MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

I don't see why it's so shocking. I don't recall Wheaton coaches in other sports ever participating in the postgame prayer circle. (Perhaps Mike Swider does, but he's a maverick by Wheaton standards in every sense of the word. ) I think that the understanding at Wheaton is that it's a players' thing, just like the introduction line and all of the little rituals involved with it.

Besides, Mike Schauer has other postgame responsibilities. He's gotta go over to the media table, put on the headset, and do his postgame interview with the Wheaton broadcasters. Like Bosko Djurickovic and Ron Rose, he's very faithful about giving the broadcasters a few minutes of his time right after the game.

[izzy stradlin]

This was the complete reversal of the post game events between the teams when they played in The Hangar a few years ago. WC won by a couple of points and the Wheaton students stormed the Gregory Arena court. In response the NCC players were demonstratively waived to the locker room. I don't even think there was a handshake line completed. No shaking hands, and certainly no praying with a team whose fans stormed OUR court. 

Awwwww.  Did that hurt your feelings?  I'm sorry if it did.

[izzy stradlin]

I don't see why it's so shocking. I don't recall Wheaton coaches in other sports ever participating in the postgame prayer circle. (Perhaps Mike Swider does, but he's a maverick by Wheaton standards in every sense of the word. ) I think that the understanding at Wheaton is that it's a players' thing, just like the introduction line and all of the little rituals involved with it.

Swider is definitely a maverick but the football team doesn't do a post game prayer with the opponents.  When I was at Wheaton, almost none of the teams did.  It started with the players only around the time of Joel Kolmodin and Jon Nielson.

Besides, Mike Schauer has other postgame responsibilities. He's gotta go over to the media table, put on the headset, and do his postgame interview with the Wheaton broadcasters. Like Bosko Djurickovic and Ron Rose, he's very faithful about giving the broadcasters a few minutes of his time right after the game.

Schauer has actually been skipping a majority of post game interviews of late.  Things are not good in Wheaton basketball land. 

[Gregory Sager]

I could've sworn that I've seen prayer circles after NPU/WC football games, but I could be wrong about that. Football postgames tend to be chaotic, anyway, what with families and friends wandering out onto the field and all.

[AndOne]

I don't see why it's so shocking. I don't recall Wheaton coaches in other sports ever participating in the postgame prayer circle. (Perhaps Mike Swider does, but he's a maverick by Wheaton standards in every sense of the word. ) I think that the understanding at Wheaton is that it's a players' thing, just like the introduction line and all of the little rituals involved with it.

Besides, Mike Schauer has other postgame responsibilities. He's gotta go over to the media table, put on the headset, and do his postgame interview with the Wheaton broadcasters. Like Bosko Djurickovic and Ron Rose, he's very faithful about giving the broadcasters a few minutes of his time right after the game.

It's shocking given the fact that the head coach is the leader of his team, and when a Wheaton team prays after a game its an extension of the school's philosophy and ideals. Accordingly, it seems like the leader/person in charge, should be an active participant in the exercise. JMHO 😮

And, as far as his "responsibilities," I sense the broadcasters wouldn't have a stroke if they had to wait the possibly 30 seconds it takes to complete the prayer. 

[AndOne]

This was the complete reversal of the post game events between the teams when they played in The Hangar a few years ago. WC won by a couple of points and the Wheaton students stormed the Gregory Arena court. In response the NCC players were demonstratively waived to the locker room. I don't even think there was a handshake line completed. No shaking hands, and certainly no praying with a team whose fans stormed OUR court. 

Awwwww.  Did that hurt your feelings?  I'm sorry if it did.

Sorry Izzy, but thats a load of crap that nobody is buying. Neither my feelings nor any other parts were hurt. And if they were, you would be about as sorry as I am that we have now beaten Wheaton the last five times we've played.   

[AndOne]

I could've sworn that I've seen prayer circles after NPU/WC football games, but I could be wrong about that. Football postgames tend to be chaotic, anyway, what with families and friends wandering out onto the field and all.

I think the Wheaton and NCC football teams got together after the game this past season. Doubtful they were exchanging stories about their Netflix viewing experiences. 

[GoPerry]

I don't see why it's so shocking. I don't recall Wheaton coaches in other sports ever participating in the postgame prayer circle. (Perhaps Mike Swider does, but he's a maverick by Wheaton standards in every sense of the word. ) I think that the understanding at Wheaton is that it's a players' thing, just like the introduction line and all of the little rituals involved with it.

