MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

I believe that historically each team gets at least one player on the all-conference team.

Nope. On numerous occasions there's been teams that had either one conference win or none at all that have been shut out of All-CCIW honors.

This year, I don't anticipate either Wheaton or Millikin getting shut out. Michael Berg is a more than valid All-CCIW pick who ranks pretty high in both the scoring and rebounding categories (both overall and CCIW-only), and, while MU has less of a standout pick than does Wheaton, I suspect that T.J. Griffin has done well enough, at least at this point, to merit a third-team nod from the coaches. (I don't think that the CCIW braintrust would be as likely to reward Tommy Pilackas or T.J. "the Human Rollercoaster" Sims.)

Right now my 1st team all-conference players would be (keeping in mind the voters don't necessarily follow a "regular" 2 guard, 2 forward, center lineup:

G - Henry, NPU
G - Hill, Augie
C/F - Sorenson, NCC
F - Robinson, NPU
F - Ryan, Augie

2nd team

G - Griffin, Millikin
G/F - Raridon, NCC
C - Nixon, Elmhurst
F - Seibring, IWU
F - Berg, Wheaton

3rd team has a multitude of possibilities. Not ready to make selections at this point, but in keeping with the at least one player per team, would include Kedrowski of Carthage.

I understand that it's your team that you've posted here, rather than your prediction of how the All-CCIW team will actually appear. Of course, Chuck is right that Kyle Wuest will make either first team or second team, and I suspect that Will Nixon might creep onto second team as well. On the other hand, Chuck's overestimating the season that Bryce Dolan has had.

(All of this could change, of course. After all, there's five games left in the second round-robin, and five games is more than a third of the entire CCIW slate.)

Kedrowski? You're clearly not following Carthage very closely, Mark. Over the course of his last three games, Jordon Kedrowski has:

* scored four points in 17 minutes against Wheaton (while posting a 0:3 a:to, which is horrible for a point guard);
* scored zero points in 24 minutes against North Park (0-6 from the field, and another atrocious a:to of 0:5); and
* scored three points in four minutes against Illinois Wesleyan.

As mwunder indicated, Kedrowski seems to be deep in Bosko's doghouse right now. Talented freshman or not, he is not playing very good basketball at all. He may be Carthage's leading scorer (although not by much), but he's underwater for the overall season in a:to, and in CCIW games his a:to is 10:25, a number that you'd expect to see for a ham-handed center rather than for the team's primary distributor. And, like most freshman guards, he's still very much a work-in-progress as far as defense is concerned. He's a promising young player and a nice piece for Bosko to build around ... but he's not All-CCIW material at this point, and he's certainly not going to give Connor Raridon a run for his money for CCIW Freshman of the Year.

If you're looking for a Carthage pick for All-CCIW -- and I don't see the Red Men providing anything other than a single third-teamer -- look at Brad Kruse (who is one of the better defenders in the league), Mike Stevenson (who has averaged 18 and 5 over Carthage's last three games), or Kiston Lee (who just had a terrific 12 and 16 night against Illinois Wesleyan).

I'm sure there will be disagreements. Instead of slamming me/my picks if you disagree, just give us yours. It would be interesting to see what people think. 

Thank you for not putting the words "no debating" next to your picks.

I'm not slamming your picks at all (well, except for Kedrowski ). I'm just reiterating something of which you're already aware, which is that the coaches are going to go with their tried-and-true method of apportioning All-CCIW picks based upon where the respective teams fall in the final standings ... a method of which I am particularly apprehensive this year, as I fear that it may cause them to balk at putting both Juwan Henry and Jordan Robinson on the first team.

[Gregory Sager]

Speaking of which, congrats to Juwan Henry upon being named CCIW Player of the Week for the fourth time this season. Back in November Bob bemoaned the fact that Bryce Dolan didn't win the award in a week in which he had a 37-point game, most likely because IWU lost that game. Well, I think that we may have finally found the threshold that a player has to reach in order to win PotW in a week in which his team loses: 72 points in two games, including the second-highest single-game point total in school history.

Winning four PotW awards would seem to indicate that the coaches are leaning towards naming Juwan to the first team for the second year in a row, and that's he's got a solid shot at MOP, but I'm not taking anything for granted on either front. Only three players over the past decade and a half have won at least four PotWs in a season (Joel Kolmodin, Kent Raymond, and Steve Djurickovic, with all three doing it in two different seasons), and the only time that one of them failed to win the MOP was in 2001-02, when Kolmodin won it five times but Antoine McDaniel (who only won it once that season) was named the MOP. Of course, it needs to be pointed out that the league was very promiscuous in handing out PotWs back then, giving the award to more than one player per week on multiple occasions (Kolmodin shared it twice that year, once with two other players).

