MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Augie6]

Not much to say about last nights game. Was a MUST win for Augie and they came out ready to play.
Game was 100% over when Sorenson picked up his second foul in, what, 3 mins to start the game? Neither of which were fouls but forced him to sit for too long in the first half. Straughter may be the first person i have ever seen to take a charge while on offense... His back hit the floor before the game even started. I will give Augie some credit tho, was a well designed play to give the NCC big an early foul.

There is three things you can guarentee in life: Death, Taxes, and ZERO sportsmanship from Grey Giovanni. Tough to lose to a guy that acts that way on the sidelines. I once had a coach in Middle School that jumped around and cried like that, I can vividly remember asking my father if I could quit the team and try a different sport because of it. Makes me so uncomfortable and embarrassed to be around, luckily my father agreed. Not sure how the players feel about his behavior, but i guess everyone has different feelings and priorities. 

Must win Saturday vs IWU. NCC won't make the NCAA Tourney if they get the 4 seed in the tourney. Same most likely goes for IWU

You may not like it, but Giovanni sure doesn't seem to have a tough time recruiting quality players/young men to come and play for him at Augie.  If you've never seen someone take a charge while on offense, then you haven't seen many games.  Not saying it happens every game, but it certainly is not that unusual.  I'm glad you can give Augie some credit for that one play and not that fact that they came out an dominated NCC to the tune of building a 33-2 lead.  You're right, it just must have been that one play and Sorenson getting two (according to you) phantom fouls that decided the outcome of this game.  Did you mention something about crying in your post?

I can guarantee you i don't cry about Division 3 basketball. I was not crying in my post nor did i imply that i was upset with the outcome, i was simply stating a 100% fact. Sorenson exited when the game was pretty even and standard, while out, the game got out of reach. And don't give Augie that much credit bud, NCC missed wide open shot after wide open shot after wide open shot. It can happen to any team.

If you think the score would have been the same with Sorenson out there, you are crazy. Him having to sit was absolutely the deciding factor of the game. He only played 15 minutes... That is almost half of what he usually plays (28 Minutes).

Sorenson exited at 14:12 of the first half.   Augustana 12  North Central 2

Augie then went on an 8-0 run over the next 4 minutes plus until Sorenson checked back into the game at 9:53.  Augie then went on a 10-0 run with him back in the game until he checked out at 5:11.  Doesn't seem to me like he made much of a difference one way or the other.  A buzzsaw is a buzzsaw.

NCC,

So Augie outscores NCC 22-2 in the first half when Sorensen is in the game.  So I'm thinking your "100% fact" is probably a lot closer to 0%.  I may be "crazy", but I give credit to Augie for thoroughly beating NCC in yesterday's game.  They did it when Sorensen was on the floor and they did it when he wasn't.  You can look at the game however you would like to, bud, but your take on the game doesn't seem to line up with what most other people saw.   

[veterancciwfan]

Through games of Jan. 13, IWU ranked #14 in FG% at 49.5, one notch above Augustana.

[Mr. Ypsi]

IWU played their best game of season at MU. Man defense was much more intense. Huge confidence builder for Mark Falotico, a strong 6"1" guard who has classic point guard skills. He can take ball to hoop and finish or dish off. He and Rose will be a very good guard duo (that's Latin for 2) for next 2 years, make it 3 years if Rose is granted medical redshirt status this season.

FYI: MU is not located in downtown Decatur. Actually MU's location west of downtown is in one of the better areas of Decatur. I have some sympathy for Millikin, which as late as the mid 1980s, was a fairly strong academic institution, known nationwide for its excellent music program. But Decatur got a lot of bad press and Millikin suffered the consequences. Matt Nadelhoffer, a terrific hire, is trying his best to turn things around. For the overall health of CCIW b'ball, I hope he gets the job done just as Tom Slyder has for NPU.

Will be interesting to see how NCC responds at Shirk Saturday after suffering what could have been a bit of a blow to team confidence last night in Rock Island. But a loss is just an excuse to learn from it and improve and I expect the game will be decided in the last minute. Two good fairly young teams with excellent coaches.

