MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[robertgoulet]

Sons of Wardidon?

[79jaybird]

Ugh!  Ugly game (from a Jays stance) last night.  North Park was the better team IMO and like Greg said,  the Vikes stole a L from the jaws of victory.  I was shocked to see the game go to OT.   Praise to NPU for showing up on the road and giving EC all they could handle and then some.
With 2 pivotal games coming up on the road,  EC has to improve their shooting.   But,  good teams find ways to win even when they are not at their best.
While I would love to see EC steal a pair of these upcoming road games, I am thinking they need to/must win at least 1.    Should be a great one in Naperville.

[GoPerry]

Wheaton 87, Millikin 76

Very happy and relieved to see Wheaton get off the schnide albeit at the expense of Wheaton friend and alum Coach Nadelhoffer.  Wheaton shot the ball exceptionally well, 56.3% and 43% from the arc.  Michael Berg 27 pts, 11 rebounds, 3 blocks led the way but Berntsen, Samuelson and Dillard all contributed significantly.  It has to be a relief for the team and coach Schauer who had a nice interview/reflection on this difficult season at the end of the broadcast. ( It's on Demand for those interested.)

Here's hoping this win can loosen up the team with some wind at their backs as they have 2 very tough but winnable home games upcoming vs Carthage and IWU.

[Gregory Sager]

There is a certain second semester transfer for NPU that is playing far too many minutes IMHO - tonight and then again at home vs Wheaton is what I've seen.  He may have more fouls than points scored in his Viking career.

I've looked at this quote again, Mark, and I still can't figure out what you're talking about. Here's the box score from last night's game. Neither of NPU's second-semester transfers played at all.

This was head coach Todd Raridon's 200th victory at NCC. With 5 more wins, he will become the Cardinals all time leader.

Hmmm..... although it feels a tad literal, perhaps when that torch passes I should evolve my occasional namecheck for the Cards from Sons of Warden to Sons of Raridon.

I'm not a North Central fan (nor do I play one on TV), but if you ask me, kiko, you should leave your alternate moniker for the Cards as is. Bill Warden is still North Central's all-time leading scorer, in spite of the fact that he began his NCC playing career back when Harry S. Truman was still in the White House, and he brought the program back from the dead when he took over as head coach in the early '80s -- and, believe me, NCC was so wretched before he returned to his alma mater that it rivaled Marc Smith-era Millikin for incompetence. To me, North Central men's basketball is in a significant sense always going to be Bill Warden's program.

Isolated incidence, Greg. Overall NPU is 2nd in the conference in FT%. 
NCC is the one who should most often offer their kingdom for a FT.  >:

Yes, but an "isolated incidence" with the game on the line is a different thing entirely than an "isolated incidence" in the first few minutes of the ballgame.

And NPU shot 1-5 from the free-throw line in overtime. The exalted CCIW rank of the Vikes in overall FT percentage for the season is no solace at all when you watch them clank four in a row in OT in what could've been a season-defining win.

Perhaps, instead of a FT, your kingdom for a big man in the middle? 

No, Mark. My kingdom for a free throw.

NPU came thisclose to beating the second-ranked team in the nation on its own floor in a game in which, except for three minutes' worth of negligible impact from Joe Biko (one block, one foul), the Vikings didn't have a player on the floor bigger than 6'4, 205 Michael Hutchinson. The Vikings didn't have a CCIW-starter-quality big man when they beat Chicago, did they? They didn't have one when they beat North Central last season, did they? They didn't have one when they beat Augie or Illinois Wesleyan last season, did they?

Would I like to have a Seibring or a Sorenson or a Crittenden or a Nixon or a Berg in a North Park uni? Of course. Do the Vikings need one in order to compete in this league? You tell me. Or, better yet, ask John Baines and see what he thinks.

The Vikings don't have a perfect roster. But I like this team, anyway ... a lot. They may not always beat the big boys, but they can compete with anybody.

[Gregory Sager]

I watched the final minute of regulation from last night's game three or four times today, and I'm as frustrated now as I was agonized yesterday. Yeah, I can hear the "get a life, Greg" replies already -- believe me, I hear that a lot where NPU basketball is concerned -- but that final thirty seconds was ulcer-inducing.