Meanwhile, Juwan's 11th in D3 in scoring at 24.4 ppg, fourth in total points, and is ranked in nine of the CCIW's 13 categories in overall stats. In terms of CCIW-only stats, he's having an even more impressive time of it, ranking in 10 of the 13 categories (including second in trey %, by the way) and practically lapping the field in terms of scoring, as his 26.6 ppg is seven points higher than his nearest competitor (who happens to be his teammate, Jordan Robinson). I mean, for crying out loud, he's among the league leaders (both overall and in CCIW play) in blocked shots, and he's freaking 5'10!

I know that I'm being Captain Obvious in saying this, but Juwan Henry is, simply put, a phenomenal all-around basketball player at this level. It's a privilege and a pleasure to see him play in a North Park uni.

[Gregory Sager]

Regarding the Demetrius Randle call with 2.2 seconds left: I think Randle is one of the better CCIW refs. If Straughter was in fact "run over," he made the courageous and correct call. A similar play occurred at Shirk on Mar. 7, 2014 in a 1st round D3 tourney game vs. Webster. IWU was up one after 2 FTs with 8 seconds left. Webster inbounded and their star dribbled down the court. His teammate set a hard pick on Brady Zimmer with 4 seconds left. Zimmer fell (flopped maybe) to the floor and the ref made the call and IWU escaped and made it to the Final 4. There were a lot of chat posts on that very controversial call. Grey is such a good coach and I'm sure he designed the play in order to have a chance for the call.

With all due respect, that's not a similar call at all. That's a live ball foul, this was on an inbounds play dead-ball sitch. Every coach in the world tries to get this call, most time they set a pick on the inbound defender (if the inbound passer can run the baseline) and try to get him to run him over, it's usually so obvious a ploy that the refs don't call it. It's very unusual to get them to blow the whistle with two seconds left on an inbounds play. VERY unusual...like I said, oh well....

Obviously I didn't see the foul but I wanted to clarify one thing regarding live ball/dead ball status.  On a throw-in the ball becomes live when it is at the disposal of the thrower-in even though the clock is not running.  There are a couple of situations in basketball (at least college and high school) in which the ball is live but the clock is not running.  In addition to the throw-in it's also a live ball when the ball is placed at the disposal of the shooter during a free throw.  This is rule six (Live Ball/Dead Ball) in the NCAA rule book.  Again I didn't see the foul but based on his description both occurred during a live ball by rule even though the clock was running in one case and stopped in the other.

You're technically correct regarding the "live ball" vs. "dead ball" language, bw. But Rob's right that the Webster @ IWU scenario and the NPU @ AC scenario were two distinctly different situations, and that: a) what Grey Giovanine tried to set up (and succeeded at) is something that every coach tries in that situation; and b) it's extremely rare that a foul gets called off of it.

Rob,
Let me preference this by acknowledging I have not seen the foul in question.
My guess is it was an inbounds play underneath Angie's basket and straughter sets a back screen on Robinson. Straughter then reacts as if he was run over by a truck. Rob, did I summarize the "flopping foul" correctly? I've seen Augie, in particularly straughter, do this on a number of occasions this season in an attempt to pick up a cheap foul on the oppositions key player.

The player who committed the foul was Darius Brown, not Jordan Robinson. As to whether or not Jawan Straughter flopped, that remains the $64,000 question. Nobody except for Demetrius Randle seems to have seen the incident, since it occurred at midcourt during a play that was, as you indicated, an Augustana inbound from the endline. Everybody else's eyes (and the webstream camera) were pointed at the throw-in rather than at the contact that took place 47 feet away from the throw-in.

[Gregory Sager]

I'll include this paragraph, a quote from Michael regarding the prayer circle at center court at the conclusion of a game: "These are still the competitors we just finished beating up against, but praying lets us remember that it's just a game in the grand scheme of things. In short, we pray with other teams to help keep basketball in perspective."

This leads to an interesting point, seeing as how North Park is going to be playing Wheaton at King Arena a little over 48 hours from now. I didn't mention it in my WC @ NPU game recap, but there was no postgame prayer circle in the crackerbox on January 13. The absence of the prayer circle was a big surprise, since it seems like Wheaton regularly holds a prayer circle in most sports. It was lively fodder for discussion afterwards among those of us who were there, since on the surface you'd think that North Park, as the CCIW's only other evangelical school, would be the one opponent with which Wheaton would always hold a prayer circle. It wasn't as though it was a rough-and-tumble game with lots of hard feelings, either; in fact, since the NPU students weren't on hand for the game (NPU was still on winter break), it was probably the most mild-mannered men's basketball game ever played against Wheaton in the history of the crackerbox. I'd be interested in knowing what prompted the Wheaton team not to try to hold the postgame prayer that night.

I do know that a lot of people at North Park have mixed feelings (or worse) about that particular Wheaton tradition. It's not that there's some sort of true religious divide between the two schools (although some of the more uninformed and/or judgmental people at both schools have promoted that idea). Without getting into a whole big biblical debate here, let's just say that the Sermon on the Mount has been cited by the NPU detractors of Wheaton's prayer circle (Matthew 6:5-6 in particular, for those of you who need the reference. )

On a personal level I don't have an issue with Wheaton's prayer circle, because I think that, for most Wheaton student-athletes, their heart is in the right place. But it's not a gesture with which others who share their faith necessarily agree.