Agreed.  Back in my day (late sixties), Millikin was THE rival.  I still get nervous every time we face them in any sport (I sense that we are still THEIR #1 rival, even if that is not true for IWU).  I enjoyed my trips to Decatur to face them (either three or all four winters - Jesse Price was the real deal ), and kinda miss them being THE 'enemy'.  I suppose it is good that the CCIW has become more balanced (and rivalries vary depending upon who you're fighting THIS year), but (at least to a college kid) having A RIVAL was pretty cool.

Can't comment on Decatur - back in the day we just went and came home (we weren't rich! )  Haven't been back since.

[Pat Coleman]

Dang, noon the next day the Wheaton - North Park score still not on D3hoops scoreboard.. come on Greg, yell at someone!!

Sure it is. It's also listed on the NPU and Wheaton team pages. There's no link for the box score, which I don't understand (both the NPU and Wheaton sites have the box posted), but the score's there.

Greg, someone from one of the schools has to physically upload a file into our system for a box to display. I can go to NPU's site to grab an unreported score like I did yesterday but I can't magically generate a box score file.

[WUPHF]

A bit off-topic, but good for a laugh and something Wheaton fans must be used to.

People Are Complaining To The Wrong Wheaton College
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/complaints-wrong-wheaton-college_56991a10e4b0778f46f90d6e

[CCIW >]

Not much to say about last nights game. Was a MUST win for Augie and they came out ready to play.
Game was 100% over when Sorenson picked up his second foul in, what, 3 mins to start the game? Neither of which were fouls but forced him to sit for too long in the first half. Straughter may be the first person i have ever seen to take a charge while on offense... His back hit the floor before the game even started. I will give Augie some credit tho, was a well designed play to give the NCC big an early foul.

There is three things you can guarentee in life: Death, Taxes, and ZERO sportsmanship from Grey Giovanni. Tough to lose to a guy that acts that way on the sidelines. I once had a coach in Middle School that jumped around and cried like that, I can vividly remember asking my father if I could quit the team and try a different sport because of it. Makes me so uncomfortable and embarrassed to be around, luckily my father agreed. Not sure how the players feel about his behavior, but i guess everyone has different feelings and priorities. 

Must win Saturday vs IWU. NCC won't make the NCAA Tourney if they get the 4 seed in the tourney. Same most likely goes for IWU

You may not like it, but Giovanni sure doesn't seem to have a tough time recruiting quality players/young men to come and play for him at Augie.  If you've never seen someone take a charge while on offense, then you haven't seen many games.  Not saying it happens every game, but it certainly is not that unusual.  I'm glad you can give Augie some credit for that one play and not that fact that they came out an dominated NCC to the tune of building a 33-2 lead.  You're right, it just must have been that one play and Sorenson getting two (according to you) phantom fouls that decided the outcome of this game.  Did you mention something about crying in your post?

I can guarantee you i don't cry about Division 3 basketball. I was not crying in my post nor did i imply that i was upset with the outcome, i was simply stating a 100% fact. Sorenson exited when the game was pretty even and standard, while out, the game got out of reach. And don't give Augie that much credit bud, NCC missed wide open shot after wide open shot after wide open shot. It can happen to any team.

If you think the score would have been the same with Sorenson out there, you are crazy. Him having to sit was absolutely the deciding factor of the game. He only played 15 minutes... That is almost half of what he usually plays (28 Minutes).

Sorenson exited at 14:12 of the first half.   Augustana 12  North Central 2

Augie then went on an 8-0 run over the next 4 minutes plus until Sorenson checked back into the game at 9:53.  Augie then went on a 10-0 run with him back in the game until he checked out at 5:11.  Doesn't seem to me like he made much of a difference one way or the other.  A buzzsaw is a buzzsaw.

NCC,

So Augie outscores NCC 22-2 in the first half when Sorensen is in the game.  So I'm thinking your "100% fact" is probably a lot closer to 0%.  I may be "crazy", but I give credit to Augie for thoroughly beating NCC in yesterday's game.  They did it when Sorensen was on the floor and they did it when he wasn't.  You can look at the game however you would like to, bud, but your take on the game doesn't seem to line up with what most other people saw.

I think it is safe to say you have never played competitive basketball in your life... Playing with 2 fouls in the 1st drastically changes your mentality and the mentality of your opponent that is matched up against you (They becoming way more aggressive and try to bait you/take advantage of you, especially a team as smart as Augie).