First of all, I should make it plain that Juwan Henry shouldn't be the scapegoat for the loss. Yeah, he missed the front end of a one-and-one with 28 seconds left that would've put the Vikings up by three, with a chance to then go up by four. But the reason why he was at the line in the first place was because he had rebounded a missed Colin Lake trey attempt from the corner in front of the North Park bench -- a trey attempt that hit both insides of the rim and then flew out. If that ball stays down, NPU leads by five with a half-minute left. That's basketball, folks.

More importantly, Juwan Henry had thirty freakin' points and eight rebounds in that game. The scoring numbers that he's putting up this season -- 23.3 ppg overall and 24.7 ppg in CCIW play, the latter of which is five points higher than second-place Jordan Robinson -- are ridiculous. They're in Stevie D. territory. A good argument could be made that Juwan's this year's MOP, and without him North Park is an eighth-place team that loses the game at Faganel before it even gets off the bus. So I'm not blaming him, and nobody else should, either.

My frustration stems more from how regulation ended. After Erik Crittenden tied the game at 79-79 with a ten-foot jumper from the baseline with eight seconds to go (a magnificent clutch fadeaway that he hit against picture-perfect defense from Darius Brown), Lake took the quick inbound pass. He worked his way up the floor and moved right, using a stinging screen from Brown that put Kyle Wuest in dreamland for about a minute afterward, and was knocked to the floor by Crittenden as he attempted what would've been the game-winning layup with one second left. It was a no-doubter of a call -- one CCIW ref who was sitting in the stands later told Tom Slyder that it was clearly a foul -- but Tom O'Neill, who was standing right there on the baseline when Lake was sent flying, refused to blow his whistle. I'm going to be called biased for bringing this up, but I'd also like to point out that there have been several other times in the past when I've said on d3boards.com that a good official is one who calls the game the same way with one second left as he does with ten minutes left. Swallowing the whistle at the end of a game is a terrible way to do your job. Anybody who argues that swallowing the whistle "lets the players decide the game" is missing the point that it lets the players decide the game by getting away with stuff that they otherwise couldn't, like knocking an opposing player to the floor when he's going in for a layup. It was a good, hard foul by Crittenden that kept Lake from getting any reasonable chance at making the layup -- and it should've been called as such, with Lake going to the line for two. But it wasn't.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda, though. NPU was only in that position because key shots didn't fall earlier in that final half-minute.

Thisclose. Thisclose. 

[AndOne]

Greg, with regard to your last two posts:

1. Nobody  who knows the difference between a basketball and a hole in the wall is ever going to say that NPU is not capable of competing in every game they play. Hell, they are capable of winning every game they play. I've said that before--you can look it up.
2. A far as those missed FTs last night--I think in the vast majority of instances they are going to be made. I like the chances, especially give the player(s) involved. So ya, you came thisclose to winning last night. But thats ONE game.
3. When I questioned if what you really wanted to trade your kingdom for a big man rather than a free throw, I was looking at the big picture, as in the entire season, as opposed to one game.
4. Yes, last night's game was lost due to a failure to make FTs at key times near the end of regulation and in OT. But again that is just one game. In looking at the big (entire season) as i said I was doing, isn't the one thing that NPU needs most of all-the thing that would make them a more complete team which would most enhance their chances of winning more games as opposed to competing in them-a good big man? And lets stay in the present season rather than reliving past years games that are water under the bridge. Is it not true that with a Sorenson, Sebring, Crittenden, Nixon, or Berg in a NPU uniform that the eastern Vikings would likely have won some games they lost this season, and might have a better chance of winning some they might lose over the remainder of the season?
5. As far as anyone blaming Juwan Henry for last night's loss, only a fool would do so. He does so much for his team. Possibly more than anyone else in the league does for their team. Asking more of him would be like asking for perfection--which you're not going to find in D3--or any place else for that matter.

Hopefully, at least some of this will make sense to you. I'm sure you'll find fault with at least some of it, maybe most or even all of it. But thats may story, and I'm stickin' to it! 