(Perhaps the solution is to have the two teams pray somewhere other than the middle of the court.)

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Interesting point of view on the Wheaton prayer circle. I am familiar with the practice here on the east coast as Messiah has a similar ritual after games.

I can't remember if I was ever asked to participate in my playing days with any school, but I always find it as a bit of an awkward situation that leaves the opponent in a no-win situation. Now, before I continue I will say that some coaches I have spoken to about this (not students as it hasn't been appropriate to do so) haven't seen it in such a way, but I also am not sure they aren't just being PC with me. However, I find it puts the opponent in a situation that they would be seen as being disrespectful for not participating especially if asked. I know schools like Messiah will state that they are certainly not offended and respect another team or players rights not to participate, but from an outsider's point of view - or a person in the stand - they may not appreciate those simple facts. The visual is a team, player, coach walking away especially if it is taking place on their own field (Messiah, Wheaton, whomever being the visitor). I think other teams are put in a spot where they feel they would be disrespectful should they say no or the optics of them not participating would be misconstrued by someone looking on.

Now, I don't in any way want to say that these schools and teams should not have a moment of reflection or prayer after a game, but maybe there should be somewhere or timing that is more subtle. Not sure I understand why it has to take place at midcourt, center circle in all of these sports. It brings attention to the team and thus the awkwardness described above. I am sure the meaning of the prayer or moment of reflection doesn't lose it's power or meaning if it happens next to the bench or in the locker room.

I am probably a little more hyper-aware of perception considering I traveled the world in an organization that has been the butt of jokes for the fact we seem to always be smiling (and singing). However, whatever I or my friends/cast did was very visual and thus under a spotlight, in a fish bowl, especially in small towns. We learned to be smart in our surroundings and especially respect the situations we were in - not take over or put ourselves at the center of attention (unless we were performing - I mean that is a clear difference LOL).

On the flip side, others didn't respect necessarily the point of view myself or my friends game from. I cannot tell you how many times I or others were put in some rather awkward situations because we didn't feel we could say no or not participate without being disrespectful... despite the fact the family or others might have been in a similar situation as Wheaton, Messiah, or others, and would have completely understood. That is a tough gamble to make in one's head in the spur of the moment.

Maybe I am making too much of this, but it has been on my mind for a number of years as I watch it play out more and more often. I will freely admit... I might be making far more of it than others or it needs to be. I just find it one of the more awkward situations to put student-athletes who are not of the participating institution(s).

[robberki]

Regarding the Demetrius Randle call with 2.2 seconds left: I think Randle is one of the better CCIW refs. If Straughter was in fact "run over," he made the courageous and correct call. A similar play occurred at Shirk on Mar. 7, 2014 in a 1st round D3 tourney game vs. Webster. IWU was up one after 2 FTs with 8 seconds left. Webster inbounded and their star dribbled down the court. His teammate set a hard pick on Brady Zimmer with 4 seconds left. Zimmer fell (flopped maybe) to the floor and the ref made the call and IWU escaped and made it to the Final 4. There were a lot of chat posts on that very controversial call. Grey is such a good coach and I'm sure he designed the play in order to have a chance for the call.

With all due respect, that's not a similar call at all. That's a live ball foul, this was on an inbounds play dead-ball sitch. Every coach in the world tries to get this call, most time they set a pick on the inbound defender (if the inbound passer can run the baseline) and try to get him to run him over, it's usually so obvious a ploy that the refs don't call it. It's very unusual to get them to blow the whistle with two seconds left on an inbounds play. VERY unusual...like I said, oh well....

Obviously I didn't see the foul but I wanted to clarify one thing regarding live ball/dead ball status.  On a throw-in the ball becomes live when it is at the disposal of the thrower-in even though the clock is not running.  There are a couple of situations in basketball (at least college and high school) in which the ball is live but the clock is not running.  In addition to the throw-in it's also a live ball when the ball is placed at the disposal of the shooter during a free throw.  This is rule six (Live Ball/Dead Ball) in the NCAA rule book.  Again I didn't see the foul but based on his description both occurred during a live ball by rule even though the clock was running in one case and stopped in the other.

that's a technically correct, by-the-book definition of the thing, but is also a good representation of the letter vs. the spirit of the rule. It was a foul committed not really during the flow of the game but off a dead ball situation, it's a very, very rare foul to call.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Regarding the Demetrius Randle call with 2.2 seconds left: I think Randle is one of the better CCIW refs. If Straughter was in fact "run over," he made the courageous and correct call. A similar play occurred at Shirk on Mar. 7, 2014 in a 1st round D3 tourney game vs. Webster. IWU was up one after 2 FTs with 8 seconds left. Webster inbounded and their star dribbled down the court. His teammate set a hard pick on Brady Zimmer with 4 seconds left. Zimmer fell (flopped maybe) to the floor and the ref made the call and IWU escaped and made it to the Final 4. There were a lot of chat posts on that very controversial call. Grey is such a good coach and I'm sure he designed the play in order to have a chance for the call.