I think this is exactly right - the overall sense is that the players initiate it (it's a player that prays) although coaches/asst coaches can participate also and once in a while even a student or two.  I don't at all watch for it, but the only head coach that I believe ever recall seeing joining in was Grey Giovanine.  Others probably have but I simply haven't noticed.

I could've sworn that I've seen prayer circles after NPU/WC football games, but I could be wrong about that. Football postgames tend to be chaotic, anyway, what with families and friends wandering out onto the field and all.

Yes, I don't think the football team does this- probably as a matter of practicality (80 players/team x 2, in a circle?) more than anything.

Re the Wheaton after-game prayer circle.........

Immediately after completion of the handshake line on Sat, it appeared to me that every single NCC player and coach almost immediately headed to center court to join with the Wheaties. In fact, I think more Cardinals got to the center circle more quickly, and began to form than did most of the WC contingent. Nothing appeared forced in any way, and it looked to be an entirely natural process. However, I don't think there would have been any problems whatsoever had any of the Cardinals, for whatever reason, chosen not to participate.

This was the complete reversal of the post game events between the teams when they played in The Hangar a few years ago. WC won by a couple of points and the Wheaton students stormed the Gregory Arena court. In response the NCC players were demonstratively waived to the locker room. I don't even think there was a handshake line completed. No shaking hands, and certainly no praying with a team whose fans stormed OUR court. 

.

Even after fans storm the court because of an upset - and let's face it, anytime WC wins in the Hangar it's an upset because we simply can't shoot the ball in that cavern of a place (said with affection), I believe players should always make an effort to shake hands.  Sometimes the way a game ends doesn't allow it to happen and I doubt players take it personally, but every effort should be made as a matter of practice in respect for the competition and your opponents.

Holding/not holding the after game prayer circle is different- especially for away games.  The Wheaton team does it, the opposing team is invited to join in completely voluntarily, it is pretty brief, done fairly quickly, without fanfare and without being unduly obtrusive.  So it's not a deal-breaker type of thing where you would clear fans off the court just so they can hold the prayer circle on an opposing court.   And no one needs to explain themselves (even Mike Schauer) if they choose not to join in.

Having said that, I am curious as to why it didn't happen at NPU last month (or other times when it hasn't happened).

Schauer has actually been skipping a majority of post game interviews of late.  Things are not good in Wheaton basketball land.

Yes, he has skipped a few lately.  But how many different ways can you say 'we're young', 'we struggled offensively', 'this season is a process', etc . . .

[badgerwarhawk]

Regarding the Demetrius Randle call with 2.2 seconds left: I think Randle is one of the better CCIW refs. If Straughter was in fact "run over," he made the courageous and correct call. A similar play occurred at Shirk on Mar. 7, 2014 in a 1st round D3 tourney game vs. Webster. IWU was up one after 2 FTs with 8 seconds left. Webster inbounded and their star dribbled down the court. His teammate set a hard pick on Brady Zimmer with 4 seconds left. Zimmer fell (flopped maybe) to the floor and the ref made the call and IWU escaped and made it to the Final 4. There were a lot of chat posts on that very controversial call. Grey is such a good coach and I'm sure he designed the play in order to have a chance for the call.

With all due respect, that's not a similar call at all. That's a live ball foul, this was on an inbounds play dead-ball sitch. Every coach in the world tries to get this call, most time they set a pick on the inbound defender (if the inbound passer can run the baseline) and try to get him to run him over, it's usually so obvious a ploy that the refs don't call it. It's very unusual to get them to blow the whistle with two seconds left on an inbounds play. VERY unusual...like I said, oh well....

Obviously I didn't see the foul but I wanted to clarify one thing regarding live ball/dead ball status.  On a throw-in the ball becomes live when it is at the disposal of the thrower-in even though the clock is not running.  There are a couple of situations in basketball (at least college and high school) in which the ball is live but the clock is not running.  In addition to the throw-in it's also a live ball when the ball is placed at the disposal of the shooter during a free throw.  This is rule six (Live Ball/Dead Ball) in the NCAA rule book.  Again I didn't see the foul but based on his description both occurred during a live ball by rule even though the clock was running in one case and stopped in the other.