For the player with 2 fouls on offense in the 1st half:  Every time you touch the ball in the post, you can not make an aggressive move, set solid and firm screens for your teammates, push off to gain some separation, or go for an offensive rebound. Drastically changes your ability to score and help the team.

For the player with 2 fouls on defense in the 1st half: You cant go for blocked shots, push or shove around screens being set on you, play strong defense verse your opponent, play effective help defense (if late to move), or even box out with the same intensity. Again, drastically changing your ability to defend or influence the game from a defensive perspective (defense leads to offense).

So just because he got back in the game in the first half, doesn't mean he was able to play the way NCC needed him to. Speaking without any bias at all, NCC's only chance vs a great opponent like Augie was to have Sorenson at his best, and doing what he has done almost every game this season... So yes, the 2 fouls were in fact a game changer, and were in fact the sole reason the game went the way it did.

[Titan Q]

IWU played their best game of season at MU. Man defense was much more intense. Huge confidence builder for Mark Falotico, a strong 6"1" guard who has classic point guard skills. He can take ball to hoop and finish or dish off. He and Rose will be a very good guard duo (that's Latin for 2) for next 2 years, make it 3 years if Rose is granted medical redshirt status this season.

This could be an outstanding backcourt for the Titans in years to come.  Both Falotico and Rose can handle it, shoot it (from the mid-range and 3), get to the basket, and defend.  I think it's fair to call both "combo guards", but Falotico is more 1 and Rose more 2.  Based on the skill sets I've observed, this just seems like the perfect guard combo to me.  Kind of a Ron Rose/Paul Petersen thing...with Brady being Pete and Falotico being Brady's dad.

I'm definitely excited about the thought of Falotico and Rose playing together down the road.

[Titan Q]

I think it is safe to say you have never played competitive basketball in your life... Playing with 2 fouls in the 1st drastically changes your mentality and the mentality of your opponent that is matched up against you (They becoming way more aggressive and try to bait you/take advantage of you, especially a team as smart as Augie).

For the player with 2 fouls on offense in the 1st half:  Every time you touch the ball in the post, you can not make an aggressive move, set solid and firm screens for your teammates, push off to gain some separation, or go for an offensive rebound. Drastically changes your ability to score and help the team.

For the player with 2 fouls on defense in the 1st half: You cant go for blocked shots, push or shove around screens being set on you, play strong defense verse your opponent, play effective help defense (if late to move), or even box out with the same intensity. Again, drastically changing your ability to defend or influence the game from a defensive perspective (defense leads to offense).

So just because he got back in the game in the first half, doesn't mean he was able to play the way NCC needed him to. Speaking without any bias at all, NCC's only chance vs a great opponent like Augie was to have Sorenson at his best, and doing what he has done almost every game this season... So yes, the 2 fouls were in fact a game changer, and were in fact the sole reason the game went the way it did.

The best thing to do when you get your ass kicked is just say, "We got our ass kicked" and move on to the next one.

[voxelmhurst]

A bit off-topic, but good for a laugh and something Wheaton fans must be used to.
People Are Complaining To The Wrong Wheaton College
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/complaints-wrong-wheaton-college_56991a10e4b0778f46f90d6e

This does make me laugh. This is not unlike the time, while I was working in bank operations, a customer called with a complaint and after 5 minutes of hilarious rambling, I had to tell him that he had called the wrong bank.

When visiting a grad program a few years ago, I had at least 3 people think I said "Amherst College" when I told them I went to "Elmhurst College". So funny to see people's reactions change so quickly after I had to correct them.

[Augie6]

Not much to say about last nights game. Was a MUST win for Augie and they came out ready to play.
Game was 100% over when Sorenson picked up his second foul in, what, 3 mins to start the game? Neither of which were fouls but forced him to sit for too long in the first half. Straughter may be the first person i have ever seen to take a charge while on offense... His back hit the floor before the game even started. I will give Augie some credit tho, was a well designed play to give the NCC big an early foul.