With all due respect, that's not a similar call at all. That's a live ball foul, this was on an inbounds play dead-ball sitch. Every coach in the world tries to get this call, most time they set a pick on the inbound defender (if the inbound passer can run the baseline) and try to get him to run him over, it's usually so obvious a ploy that the refs don't call it. It's very unusual to get them to blow the whistle with two seconds left on an inbounds play. VERY unusual...like I said, oh well....

Obviously I didn't see the foul but I wanted to clarify one thing regarding live ball/dead ball status.  On a throw-in the ball becomes live when it is at the disposal of the thrower-in even though the clock is not running.  There are a couple of situations in basketball (at least college and high school) in which the ball is live but the clock is not running.  In addition to the throw-in it's also a live ball when the ball is placed at the disposal of the shooter during a free throw.  This is rule six (Live Ball/Dead Ball) in the NCAA rule book.  Again I didn't see the foul but based on his description both occurred during a live ball by rule even though the clock was running in one case and stopped in the other.

that's a technically correct, by-the-book definition of the thing, but is also a good representation of the letter vs. the spirit of the rule. It was a foul committed not really during the flow of the game but off a dead ball situation, it's a very, very rare foul to call.

Let's also remember that the rule emphasis this year from the coaches was to cut down on the physicality along with allowing the game to become more free flowing. It might be a "by-the-book" thing and a "spirit of the rule" ... but this year and moving forward, there are going to be more calls away from the ball especially when it comes to physicality and movement. While many people want the calls to be centered around where the ball is on the court, that is NOT how the rules were written and that's not how coaches want them game being, in this case, not called.

[GoPerry]

I'll include this paragraph, a quote from Michael regarding the prayer circle at center court at the conclusion of a game: "These are still the competitors we just finished beating up against, but praying lets us remember that it's just a game in the grand scheme of things. In short, we pray with other teams to help keep basketball in perspective."

This leads to an interesting point, seeing as how North Park is going to be playing Wheaton at King Arena a little over 48 hours from now. I didn't mention it in my WC @ NPU game recap, but there was no postgame prayer circle in the crackerbox on January 13. The absence of the prayer circle was a big surprise, since it seems like Wheaton regularly holds a prayer circle in most sports. It was lively fodder for discussion afterwards among those of us who were there, since on the surface you'd think that North Park, as the CCIW's only other evangelical school, would be the one opponent with which Wheaton would always hold a prayer circle. It wasn't as though it was a rough-and-tumble game with lots of hard feelings, either; in fact, since the NPU students weren't on hand for the game (NPU was still on winter break), it was probably the most mild-mannered men's basketball game ever played against Wheaton in the history of the crackerbox. I'd be interested in knowing what prompted the Wheaton team not to try to hold the postgame prayer that night.

I do know that a lot of people at North Park have mixed feelings (or worse) about that particular Wheaton tradition. It's not that there's some sort of true religious divide between the two schools (although some of the more uninformed and/or judgmental people at both schools have promoted that idea). Without getting into a whole big biblical debate here, let's just say that the Sermon on the Mount has been cited by the NPU detractors of Wheaton's prayer circle (Matthew 6:5-6 in particular, for those of you who need the reference. )

On a personal level I don't have an issue with Wheaton's prayer circle, because I think that, for most Wheaton student-athletes, their heart is in the right place. But it's not a gesture with which others who share their faith necessarily agree.

(Perhaps the solution is to have the two teams pray somewhere other than the middle of the court.)

I'm actually glad you mentioned this GS.  I didn't view the game @ NPU this year, but I think I recall that there was no prayer circle following the game last year at the Crackerbox either because I remember thinking it odd that there wasn't?  Or maybe I was thinking of a different team?  My only thought is/was that Tom Slyder or others at NPU had politely requested they not do it or otherwise did not grant permission which of course should be perfectly fine with Wheaton and thus respected.  Might that be it?  In any case, I expect to see it at King in a couple nights.

I suppose it is the world in which we live that a few would presume the worst motives.  From what I've observed, it is done win or lose, home or away, close game or blowout, chippy game or not and of course completely voluntary for the opposing players.  In fact, I will admit to still being surprised at how many opposing players do participate in that it's usually the majority.  And it's not just the Thunder M/W Basketball teams that do this.  Many if not most of the other Thunder teams try to make this their practice.

Interesting point of view on the Wheaton prayer circle. I am familiar with the practice here on the east coast as Messiah has a similar ritual after games.