You're technically correct regarding the "live ball" vs. "dead ball" language, bw. But Rob's right that the Webster @ IWU scenario and the NPU @ AC scenario were two distinctly different situations, and that: a) what Grey Giovanine tried to set up (and succeeded at) is something that every coach tries in that situation; and b) it's extremely rare that a foul gets called off of it.

Yes, I agree with you and Rob as far as that goes.  My only intent was to clarify the rule.  I guess it's the official in me. 

[robberki]

Now I'm not super familiar with North Park or anything, but I'd put the chances of NPU asking someone to not have a prayer circle at about the same as Blutarsky's GPA.

[79jaybird]

I hope NC can find the game they had against Elmhurst at the Hangar on Wednesday.  That night NC had it operating at a high level of efficiency. They'll need it Wed vs. Augie. 

My two cents on the prayer issue-   I have no problem with thanking the all mighty for your athletic talents and the opportunity to play the game.  God gives you great things so taking a moment to thank HIM,  is a good idea.

[AndOne]

New poll is out and finds Augie remaining as #2, Elmhurst dropping from #6 to #9, and North Central rising from #17 to #13.
Angie visits The Hangar and NCC tomorrow evening where the Cardinals will try to avenge the 76-49 shellacking they took in Rock Island on Jan 13th. The winner takes sole possession of 1st place in the conference with four games remaining.

Of the Cardinals five losses this season, all have come to teams ranked in the top 30 in the country:

To current #21 (then #17) Chicago (14-4) by 13
To current #30 Aurora (16-3) by 3
To current #12 Alma (15-4) by 1
To current #3 (then #7) Benedictine (20-0) by 2
To current #2 (then #3) Augie (19-1) as above.

Current poll:

http://d3hoops.com/top25/men/2015-16/week8

[AndOne]

I don't see why it's so shocking. I don't recall Wheaton coaches in other sports ever participating in the postgame prayer circle. (Perhaps Mike Swider does, but he's a maverick by Wheaton standards in every sense of the word. ) I think that the understanding at Wheaton is that it's a players' thing, just like the introduction line and all of the little rituals involved with it.

I think this is exactly right - the overall sense is that the players initiate it (it's a player that prays) although coaches/asst coaches can participate also and once in a while even a student or two.  I don't at all watch for it, but the only head coach that I believe ever recall seeing joining in was Grey Giovanine.  Others probably have but I simply haven't noticed.

I'm 99% sure that all 4 of the NCC coaches took part Sat. night. I know for sure that NCC HC Todd Raridon was one of the participants. I guess thats why I found it odd that his counterpart was not in the circle with his team.

[AndOne]

Congrats to Juwan Henry upon being named CCIW Player of the Week for the fourth time this season.
Winning four PotW awards would seem to indicate that the coaches are leaning towards naming Juwan to the first team for the second year in a row, and that's he's got a solid shot at MOP, but I'm not taking anything for granted on either front.

Juwan's 11th in D3 in scoring at 24.4 ppg, fourth in total points, and is ranked in nine of the CCIW's 13 categories in overall stats. In terms of CCIW-only stats, he's having an even more impressive time of it, ranking in 10 of the 13 categories (including second in trey %, by the way) and practically lapping the field in terms of scoring, as his 26.6 ppg is seven points higher than his nearest competitor (who happens to be his teammate, Jordan Robinson). I mean, for crying out loud, he's among the league leaders (both overall and in CCIW play) in blocked shots, and he's freaking 5'10!

I know that I'm being Captain Obvious in saying this, but Juwan Henry is, simply put, a phenomenal all-around basketball player at this level. It's a privilege and a pleasure to see him play in a North Park uni.

Although he was named to the 1st team last year, his election was, surprisingly, not unanimous. In fact, I believe the reason the 1st team had 6 players last year was because Henry tied for the 5th most first team votes. What that means is that more than one coach did not vote for Juwan for some unexplainable reason(s).

So, Gregory, in light of last year's voting results, it appears you really can't campaign too much. Although you label yourself as obvious with regard to your level of support, what should be obvious to all, isn't always the case. Accordingly, you need to be "obvious" in certain cases. Given your level of correctness, this appears to be one of those cases. 

[AndOne]

I believe that historically each team gets at least one player on the all-conference team.

Nope. On numerous occasions there's been teams that had either one conference win or none at all that have been shut out of All-CCIW honors.