[voxelmhurst]

Ugh!  Ugly game (from a Jays stance) last night.  North Park was the better team IMO and like Greg said,  the Vikes stole a L from the jaws of victory.  I was shocked to see the game go to OT.   Praise to NPU for showing up on the road and giving EC all they could handle and then some.
With 2 pivotal games coming up on the road,  EC has to improve their shooting.   But,  good teams find ways to win even when they are not at their best.
While I would love to see EC steal a pair of these upcoming road games, I am thinking they need to/must win at least 1.    Should be a great one in Naperville.

I wouldn't call it an ugly win for Elmhurst. They were 49% from the floor and held the advantage in rebounds and assists. 12 turnovers is a little more than desired but not horrendous. Elmhurst has won CCIW games with uglier stats they had last night. North Park got two fantastic performances from Henry and Robinson, and in the end, it was a hard-fought CCIW win for the Jays. Maybe a tough win wasn't the worst thing to happen to the Jays before trips to NCC and Augustana.

[79jaybird]

I for one, thought we (Elmhurst) was in trouble.  With 70 seconds to go I did not expect there to be extra time as NPU had all the makings of a big upset. 
I also think some credit should go to the seniors of EC  who were able to make OT favorable for the Jays.

NPU had a higher intensity for most of this game.   I think if EC is outhustled and cannot match the intensity Saturday & next Wednesday,   there is a good chance EC won't be happy with the outcomes.   

I am hoping Elmhurst minimally can win at least 1 of these next 2. 

BTW- A fan bus has been arranged to take Jays fans to RI Wednesday.  I know this is nothing new to the Titan Nation,  but for Elmhurst,  this is a big deal.  Something like this was unheard of back when I was a student (98-02) and the early 00's decade.

[79jaybird]

Good points Vox.   Yes,  you'll take a CCIW win any way you can get it.    Plus,  getting embarrassed at home would not be ideal staring 2 contenders in the face your next two times on the court.

[AndOne]

[quote author=AndOne link=topic=4592.msg1725424#msg1725424
This was head coach Todd Raridon's 200th victory at NCC. With 5 more wins, he will become the Cardinals all time leader.

Hmmm..... although it feels a tad literal, perhaps when that torch passes I should evolve my occasional namecheck for the Cards from Sons of Warden to Sons of Raridon.

I'm not a North Central fan (nor do I play one on TV), but if you ask me, kiko, you should leave your alternate moniker for the Cards as is. Bill Warden is still North Central's all-time leading scorer, in spite of the fact that he began his NCC playing career back when Harry S. Truman was still in the White House, and he brought the program back from the dead when he took over as head coach in the early '80s -- and, believe me, NCC was so wretched before he returned to his alma mater that it rivaled Marc Smith-era Millikin for incompetence. To me, North Central men's basketball is in a significant sense always going to be Bill Warden's program.

Todd Raridon (who actually now has a total of 469 wins counting his 269 at Nebraska Wesleyan) would be the first person to tell you that Bill Warden is the KING of NCC basketball, BOTH from a playing and coaching perspective, and always will be. 

[AndOne]

I for one, thought we (Elmhurst) was in trouble.  With 70 seconds to go I did not expect there to be extra time as NPU had all the makings of a big upset. 
I also think some credit should go to the seniors of EC  who were able to make OT favorable for the Jays.

NPU had a higher intensity for most of this game.   I think if EC is outhustled and cannot match the intensity Saturday & next Wednesday,   there is a good chance EC won't be happy with the outcomes.   

I am hoping Elmhurst minimally can win at least 1 of these next 2. 

BTW- A fan bus has been arranged to take Jays fans to RI Saturday. I know this is nothing new to the Titan Nation,  but for Elmhurst,  this is a big deal.  Something like this was unheard of back when I was a student (98-02) and the early 00's decade.

79-

I, for one, certainly hope that bus does indeed find its way to Rock Island this Saturday. That way all those insane Bluejays fans won't be in Naperville cheering against their feathered brethren. Rather, they can have fun in RI cheering either for Millikin or Augie! 

[79jaybird]

And one- Thank you for pointing that out, has been revised.  LOL  Ugh!  Trying to sit at cubicle on hold with a customer and typing at the same time.  LOL

[Gregory Sager]

I wouldn't call it an ugly win for Elmhurst.