I can't remember if I was ever asked to participate in my playing days with any school, but I always find it as a bit of an awkward situation that leaves the opponent in a no-win situation. Now, before I continue I will say that some coaches I have spoken to about this (not students as it hasn't been appropriate to do so) haven't seen it in such a way, but I also am not sure they aren't just being PC with me. However, I find it puts the opponent in a situation that they would be seen as being disrespectful for not participating especially if asked. I know schools like Messiah will state that they are certainly not offended and respect another team or players rights not to participate, but from an outsider's point of view - or a person in the stand - they may not appreciate those simple facts. The visual is a team, player, coach walking away especially if it is taking place on their own field (Messiah, Wheaton, whomever being the visitor). I think other teams are put in a spot where they feel they would be disrespectful should they say no or the optics of them not participating would be misconstrued by someone looking on.

Now, I don't in any way want to say that these schools and teams should not have a moment of reflection or prayer after a game, but maybe there should be somewhere or timing that is more subtle. Not sure I understand why it has to take place at midcourt, center circle in all of these sports. It brings attention to the team and thus the awkwardness described above. I am sure the meaning of the prayer or moment of reflection doesn't lose it's power or meaning if it happens next to the bench or in the locker room.

I am probably a little more hyper-aware of perception considering I traveled the world in an organization that has been the butt of jokes for the fact we seem to always be smiling (and singing). However, whatever I or my friends/cast did was very visual and thus under a spotlight, in a fish bowl, especially in small towns. We learned to be smart in our surroundings and especially respect the situations we were in - not take over or put ourselves at the center of attention (unless we were performing - I mean that is a clear difference LOL).

On the flip side, others didn't respect necessarily the point of view myself or my friends game from. I cannot tell you how many times I or others were put in some rather awkward situations because we didn't feel we could say no or not participate without being disrespectful... despite the fact the family or others might have been in a similar situation as Wheaton, Messiah, or others, and would have completely understood. That is a tough gamble to make in one's head in the spur of the moment.

Maybe I am making too much of this, but it has been on my mind for a number of years as I watch it play out more and more often. I will freely admit... I might be making far more of it than others or it needs to be. I just find it one of the more awkward situations to put student-athletes who are not of the participating institution(s).

I remember Kent Raymond's senior year, Ryan Burks and just 2 or 3 other Elmhurst players were the only ones to join the prayer circle at King Arena(WC and EC were the top league dogs that bracket-of-death year).  I have also seen plenty of instances where not all the opposing players participate and it is all perfectly fine. (Coach Mike Schauer doesn't participate home or away and neither did Harris)  It's not being disrespectful at all, it is simply their choice.  Yes, I'm sure plenty participate because the whole team is doing so but they are otherwise ambivalent. That's not a problem either.  In my mind, these are all college students, making lots of their own decisions already and will be making plenty more of them before and after graduation.  These are choices they will be expected to make for themselves and politely decline if they feel so led.  No questions asked, no hard feelings.

[GoPerry]

Speaking of which, congrats to Juwan Henry upon being named CCIW Player of the Week for the fourth time this season. Back in November Bob bemoaned the fact that Bryce Dolan didn't win the award in a week in which he had a 37-point game, most likely because IWU lost that game. Well, I think that we may have finally found the threshold that a player has to reach in order to win PotW in a week in which his team loses: 72 points in two games, including the second-highest single-game point total in school history.

Winning four PotW awards would seem to indicate that the coaches are leaning towards naming Juwan to the first team for the second year in a row, and that's he's got a solid shot at MOP, but I'm not taking anything for granted on either front. Only three players over the past decade and a half have won at least four PotWs in a season (Joel Kolmodin, Kent Raymond, and Steve Djurickovic, with all three doing it in two different seasons), and the only time that one of them failed to win the MOP was in 2001-02, when Kolmodin won it five times but Antoine McDaniel (who only won it once that season) was named the MOP. Of course, it needs to be pointed out that the league was very promiscuous in handing out PotWs back then, giving the award to more than one player per week on multiple occasions (Kolmodin shared it twice that year, once with two other players).

Meanwhile, Juwan's 11th in D3 in scoring at 24.4 ppg, fourth in total points, and is ranked in nine of the CCIW's 13 categories in overall stats. In terms of CCIW-only stats, he's having an even more impressive time of it, ranking in 10 of the 13 categories (including second in trey %, by the way) and practically lapping the field in terms of scoring, as his 26.6 ppg is seven points higher than his nearest competitor (who happens to be his teammate, Jordan Robinson). I mean, for crying out loud, he's among the league leaders (both overall and in CCIW play) in blocked shots, and he's freaking 5'10!

I know that I'm being Captain Obvious in saying this, but Juwan Henry is, simply put, a phenomenal all-around basketball player at this level. It's a privilege and a pleasure to see him play in a North Park uni.

