MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[CCIW >]

Hard to even respond to NCC's post.  He most know something that none of the coaches in the league know, since he's not sold on Hunter Hill, despite being the conference co-player of the year last season.  Since nothing is up for debate, why don't we just crown NCC the CCIW champ and national champion right now?  With 3 CCIW first teamers, there really seems no reason to play the remainder of the games this season.

Please explain in a detailed, source cited, book report how the picking of the 1st Team All-CCIW has anything to do with a National Championship or CCIW Championship... Also, please explain how it impacts any game remaining this season...
Teams play games, not individuals.
The All-CCIW team awards individuals, not teams.

Just cause Hunter Hill is the PG on the best team, does not mean he is one of the best 5 players in the conference. I really think you can remove him and add Wuest, Anderson, Sims, Henry, etc as the PG of Augie, and they would have the exact same successes. But what would happen if you put Hill on NPU??? I can assure you, he is not putting up any numbers at all. He shows flashes of brilliance because his team is organized so well, not because he is an outstanding player.

Give me HENRY any day of the week, any week of the year, any year of my life.

[kiko]

Hard to even respond to NCC's post.  He most know something that none of the coaches in the league know, since he's not sold on Hunter Hill, despite being the conference co-player of the year last season.  Since nothing is up for debate, why don't we just crown NCC the CCIW champ and national champion right now?  With 3 CCIW first teamers, there really seems no reason to play the remainder of the games this season.

Please explain in a detailed, source cited, book report how the picking of the 1st Team All-CCIW has anything to do with a National Championship or CCIW Championship... Also, please explain how it impacts any game remaining this season...
Teams play games, not individuals.
The All-CCIW team awards individuals, not teams.

Just cause Hunter Hill is the PG on the best team, does not mean he is one of the best 5 players in the conference. I really think you can remove him and add Wuest, Anderson, Sims, Henry, etc as the PG of Augie, and they would have the exact same successes. But what would happen if you put Hill on NPU??? I can assure you, he is not putting up any numbers at all. He shows flashes of brilliance because his team is organized so well, not because he is an outstanding player.

Give me HENRY any day of the week, any week of the year, any year of my life.

Rather than wade into the swamp that is your, um, logic, I'll just highlight this.

If you don't think Hunter Hill is one of the five best players in the conference, than you've inadvertently checked your credibility at the door.

[havej]

Agree with Kiko on his assessment of Hill - he very much plays within himself and the system at Augie.  If any of you saw him play last year in the Final Four, you'd see he has a very dynamic side he often does not have to display during the regular season as they are usually able to pound the ball inside.

Against a very tough Point team in last year's final, he was the only player on the floor who could go get his own shot.

As far as Henry he is an outstanding talent - I saw him play NCC last year in the game for I believe the last playoff spot and he was superb.  Not only did he score but he continually made plays for his teammates.

However in the three CCIW games this year against the top teams, he's shooting 38% on 21 FGAs per game with 10 turnovers.  He was very tough to watch in their home game against Augie with numerous forced shots and 5 turnovers.

So it all depends on when you see these guys and what kind of player fits best within the framework of their respective team - you can bet that they are both the #1 guy on their opponent's scouting report which makes their accomplishments all the more impressive.

[Augie6]

Hard to even respond to NCC's post.  He most know something that none of the coaches in the league know, since he's not sold on Hunter Hill, despite being the conference co-player of the year last season.  Since nothing is up for debate, why don't we just crown NCC the CCIW champ and national champion right now?  With 3 CCIW first teamers, there really seems no reason to play the remainder of the games this season.

Please explain in a detailed, source cited, book report how the picking of the 1st Team All-CCIW has anything to do with a National Championship or CCIW Championship... Also, please explain how it impacts any game remaining this season...
Teams play games, not individuals.
The All-CCIW team awards individuals, not teams.

Just cause Hunter Hill is the PG on the best team, does not mean he is one of the best 5 players in the conference. I really think you can remove him and add Wuest, Anderson, Sims, Henry, etc as the PG of Augie, and they would have the exact same successes. But what would happen if you put Hill on NPU??? I can assure you, he is not putting up any numbers at all. He shows flashes of brilliance because his team is organized so well, not because he is an outstanding player.

Give me HENRY any day of the week, any week of the year, any year of my life.

Rather than wade into the swamp that is your, um, logic, I'll just highlight this.

If you don't think Hunter Hill is one of the five best players in the conference, than you've inadvertently checked your credibility at the door.