There is three things you can guarentee in life: Death, Taxes, and ZERO sportsmanship from Grey Giovanni. Tough to lose to a guy that acts that way on the sidelines. I once had a coach in Middle School that jumped around and cried like that, I can vividly remember asking my father if I could quit the team and try a different sport because of it. Makes me so uncomfortable and embarrassed to be around, luckily my father agreed. Not sure how the players feel about his behavior, but i guess everyone has different feelings and priorities. 

Must win Saturday vs IWU. NCC won't make the NCAA Tourney if they get the 4 seed in the tourney. Same most likely goes for IWU

You may not like it, but Giovanni sure doesn't seem to have a tough time recruiting quality players/young men to come and play for him at Augie.  If you've never seen someone take a charge while on offense, then you haven't seen many games.  Not saying it happens every game, but it certainly is not that unusual.  I'm glad you can give Augie some credit for that one play and not that fact that they came out an dominated NCC to the tune of building a 33-2 lead.  You're right, it just must have been that one play and Sorenson getting two (according to you) phantom fouls that decided the outcome of this game.  Did you mention something about crying in your post?

I can guarantee you i don't cry about Division 3 basketball. I was not crying in my post nor did i imply that i was upset with the outcome, i was simply stating a 100% fact. Sorenson exited when the game was pretty even and standard, while out, the game got out of reach. And don't give Augie that much credit bud, NCC missed wide open shot after wide open shot after wide open shot. It can happen to any team.

If you think the score would have been the same with Sorenson out there, you are crazy. Him having to sit was absolutely the deciding factor of the game. He only played 15 minutes... That is almost half of what he usually plays (28 Minutes).

Sorenson exited at 14:12 of the first half.   Augustana 12  North Central 2

Augie then went on an 8-0 run over the next 4 minutes plus until Sorenson checked back into the game at 9:53.  Augie then went on a 10-0 run with him back in the game until he checked out at 5:11.  Doesn't seem to me like he made much of a difference one way or the other.  A buzzsaw is a buzzsaw.

NCC,

So Augie outscores NCC 22-2 in the first half when Sorensen is in the game.  So I'm thinking your "100% fact" is probably a lot closer to 0%.  I may be "crazy", but I give credit to Augie for thoroughly beating NCC in yesterday's game.  They did it when Sorensen was on the floor and they did it when he wasn't.  You can look at the game however you would like to, bud, but your take on the game doesn't seem to line up with what most other people saw.

I think it is safe to say you have never played competitive basketball in your life... Playing with 2 fouls in the 1st drastically changes your mentality and the mentality of your opponent that is matched up against you (They becoming way more aggressive and try to bait you/take advantage of you, especially a team as smart as Augie).

For the player with 2 fouls on offense in the 1st half:  Every time you touch the ball in the post, you can not make an aggressive move, set solid and firm screens for your teammates, push off to gain some separation, or go for an offensive rebound. Drastically changes your ability to score and help the team.

For the player with 2 fouls on defense in the 1st half: You cant go for blocked shots, push or shove around screens being set on you, play strong defense verse your opponent, play effective help defense (if late to move), or even box out with the same intensity. Again, drastically changing your ability to defend or influence the game from a defensive perspective (defense leads to offense).

So just because he got back in the game in the first half, doesn't mean he was able to play the way NCC needed him to. Speaking without any bias at all, NCC's only chance vs a great opponent like Augie was to have Sorenson at his best, and doing what he has done almost every game this season... So yes, the 2 fouls were in fact a game changer, and were in fact the sole reason the game went the way it did.

NCC,

I have played plenty of competitive basketball in my life and I don't disagree with the statement you just posted.  I agree that playing with two fouls early in the game can change the way that player will play.  However, that is not the point you made in your earlier posts about the game.  You said and I quote,"I was simply stating a 100% fact. Sorenson exited when the game was pretty even and standard, while out, the game got out of reach".  As has been pointed out, that statement is not accurate.  So now you're saying the only reason NCC lost by 27 points is that Sorensen picked up 2 early fouls.  I think a lot of people would disagree with that and simply say that Augie was the much better team that night, with our without Sorensen on the floor and with or without Sorensen picking up two early fouls.   My guess is it will be a much different game when Augie plays NCC again, at NCC.  I (like most people) thought this game would have been much closer.  NCC just ran into a very good team who was ready to go that night.  If it gives you comfort to think that the only reason NCC lost is Sorensen picking up two early fouls, then more power to you.  I just don't think there are many others that would agree. 