Seems to me that Juwan Henry is a shoo-in for MOP, the only other competition being teammate Jordan Robinson and NCC's Sorenson in my mind- which also means they all deserve to be 1st team All CCIW.  That does make me wonder, however, if MOP might be in jeopardy if NPU fails to get into the CCIW tournament?  Or put another way, how many MOPs have there been from a team that did not finish in the top half of the league?  I would say Henry has separated himself enough that he deserves it either way but we've discussed in prior seasons how that all goes.

[Gregory Sager]

I'll include this paragraph, a quote from Michael regarding the prayer circle at center court at the conclusion of a game: "These are still the competitors we just finished beating up against, but praying lets us remember that it's just a game in the grand scheme of things. In short, we pray with other teams to help keep basketball in perspective."

This leads to an interesting point, seeing as how North Park is going to be playing Wheaton at King Arena a little over 48 hours from now. I didn't mention it in my WC @ NPU game recap, but there was no postgame prayer circle in the crackerbox on January 13. The absence of the prayer circle was a big surprise, since it seems like Wheaton regularly holds a prayer circle in most sports. It was lively fodder for discussion afterwards among those of us who were there, since on the surface you'd think that North Park, as the CCIW's only other evangelical school, would be the one opponent with which Wheaton would always hold a prayer circle. It wasn't as though it was a rough-and-tumble game with lots of hard feelings, either; in fact, since the NPU students weren't on hand for the game (NPU was still on winter break), it was probably the most mild-mannered men's basketball game ever played against Wheaton in the history of the crackerbox. I'd be interested in knowing what prompted the Wheaton team not to try to hold the postgame prayer that night.

I do know that a lot of people at North Park have mixed feelings (or worse) about that particular Wheaton tradition. It's not that there's some sort of true religious divide between the two schools (although some of the more uninformed and/or judgmental people at both schools have promoted that idea). Without getting into a whole big biblical debate here, let's just say that the Sermon on the Mount has been cited by the NPU detractors of Wheaton's prayer circle (Matthew 6:5-6 in particular, for those of you who need the reference. )

On a personal level I don't have an issue with Wheaton's prayer circle, because I think that, for most Wheaton student-athletes, their heart is in the right place. But it's not a gesture with which others who share their faith necessarily agree.

(Perhaps the solution is to have the two teams pray somewhere other than the middle of the court.)

I'm actually glad you mentioned this GS.  I didn't view the game @ NPU this year, but I think I recall that there was no prayer circle following the game last year at the Crackerbox either because I remember thinking it odd that there wasn't?  Or maybe I was thinking of a different team?

I'm pretty sure that it took place last season. That's why it was a topic of conversation this season, when it didn't happen.

My only thought is/was that Tom Slyder or others at NPU had politely requested they not do it or otherwise did not grant permission which of course should be perfectly fine with Wheaton and thus respected.  Might that be it?

No, that wasn't the case, unless it came from higher up ... and I certainly can't imagine NPU AD Jack Surridge or NPU President David Parkyn putting the kibosh on it.

In any case, I expect to see it at King in a couple nights.

... and I expect to see it at the crackerbox after the WC @ NPU women's game.

I suppose it is the world in which we live that a few would presume the worst motives.

Well, maybe less "the world we live in" and more "the world North Park lives in, in which Wheaton College is typically the primary punching bag with regard to certain popular American expressions of evangelicalism" in this case.

From what I've observed, it is done win or lose, home or away, close game or blowout, chippy game or not and of course completely voluntary for the opposing players.  In fact, I will admit to still being surprised at how many opposing players do participate in that it's usually the majority.  And it's not just the Thunder M/W Basketball teams that do this.  Many if not most of the other Thunder teams try to make this their practice.

Oh, it's a long-standing tradition of which most NPU student-athletes learn as soon as they play a Wheaton team for the first time. No question that it's voluntary, and that nobody is pressured to take part in it, at least as far as I know in terms of how NPU coaches handle it.

I just think that Wheaton's detractors on the NPU campus would have less reason to be opposed to it, or at least ambivalent about it, if it was done in a less conspicuous place than center court, or midfield, or the middle of whichever playing venue the two teams happened to use. Never give another Christian school biblical ammunition.

Interesting point of view on the Wheaton prayer circle. I am familiar with the practice here on the east coast as Messiah has a similar ritual after games.

I can't remember if I was ever asked to participate in my playing days with any school, but I always find it as a bit of an awkward situation that leaves the opponent in a no-win situation. Now, before I continue I will say that some coaches I have spoken to about this (not students as it hasn't been appropriate to do so) haven't seen it in such a way, but I also am not sure they aren't just being PC with me. However, I find it puts the opponent in a situation that they would be seen as being disrespectful for not participating especially if asked. I know schools like Messiah will state that they are certainly not offended and respect another team or players rights not to participate, but from an outsider's point of view - or a person in the stand - they may not appreciate those simple facts. The visual is a team, player, coach walking away especially if it is taking place on their own field (Messiah, Wheaton, whomever being the visitor). I think other teams are put in a spot where they feel they would be disrespectful should they say no or the optics of them not participating would be misconstrued by someone looking on.