NCC,

Not to spend a whole lot of time debating you on this issue, as you are clearly one of the more clueless posters that has ever graced this board (and that's saying something)  I haven't seen one other poster agree with your opinions and these are people that have been have been following the CCIW for many years and are as knowledgable as they come.  It's great that you clearly are a big fan of NCC, but to come on the board and say that NCC should have 3 on the all CCIW first team and that any player from Augie or Elmhurst is undeserving of a spot is beyond idiotic.  You clearly have no clue as to how all conference teams are picked.  Simply put, the best teams in the conference are going to be represented on the first team, regardless of your opinion on the matter.  Statistically speaking, you can make a case for a lot of players being selected on a year by year basis.  But you also have to factor in team success and not just individual statistics when doing this.  Augie has a 20 ppg differential this season in the 18 games they have played.  Because of this, there are a lot of players at Augie getting minutes and the starters are out much more than other teams.  Augie only has one player who is averaging more than 30 minutes per game and among the CCIW leaders and that is Hunter Hill.  The next highest average minutes per game is Ben Ryan at ~25.  Hill is the only one in the top 15 players in the CCIW in minutes played per game.  NPU has the 3 highest (Henry, Robinson and Lake) and NCC has 3 in the top 15.  When you are one of the top teams in the country and winning games by 20 ppg, you're not going to have your starters on the floor as much as some other teams.  That impacts individual statistics.  Will the players you mention be in the mix for all conference honors?  I'm sure they will.  But I can pretty much guarantee there will be players from Augie and Elmhurst that will be selected to the first team, and that's how it should be. 

On your comment on Hunter Hill, I can only agree with Kiko's comments and the CCIW Coaches, who elected Hill co-player of the year in the CCIW last season.  I'm sure everyone of those coaches would love to have Hunter Hill on their team.  But I guess you know more than they do. 

[Naperick]

I'm not too concerned about individual awards.  I'm just worried about the teams record.   I bet most players feel the same way.

[robertgoulet]

I went to NCC and I played PG. Does that make me eligible for the First Team?

[Augie6]

I went to NCC and I played PG. Does that make me eligible for the First Team?

In NCC's mind, I think there would be no debate about it.   

[cardinalpride]

Half way through the CCIW slate and I am curious who you guys have for 1st Team All-CCIW??

PG: ?
SG: J Henry (no debating)
SF: Connor Raridon (no debating)
PF: J Robinson (no debating)
C: Alex Sorenson (no debating)

As far as the PG spot is concerned, I am not sold on Hunter Hill or Kyle Wuest. If NCC makes a push to win conference I really believe Jagger Anderson should be up for that last guard spot. Without him, NCC might be a .500 team. His skill with the ball and penetrating the lane is unmatched by anyone in this league but Henry. Over the last 5-10 years of watch NCC play, they have always struggled to handle ball pressure and it has driven me crazy. A full court press would almost cripple our point guard and really hurt the team (not able to get into the offense). With Anderson, it is incredible, no one can take the ball from him and that is a something that you won't see on a stat sheet, but is more valuable then almost anything he does. Also, whenever NCC needs a basket, it seems to always be Jagger with a few slick moves and a tough finish in traffic to get the guys amped up. If you haven't been following him, i suggest you do. Absolutely the best true point guard in the CCIW, but i understand Hill and Wuest are going to most likely battle for the other guard spot.

But i will say:
After watching Wuest take horrible shots all night, and fail to defend with any effectiveness, I can't imagine why he is a 1st Teamer? Felt the same way last year.

NCC,
I love your Cardinal support. However, at the end of the day, the CCIW coaches will have the final say. As far as my humble opinion is concerned, all 4 of the players you named on the 1st team should be in the mix for 1st team consideration but all will not make the cut. At least one if not two of those players will fall to the 2nd team. That will depend on how the standings shake out. Regarding Jagger Anderson, he is a fine player but over the next 7 games he has some work to do to garner all CCIW recognition on any team. Even if the cardinals finish 13-1 it would be extremely difficult for them to get 3 players on the 1st team because of the selection process.

[robertgoulet]

I went to NCC and I played PG. Does that make me eligible for the First Team?

In NCC's mind, I think there would be no debate about it.   

GD right. Do I get a trophy or a medal or something?

[CCIW >]

Half way through the CCIW slate and I am curious who you guys have for 1st Team All-CCIW??

PG: ?
SG: J Henry (no debating)
SF: Connor Raridon (no debating)
PF: J Robinson (no debating)
C: Alex Sorenson (no debating)

As far as the PG spot is concerned, I am not sold on Hunter Hill or Kyle Wuest. If NCC makes a push to win conference I really believe Jagger Anderson should be up for that last guard spot. Without him, NCC might be a .500 team. His skill with the ball and penetrating the lane is unmatched by anyone in this league but Henry. Over the last 5-10 years of watch NCC play, they have always struggled to handle ball pressure and it has driven me crazy. A full court press would almost cripple our point guard and really hurt the team (not able to get into the offense). With Anderson, it is incredible, no one can take the ball from him and that is a something that you won't see on a stat sheet, but is more valuable then almost anything he does. Also, whenever NCC needs a basket, it seems to always be Jagger with a few slick moves and a tough finish in traffic to get the guys amped up. If you haven't been following him, i suggest you do. Absolutely the best true point guard in the CCIW, but i understand Hill and Wuest are going to most likely battle for the other guard spot.