[Gregory Sager]

FYI: MU is not located in downtown Decatur. Actually MU's location west of downtown is in one of the better areas of Decatur.

I guess that you missed my joke regarding "beautiful downtown Decatur":

http://wesclark.com/burbank/bdb.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/22/entertainment/la-et-ct-beautiful-downtown-burbank-20130322

(It's not the first time that my humor has been too obscure for the room, and my guess is that it won't be the last. )

And your phrase "one of the better areas of Decatur" is my new favorite example of the term "damn with faint praise".

Greg, someone from one of the schools has to physically upload a file into our system for a box to display. I can go to NPU's site to grab an unreported score like I did yesterday but I can't magically generate a box score file.

Thanks, Pat. I've passed this along to Kevin.

I think it is safe to say you have never played competitive basketball in your life... Playing with 2 fouls in the 1st drastically changes your mentality and the mentality of your opponent that is matched up against you (They becoming way more aggressive and try to bait you/take advantage of you, especially a team as smart as Augie).

For the player with 2 fouls on offense in the 1st half:  Every time you touch the ball in the post, you can not make an aggressive move, set solid and firm screens for your teammates, push off to gain some separation, or go for an offensive rebound. Drastically changes your ability to score and help the team.

For the player with 2 fouls on defense in the 1st half: You cant go for blocked shots, push or shove around screens being set on you, play strong defense verse your opponent, play effective help defense (if late to move), or even box out with the same intensity. Again, drastically changing your ability to defend or influence the game from a defensive perspective (defense leads to offense).

So just because he got back in the game in the first half, doesn't mean he was able to play the way NCC needed him to. Speaking without any bias at all, NCC's only chance vs a great opponent like Augie was to have Sorenson at his best, and doing what he has done almost every game this season... So yes, the 2 fouls were in fact a game changer, and were in fact the sole reason the game went the way it did.

The best thing to do when you get your ass kicked is just say, "We got our ass kicked" and move on to the next one.

Agreed.

I have played plenty of competitive basketball in my life and I don't disagree with the statement you just posted.  I agree that playing with two fouls early in the game can change the way that player will play.  However, that is not the point you made in your earlier posts about the game.  You said and I quote,"I was simply stating a 100% fact. Sorenson exited when the game was pretty even and standard, while out, the game got out of reach".  As has been pointed out, that statement is not accurate.  So now you're saying the only reason NCC lost by 27 points is that Sorensen picked up 2 early fouls.  I think a lot of people would disagree with that and simply say that Augie was the much better team that night, with our without Sorensen on the floor and with or without Sorensen picking up two early fouls.   My guess is it will be a much different game when Augie plays NCC again, at NCC.  I (like most people) thought this game would have been much closer.  NCC just ran into a very good team who was ready to go that night.  If it gives you comfort to think that the only reason NCC lost is Sorensen picking up two early fouls, then more power to you.  I just don't think there are many others But there isn't anybody else on the planet, with the possible exception of NC_baller, that would agree.

Fixed it for you.

[Augie6]

FYI: MU is not located in downtown Decatur. Actually MU's location west of downtown is in one of the better areas of Decatur.

I guess that you missed my joke regarding "beautiful downtown Decatur":

http://wesclark.com/burbank/bdb.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/22/entertainment/la-et-ct-beautiful-downtown-burbank-20130322

(It's not the first time that my humor has been too obscure for the room, and my guess is that it won't be the last. )

And your phrase "one of the better areas of Decatur" is my new favorite example of the term "damn with faint praise".

Greg, someone from one of the schools has to physically upload a file into our system for a box to display. I can go to NPU's site to grab an unreported score like I did yesterday but I can't magically generate a box score file.

Thanks, Pat. I've passed this along to Kevin.

I think it is safe to say you have never played competitive basketball in your life... Playing with 2 fouls in the 1st drastically changes your mentality and the mentality of your opponent that is matched up against you (They becoming way more aggressive and try to bait you/take advantage of you, especially a team as smart as Augie).

For the player with 2 fouls on offense in the 1st half:  Every time you touch the ball in the post, you can not make an aggressive move, set solid and firm screens for your teammates, push off to gain some separation, or go for an offensive rebound. Drastically changes your ability to score and help the team.