Now, I don't in any way want to say that these schools and teams should not have a moment of reflection or prayer after a game, but maybe there should be somewhere or timing that is more subtle. Not sure I understand why it has to take place at midcourt, center circle in all of these sports. It brings attention to the team and thus the awkwardness described above. I am sure the meaning of the prayer or moment of reflection doesn't lose it's power or meaning if it happens next to the bench or in the locker room.

I am probably a little more hyper-aware of perception considering I traveled the world in an organization that has been the butt of jokes for the fact we seem to always be smiling (and singing). However, whatever I or my friends/cast did was very visual and thus under a spotlight, in a fish bowl, especially in small towns. We learned to be smart in our surroundings and especially respect the situations we were in - not take over or put ourselves at the center of attention (unless we were performing - I mean that is a clear difference LOL).

On the flip side, others didn't respect necessarily the point of view myself or my friends game from. I cannot tell you how many times I or others were put in some rather awkward situations because we didn't feel we could say no or not participate without being disrespectful... despite the fact the family or others might have been in a similar situation as Wheaton, Messiah, or others, and would have completely understood. That is a tough gamble to make in one's head in the spur of the moment.

Maybe I am making too much of this, but it has been on my mind for a number of years as I watch it play out more and more often. I will freely admit... I might be making far more of it than others or it needs to be. I just find it one of the more awkward situations to put student-athletes who are not of the participating institution(s).

I remember Kent Raymond's senior year, Ryan Burks and just 2 or 3 other Elmhurst players were the only ones to join the prayer circle at King Arena(WC and EC were the top league dogs that bracket-of-death year).  I have also seen plenty of instances where not all the opposing players participate and it is all perfectly fine. (Coach Mike Schauer doesn't participate home or away and neither did Harris)  It's not being disrespectful at all, it is simply their choice.  Yes, I'm sure plenty participate because the whole team is doing so but they are otherwise ambivalent. That's not a problem either.  In my mind, these are all college students, making lots of their own decisions already and will be making plenty more of them before and after graduation.  These are choices they will be expected to make for themselves and politely decline if they feel so led.  No questions asked, no hard feelings.

Well said, GP.

[AppletonRocks]

I pray for everyone in the CCIW and the WIAC and the MWC.   No charge. 

[Gregory Sager]

Seems to me that Juwan Henry is a shoo-in for MOP, the only other competition being teammate Jordan Robinson and NCC's Sorenson in my mind- which also means they all deserve to be 1st team All CCIW.  That does make me wonder, however, if MOP might be in jeopardy if NPU fails to get into the CCIW tournament?  Or put another way, how many MOPs have there been from a team that did not finish in the top half of the league?  I would say Henry has separated himself enough that he deserves it either way but we've discussed in prior seasons how that all goes.

For the record, no MOP award has been handed out to a player from a second-division team in the current (eight-team, post-Carroll) era. Steve Djurickovic did win it for Carthage in 2010-11 when the Red Men didn't qualify for the CCIW tourney, but Carthage finished in a three-way tie for third with Wheaton and Illinois Wesleyan that season; the Red Men were the odd team out in terms of tiebreakers.

Going back further, Alonzo Alexander of North Central won the award in 1991-92, the last season that Carroll was in the league, in spite of the fact that the Cardinals finished in a tie for fifth with Millikin at 8-8. Jeff Kuehl of Illinois Wesleyan won it in 1988-89 in a season in which IWU tied with Carroll for fourth at 7-9. (How do you determine "upper half" and "lower half" of a nine-team league, anyway? )

The only clear-cut case in CCIW history of a player from a second-division team winning the MOP was in 1985-86, when Steve Albinger of Carroll won the award. The Pioneers finished 4-12 in CCIW play that season, tied for seventh with Elmhurst.

[izzy stradlin]

Speaking of which, congrats to Juwan Henry upon being named CCIW Player of the Week for the fourth time this season. Back in November Bob bemoaned the fact that Bryce Dolan didn't win the award in a week in which he had a 37-point game, most likely because IWU lost that game. Well, I think that we may have finally found the threshold that a player has to reach in order to win PotW in a week in which his team loses: 72 points in two games, including the second-highest single-game point total in school history.

Winning four PotW awards would seem to indicate that the coaches are leaning towards naming Juwan to the first team for the second year in a row, and that's he's got a solid shot at MOP, but I'm not taking anything for granted on either front. Only three players over the past decade and a half have won at least four PotWs in a season (Joel Kolmodin, Kent Raymond, and Steve Djurickovic, with all three doing it in two different seasons), and the only time that one of them failed to win the MOP was in 2001-02, when Kolmodin won it five times but Antoine McDaniel (who only won it once that season) was named the MOP. Of course, it needs to be pointed out that the league was very promiscuous in handing out PotWs back then, giving the award to more than one player per week on multiple occasions (Kolmodin shared it twice that year, once with two other players).

