted, Berg started his freshman year as a #3/#4 forward but has tried to develop a usable inside game since the Thunder had nobody else.  He's better than he was on that score but still not his natural tendency.  Other players with height (6'-6" Trae Masten, 6'8" Mark Champion) are purely outside wing players whose main weapon is the 3 point arc although Masten has shown some willingness to cut to the basket lately. 

I agree that Samuelson is a gifted shooter and is no doubt one of Wheaton's primary weapons.  But I don't know that other teams see him as a "threat" in the classic sense.  He's a spot up shooter with a quick release coming off screens but he's not one who creates his own shot and therefore he's limited and easily guardable with some hustle.  I actually don't think there's anyone in the lineup that is singularly scary to opposing coaches.  But it doesn't mean they can't win some games as a team.

By the way, NPU will have to do a heck of alot more than win at King Arena if they want to make their first conf tourney.

The wheels have really fallen off for Wheaton. I think that Trae Masten and Troy Morrison are good freshman pickups, but they don't have that immediate-star quality that previous Wheaton studs like Raymond, McCrary, Peters, and Teuscher had. Masten and Morrison look like players who could be really good a couple of seasons from now. Wheaton's not getting those immediate-star guys anymore, and, beyond lacking the bell cow who could carry the team in good times or bad, the program as a whole seems to be lacking the size and athleticism it used to have. I don't really understand why, because I can't fathom that there's a coach in all of D3 who is a better salesman for his school than Mike Schauer. But he's just not getting the same quality of recruits that he (and Bill Harris before him) used to get.

No, I'm not getting the sense that any of these freshman are in the MOP candidate Raymond-McCrary-Peters-B Teuscher ilk.  And it's true that WC fans have gotten used to having at least one player like that on the roster for practically 10 years running so these last 2 seasons have been pretty tough. Elmhurst didn't sport any of those sorts of players 3 seasons ago either(2-12 CCIW).  But Kyle Wuest looks pretty good now. The Thunder are playing lots of freshman and sophmores and the results reflect that.  Hopefully Coach Schauer can forge this crew into something competitive over the next 2 seasons with some help from a few more solid recruits.

I still feel confident that they'll pull off a surprise or 2 this year, or at least I'm hoping!

[veterancciwfan]

IWU played their best game of season at MU. Man defense was much more intense. Huge confidence builder for Mark Falotico, a strong 6"1" guard who has classic point guard skills. He can take ball to hoop and finish or dish off. He and Rose will be a very good guard duo (that's Latin for 2) for next 2 years, make it 3 years if Rose is granted medical redshirt status this season.

FYI: MU is not located in downtown Decatur. Actually MU's location west of downtown is in one of the better areas of Decatur. I have some sympathy for Millikin, which as late as the mid 1980s, was a fairly strong academic institution, known nationwide for its excellent music program. But Decatur got a lot of bad press and Millikin suffered the consequences. Matt Nadelhoffer, a terrific hire, is trying his best to turn things around. For the overall health of CCIW b'ball, I hope he gets the job done just as Tom Slyder has for NPU.

Will be interesting to see how NCC responds at Shirk Saturday after suffering what could have been a bit of a blow to team confidence last night in Rock Island. But a loss is just an excuse to learn from it and improve and I expect the game will be decided in the last minute. Two good fairly young teams with excellent coaches.

[iwu70]

I think this game of IWU vs. NCC at the Shirk this weekend is a very key game for the Titans' CCIW season.  Gotta have this one.  I'd love to see the Titans go 2-0 at home now, but doubt the Titans presently can beat Augie, even at home.  Gotta beat NCC on Saturday night.

Go TITANS!

IWU'70

[markerickson]

Yes, SAD's Samuelson has a shooter's stroke.  Yes, NP's Robinson is a very good rebounder.  He is fundamentally sound...box out and get the ball at the your personal highest (which is something undersized Dennis "Worm" Rodman was always able to do).  As I've said previously, Robinson is in rare company these days by knowing how to use a pivot foot down low.  Berg really hacked Robinson a lot last night, and also "chatted" quite a bit during stoppages.