For the player with 2 fouls on defense in the 1st half: You cant go for blocked shots, push or shove around screens being set on you, play strong defense verse your opponent, play effective help defense (if late to move), or even box out with the same intensity. Again, drastically changing your ability to defend or influence the game from a defensive perspective (defense leads to offense).

So just because he got back in the game in the first half, doesn't mean he was able to play the way NCC needed him to. Speaking without any bias at all, NCC's only chance vs a great opponent like Augie was to have Sorenson at his best, and doing what he has done almost every game this season... So yes, the 2 fouls were in fact a game changer, and were in fact the sole reason the game went the way it did.

The best thing to do when you get your ass kicked is just say, "We got our ass kicked" and move on to the next one.

Agreed.

I have played plenty of competitive basketball in my life and I don't disagree with the statement you just posted.  I agree that playing with two fouls early in the game can change the way that player will play.  However, that is not the point you made in your earlier posts about the game.  You said and I quote,"I was simply stating a 100% fact. Sorenson exited when the game was pretty even and standard, while out, the game got out of reach".  As has been pointed out, that statement is not accurate.  So now you're saying the only reason NCC lost by 27 points is that Sorensen picked up 2 early fouls.  I think a lot of people would disagree with that and simply say that Augie was the much better team that night, with our without Sorensen on the floor and with or without Sorensen picking up two early fouls.   My guess is it will be a much different game when Augie plays NCC again, at NCC.  I (like most people) thought this game would have been much closer.  NCC just ran into a very good team who was ready to go that night.  If it gives you comfort to think that the only reason NCC lost is Sorensen picking up two early fouls, then more power to you.  I just don't think there are many others But there isn't anybody else on the planet, with the possible exception of NC_baller, that would agree.

Fixed it for you.

That's Hilarious!!! .  Thanks, GS

[AndOne]

OK, lets put the Augie-NCC discussion to bed.
I think that several of our long term posters would agree that there has not been a more ardent NCC basketball supporter here, over a longer term, than myself. That said, it wouldn't have mattered much, if at all, if Alex had played all 40 minutes against Augie. In fact, NCC could have had both Alex and his (imaginary) twin on the floor for the entire night, and they would still have been administered an old fashioned butt kicking, that Titan Q referred to in more colorful terms, in Wed night's debacle. When you shoot 25% as a team, the only place the members are going is to the outhouse!

Hopefully, the Cardinals have put Wed night behind them, and are concentrating on playing an aggressive, attacking style game in Bloomington tomorrow evening. If not, I fear one of the seats on the bus ride home might be occupied by "the agony of defeat."
I think the Cards are a much better team than they showed against Augie. They definitely have talent. They now need to the rely on that talent, and play well both physically and mentally against a formidable opponent in a place where they have enjoyed an appreciable home court advantage over the years.

[Gregory Sager]

I was not able to see the game unfortunately (I'd like to if it's OnDemand someplace?)

It's archived here.

I agree that Samuelson is a gifted shooter and is no doubt one of Wheaton's primary weapons.  But I don't know that other teams see him as a "threat" in the classic sense.  He's a spot up shooter with a quick release coming off screens but he's not one who creates his own shot and therefore he's limited and easily guardable with some hustle.

I concur, but when I used "threat" I meant it as a relative term. I think that Samuelson is Wheaton's best offensive weapon, but it doesn't mean that he makes me as nervous as a Kyle Wuest or a Hunter Hill. Samuelson was on fire on Wednesday night, but, as Tom Slyder said in his postgame interview, the Wheaton sophomore guard would've scored well over 30 instead of the 21 he actually had if T.J. Cobbs, NPU's best defender, hadn't been guarding him. (As a side note, most of the shots Samuelson got off were with Cobbs right in his grill; he got them off by virtue of the fact that he's five inches taller than Cobbs.)

I actually don't think there's anyone in the lineup that is singularly scary to opposing coaches.  But it doesn't mean they can't win some games as a team.