Ugly wins are for non-conference. Any CCIW win by definition sounds like the CSO, smells like roses, and looks like Kate Upton.

A far as those missed FTs last night--I think in the vast majority of instances they are going to be made. I like the chances, especially give the player(s) involved. So ya, you came thisclose to winning last night. But thats ONE game.

Of course. But you only get fourteen of 'em every year, so one game is not something to easily dismiss. Moreover, NPU does not have the luxury of being able to shrug off losses as readily as an Augie or an Elmhurst could, because the Park's margin for error is smaller. There are, realistically, five teams competing for four CCIW tourney spots, and North Park is one of the teams at the bottom of that list of five. This one hurt even more because, aside from the fact that the Vikes had it in the palms of their hands and let it slip away, the potential gain from it from a multiple tiebreaker perspective was so great.

When I questioned if what you really wanted to trade your kingdom for a big man rather than a free throw, I was looking at the big picture, as in the entire season, as opposed to one game.

Apples and oranges, since the big picture wasn't what was in question. And a big man would not have helped NPU during those final thirty seconds of regulation.

Yes, last night's game was lost due to a failure to make FTs at key times near the end of regulation and in OT. But again that is just one game.

You realize, of course, that you're leaving yourself open to having me come back at you the next time you bemoan an NCC loss with, "But, Mark, that is just one game!"

In looking at the big (entire season) as i said I was doing, isn't the one thing that NPU needs most of all-the thing that would make them a more complete team which would most enhance their chances of winning more games as opposed to competing in them-a good big man?

You're stating the obvious here. But, again, it really isn't germane to what went on in the final thirty seconds of regulation in last night's game.

And lets stay in the present season rather than reliving past years games that are water under the bridge. Is it not true that with a Sorenson, Sebring, Crittenden, Nixon, or Berg in a NPU uniform that the eastern Vikings would likely have won some games they lost this season, and might have a better chance of winning some they might lose over the remainder of the season?

A big man might've made the difference in the loss to North Central, but that's about it. The Vikings were thoroughly whipped by Trine, Alma, and Dubuque (although Trine didn't pull away until pretty late in the game), well beyond any redemption by a solid big man, and the outcome last night was, as I said, not contingent upon NPU's lack of a quality big. But as for a quality big possibly giving NPU a better chance of winning whatever losses they may suffer from here on out ... well, file that one in the "Duh!" category.

As far as anyone blaming Juwan Henry for last night's loss, only a fool would do so. He does so much for his team. Possibly more than anyone else in the league does for their team. Asking more of him would be like asking for perfection--which you're not going to find in D3--or any place else for that matter.

True dat ... although Jordan Robinson shouldn't get lost in the shuffle. Not only did he put up 31 and 12 last night, but his numbers for the season -- 22.2 and 11.2 overall, and 19.8 and 11.2 in CCIW play -- are pretty nuts, too. Nobody's averaged 11 boards per game since the CCIW began keeping computerized stats at the turn of the millennium, and only once over that period has there been as great a discrepancy between the league's top rebounder and the second-leading rebounder as there is now. (Steve Clum of Wheaton averaged 21 rpg in 1971-72, so there's no danger of the league record being broken in that category. Apparently, nobody knew how to shoot the basketball in 1971-72. )

Hopefully, at least some of this will make sense to you. I'm sure you'll find fault with at least some of it, maybe most or even all of it. But thats may story, and I'm stickin' to it! 

Of course. You didn't really think I wouldn't respond, did you?

[iwumichigander]

Get a life, Greg!   

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I'm finding the repetitive use of video replay by Elmhurst annoying.  I am missing too much real-time action.  33-33 with five minutes left in the first half.

You're not alone. I couldn't watch tonight (was at the Bulls game watching them get run off the floor by the Warriors) but it was the same story in the Wesleyan game. Not only does the replay last too long, it also runs after plays that don't need replay.

Just because you have bells and whistles doesn't mean you should show them all of the time. This is one of the hardest things to learn in production - just because you have replay doesn't mean you throw it in there every chance you get. There is a learning curve and maybe those at Elmhurst could use a consultant/trainer .