But i will say:
After watching Wuest take horrible shots all night, and fail to defend with any effectiveness, I can't imagine why he is a 1st Teamer? Felt the same way last year.

At least you guys can read... Not.
Clearly said that Hill and Wuest will compete for last spot, even tho i do think Anderson is playing extremely well and is under the radar. But feel free to ignore that part of my post. It's cool.

And you guys crack me up so much. I do not really support any team in the CCIW, i just am around the league consistently and wanted to make my name "NCC" because i love how "AndOne" gets everyone all upset with his posts. Wanted to be his sidekick to be honest. Haha

Now, I would love to take a poll real quick: Who has actually played against these guys, or guarded these guys, or actually game planned for a matchup vs an Augie/Elmhurst team over the last 5 years...? Who has actually been on the court with these guys...? Anyone?
Odds are I am the only one, since most of you are older gentlemen.

I would like to say:  There is a difference, a large difference, in playing on court with these guys we talk about daily, and "Analyzing", "Speculating", "reporting what you think happens." So don't be so quick to throw away my opinion and comments. I have much more experience and knowledge then you would think.

[CCIW >]

Half way through the CCIW slate and I am curious who you guys have for 1st Team All-CCIW??

PG: ?
SG: J Henry (no debating)
SF: Connor Raridon (no debating)
PF: J Robinson (no debating)
C: Alex Sorenson (no debating)

As far as the PG spot is concerned, I am not sold on Hunter Hill or Kyle Wuest. If NCC makes a push to win conference I really believe Jagger Anderson should be up for that last guard spot. Without him, NCC might be a .500 team. His skill with the ball and penetrating the lane is unmatched by anyone in this league but Henry. Over the last 5-10 years of watch NCC play, they have always struggled to handle ball pressure and it has driven me crazy. A full court press would almost cripple our point guard and really hurt the team (not able to get into the offense). With Anderson, it is incredible, no one can take the ball from him and that is a something that you won't see on a stat sheet, but is more valuable then almost anything he does. Also, whenever NCC needs a basket, it seems to always be Jagger with a few slick moves and a tough finish in traffic to get the guys amped up. If you haven't been following him, i suggest you do. Absolutely the best true point guard in the CCIW, but i understand Hill and Wuest are going to most likely battle for the other guard spot.

But i will say:
After watching Wuest take horrible shots all night, and fail to defend with any effectiveness, I can't imagine why he is a 1st Teamer? Felt the same way last year.

NCC,
I love your Cardinal support. However, at the end of the day, the CCIW coaches will have the final say. As far as my humble opinion is concerned, all 4 of the players you named on the 1st team should be in the mix for 1st team consideration but all will not make the cut. At least one if not two of those players will fall to the 2nd team. That will depend on how the standings shake out. Regarding Jagger Anderson, he is a fine player but over the next 7 games he has some work to do to garner all CCIW recognition on any team. Even if the cardinals finish 13-1 it would be extremely difficult for them to get 3 players on the 1st team because of the selection process.

I agree, the voting system is pretty lame to be honest. Because it is his first year in the CCIW, itll be hard for him to gain any recognition, especially with all the seniors in the league this year.

[CCIW >]

Also,
I am still curious as to who you guys think will be on the 1st Team...? You all made it clear that Henry, Robinson, Raridon, and Sorenson are idiotic and ludicrous options and I should be banned from posting because i suggested their names... But no one has presented other individuals that will dethrone them.

Is there a better Center? or Power-forward? or Small Forward? (I wont ask if there is a better Shooting Guard, HENRY FOR PRESIDENT)
I am really curious, because i can't watch all the games every Wednesday or Saturday

[CCIW >]

I love you guys tho. I really do
Big Greg Sager fan.

[sac]

Also,
I am still curious as to who you guys think will be on the 1st Team...? You all made it clear that Henry, Robinson, Raridon, and Sorenson are idiotic and ludicrous options and I should be banned from posting because i suggested their names... But no one has presented other individuals that will dethrone them.

Is there a better Center? or Power-forward? or Small Forward? (I wont ask if there is a better Shooting Guard, HENRY FOR PRESIDENT)
I am really curious, because i can't watch all the games every Wednesday or Saturday

If the first team is a five guard offense required to travel by transit van, its Illinois Wesleyan's starting five all day long.

[AndOne]

Gentleman,

With fully half of the CCIW conference basketball season remaining to be contested, isn't it a bit premature to begin the debate concerning who, besides Hunter Hill of course, is deserving of all-conference first team recognition?
Mr. Hill was last year's CO-POY so we automatically know his feet are purified, and estimably kissable again this year. 

However, not all of the other subjects have yet finished the series of frigidarium, tepidarium, and caldarium, so it is yet indeterminate whether their feet are kissable and they are suitable for coronation at this point.