I agree with that, too. Wheaton is obviously capable of rising up on occasion and giving very good opponents a heckuva struggle (@ Hope, @ UWW, @ Augie), even though the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance have yet to seal the deal and pull off an upset. But it doesn't look good that, 15 games into the season, the four teams that Wheaton has managed to defeat have a combined record of 14-42 (.250). The one solace Wheaton fans can take from this season, aside from the fact that developing underclassmen such as Samuelson, Masten, and Morrison are getting lots of valuable playing time, is that Carthage and Millikin both look pretty beatable as far as cushioning the Wheaton program's fall is concerned.

By the way, NPU will have to do a heck of alot more than win at King Arena if they want to make their first conf tourney.

Tell me about it.

The wheels have really fallen off for Wheaton. I think that Trae Masten and Troy Morrison are good freshman pickups, but they don't have that immediate-star quality that previous Wheaton studs like Raymond, McCrary, Peters, and Teuscher had. Masten and Morrison look like players who could be really good a couple of seasons from now. Wheaton's not getting those immediate-star guys anymore, and, beyond lacking the bell cow who could carry the team in good times or bad, the program as a whole seems to be lacking the size and athleticism it used to have. I don't really understand why, because I can't fathom that there's a coach in all of D3 who is a better salesman for his school than Mike Schauer. But he's just not getting the same quality of recruits that he (and Bill Harris before him) used to get.

No, I'm not getting the sense that any of these freshman are in the MOP candidate Raymond-McCrary-Peters-B Teuscher ilk.  And it's true that WC fans have gotten used to having at least one player like that on the roster for practically 10 years running so these last 2 seasons have been pretty tough. Elmhurst didn't sport any of those sorts of players 3 seasons ago either(2-12 CCIW).  But Kyle Wuest looks pretty good now. The Thunder are playing lots of freshman and sophmores and the results reflect that.  Hopefully Coach Schauer can forge this crew into something competitive over the next 2 seasons with some help from a few more solid recruits.

Right. There is a nice potential parallel there with regard to player development in terms of Elmhurst, and I agree with you that the current 'jays squad didn't have immediate stars back when they were freshmen in Mark Scherer's final season. But it's a limited parallel, unless you can sell me on the idea that Wheaton is currently developing a nine-man crew along the lines of Wuest, Crittenden, Ackerman, Coleman, Nixon, Schwebke, Leonard, Wyatt, and Payonk. I know that I've only seen Wheaton play three times this year, but it appears to me that "some help from a few more solid recruits" should actually be "a lot of help from a few more solid recruits."

I think the Cards are a much better team than they showed against Augie.

I certainly agree with you about the Cardinals, but I can't help but note that I said virtually the same words about North Park after Augie kicked NPU's butt. The moral of the story, I think, is that each of us non-Augustana fans who look at the CCIW through the lens of our own team needs to pause for a moment after games like this and simply say, "Hey, Augustana is @$&%*#* good."

[Gregory Sager]

Massey's current take (with strength of schedule in parentheses):

    1. Augustana (5)
    4. Elmhurst (19)
  11. North Central (2)
  27. North Park (7)
  42. Illinois Wesleyan (15)
171. Wheaton (6)
172. Carthage (83)
189. Millikin (75)

My guess is that Wednesday's romp over NCC was the tipping point for Augie's moving back into first ahead of Benedictine, since NCC is a common opponent between the two.

Incidentally, our future member Carroll is having a very nice season. The Pioneers are 12-1, 8-0, with their lone loss coming to UW-Oshkosh. They have a major showdown coming on the road next week at St. Norbert (11-2, 8-0). Carroll is #38 on Massey, with a SOS ranked at #133. Carroll also received 17 points in the latest d3hoops.com poll. The thing to note about the Pioneers is that they're young. Only one of the five starters is a senior, and only one of the five guys off the bench who see time in every game is a senior as well. The newbies from Waukesha could gum up the works in the CCIW standings in 2016-17.

Massey's predictions for tomorrow:

North Park 79, @ Millikin 74 (NPU 68% favorite)
Elmhurst 79, @ Wheaton 67 (EC 86% favorite)
North Central 73, @ Illinois Wesleyan 70 (NCC 57% favorite)
Augustana 76, @ Carthage 56 (AC 96% favorite)

Ken's Hal 9000 supercomputer doesn't seem to put much stock in home-court advantage as far as this weekend is concerned.