Meanwhile, Juwan's 11th in D3 in scoring at 24.4 ppg, fourth in total points, and is ranked in nine of the CCIW's 13 categories in overall stats. In terms of CCIW-only stats, he's having an even more impressive time of it, ranking in 10 of the 13 categories (including second in trey %, by the way) and practically lapping the field in terms of scoring, as his 26.6 ppg is seven points higher than his nearest competitor (who happens to be his teammate, Jordan Robinson). I mean, for crying out loud, he's among the league leaders (both overall and in CCIW play) in blocked shots, and he's freaking 5'10!

I know that I'm being Captain Obvious in saying this, but Juwan Henry is, simply put, a phenomenal all-around basketball player at this level. It's a privilege and a pleasure to see him play in a North Park uni.

Captain Obvious, I think Juwan is a good bet for MOP.  Regarding PotWs, I think you mixed up years. Kolmodin sat out the 2001-02 season when McDaniel grabbed MOP.   Joel received multiple PotW awards in the 2002-03 season when he returned and did win MOP.   I'm pretty sure Juwan in safe.  BTW, thanks for bring up the names of Kolmodin and Raymond during these times of Thunder basketball darkness.    Good memories.   I watched a bit of the Wheaton at IWU broadcast a few weeks ago and the best part was when the IWU broadcast team went on for a few minutes about all the great performances by previous Thunder players at the Shirk. 

On the prayer issue, I believe that the Wheaton players have good intentions, but I am not a huge fan of it.  It just feels a little forced to me.  It was mentioned that the intention is to put the game in perspective, but I think it actually does the opposite.  In other words, the importance of this game requires us to stop and pray together.  Again, just feels forced.     

[Gregory Sager]

Speaking of which, congrats to Juwan Henry upon being named CCIW Player of the Week for the fourth time this season. Back in November Bob bemoaned the fact that Bryce Dolan didn't win the award in a week in which he had a 37-point game, most likely because IWU lost that game. Well, I think that we may have finally found the threshold that a player has to reach in order to win PotW in a week in which his team loses: 72 points in two games, including the second-highest single-game point total in school history.

Winning four PotW awards would seem to indicate that the coaches are leaning towards naming Juwan to the first team for the second year in a row, and that's he's got a solid shot at MOP, but I'm not taking anything for granted on either front. Only three players over the past decade and a half have won at least four PotWs in a season (Joel Kolmodin, Kent Raymond, and Steve Djurickovic, with all three doing it in two different seasons), and the only time that one of them failed to win the MOP was in 2001-02, when Kolmodin won it five times but Antoine McDaniel (who only won it once that season) was named the MOP. Of course, it needs to be pointed out that the league was very promiscuous in handing out PotWs back then, giving the award to more than one player per week on multiple occasions (Kolmodin shared it twice that year, once with two other players).

Meanwhile, Juwan's 11th in D3 in scoring at 24.4 ppg, fourth in total points, and is ranked in nine of the CCIW's 13 categories in overall stats. In terms of CCIW-only stats, he's having an even more impressive time of it, ranking in 10 of the 13 categories (including second in trey %, by the way) and practically lapping the field in terms of scoring, as his 26.6 ppg is seven points higher than his nearest competitor (who happens to be his teammate, Jordan Robinson). I mean, for crying out loud, he's among the league leaders (both overall and in CCIW play) in blocked shots, and he's freaking 5'10!

I know that I'm being Captain Obvious in saying this, but Juwan Henry is, simply put, a phenomenal all-around basketball player at this level. It's a privilege and a pleasure to see him play in a North Park uni.

Captain Obvious, I think Juwan is a good bet for MOP.  Regarding PotWs, I think you mixed up years. Kolmodin sat out the 2001-02 season when McDaniel grabbed MOP.   Joel received multiple PotW awards in the 2002-03 season when he returned and did win MOP.

You're right ... although, in my defense, the list of PotWs for the 2001-02 season is actually the list for 2002-03 on the CCIW website.

[AndOne]

Re the Wheaton after-game prayer circle.........

Immediately after completion of the handshake line on Sat, it appeared to me that every single NCC player and coach almost immediately headed to center court to join with the Wheaties. In fact, I think more Cardinals got to the center circle more quickly, and began to form than did most of the WC contingent. Nothing appeared forced in any way, and it looked to be an entirely natural process. However, I don't think there would have been any problems whatsoever had any of the Cardinals, for whatever reason, chosen not to participate.

This was the complete reversal of the post game events between the teams when they played in The Hangar a few years ago. WC won by a couple of points and the Wheaton students stormed the Gregory Arena court. In response the NCC players were demonstratively waived to the locker room. I don't even think there was a handshake line completed. No shaking hands, and certainly no praying with a team whose fans stormed OUR court. 

Mike Schauer really doesn't participate with his team in the post-game prayer?? Not sure exactly why, but i find this somewhat shocking.