This year, I don't anticipate either Wheaton or Millikin getting shut out. Michael Berg is a more than valid All-CCIW pick who ranks pretty high in both the scoring and rebounding categories (both overall and CCIW-only), and, while MU has less of a standout pick than does Wheaton, I suspect that T.J. Griffin has done well enough, at least at this point, to merit a third-team nod from the coaches. (I don't think that the CCIW braintrust would be as likely to reward Tommy Pilackas or T.J. "the Human Rollercoaster" Sims.)

Right now my 1st team all-conference players would be (keeping in mind the voters don't necessarily follow a "regular" 2 guard, 2 forward, center lineup:

G - Henry, NPU
G - Hill, Augie
C/F - Sorenson, NCC
F - Robinson, NPU
F - Ryan, Augie

2nd team

G - Griffin, Millikin
G/F - Raridon, NCC
C - Nixon, Elmhurst
F - Seibring, IWU
F - Berg, Wheaton

3rd team has a multitude of possibilities. Not ready to make selections at this point, but in keeping with the at least one player per team, would include Kedrowski of Carthage.

I understand that it's your team that you've posted here, rather than your prediction of how the All-CCIW team will actually appear. Of course, Chuck is right that Kyle Wuest will make either first team or second team, and I suspect that Will Nixon might creep onto second team as well. On the other hand, Chuck's overestimating the season that Bryce Dolan has had.

(All of this could change, of course. After all, there's five games left in the second round-robin, and five games is more than a third of the entire CCIW slate.)

Kedrowski? You're clearly not following Carthage very closely, Mark. Over the course of his last three games, Jordon Kedrowski has:

* scored four points in 17 minutes against Wheaton (while posting a 0:3 a:to, which is horrible for a point guard);
* scored zero points in 24 minutes against North Park (0-6 from the field, and another atrocious a:to of 0:5); and
* scored three points in four minutes against Illinois Wesleyan.

As mwunder indicated, Kedrowski seems to be deep in Bosko's doghouse right now. Talented freshman or not, he is not playing very good basketball at all. He may be Carthage's leading scorer (although not by much), but he's underwater for the overall season in a:to, and in CCIW games his a:to is 10:25, a number that you'd expect to see for a ham-handed center rather than for the team's primary distributor. And, like most freshman guards, he's still very much a work-in-progress as far as defense is concerned. He's a promising young player and a nice piece for Bosko to build around ... but he's not All-CCIW material at this point, and he's certainly not going to give Connor Raridon a run for his money for CCIW Freshman of the Year.

If you're looking for a Carthage pick for All-CCIW -- and I don't see the Red Men providing anything other than a single third-teamer -- look at Brad Kruse (who is one of the better defenders in the league), Mike Stevenson (who has averaged 18 and 5 over Carthage's last three games), or Kiston Lee (who just had a terrific 12 and 16 night against Illinois Wesleyan).

I'm sure there will be disagreements. Instead of slamming me/my picks if you disagree, just give us yours. It would be interesting to see what people think. 

Thank you for not putting the words "no debating" next to your picks.

I'm not slamming your picks at all (well, except for Kedrowski ). I'm just reiterating something of which you're already aware, which is that the coaches are going to go with their tried-and-true method of apportioning All-CCIW picks based upon where the respective teams fall in the final standings ... a method of which I am particularly apprehensive this year, as I fear that it may cause them to balk at putting both Juwan Henry and Jordan Robinson on the first team.

* OK, I did some research. Over the past 15 seasons, there have been 4 in which a team failed to land even one player on the CCIW all-conference team. Is that "numerous"? 

Those occasions were:
2003-No Millikin representative
2006-No NPU
2012-No Millikin
2013-No NPU

* I obviously agree about TJ Griffin. He is current 12th in scoring, T8th in FG%, and 10th in assists. This without much help as he and TJ Sims basically are Millikin with some Tommy Pilackas thrown in. However, I'm not putting a player who has been suspended for part of the season on my team, even if it wasn't much, or any, of the conference portion of the season.

* Based on historical voting patterns which almost always see players named to the AC team based in great part on where their team finishes, I concede EC's Kyle Wuest will likely make the team. However, I feel it would be a travesty should he supplant any of the players I've mentioned for 1st team-and probably a couple I didn't. 2nd team, most likely, but why??
Yes, Wuest is currently 8th in conference scoring at 14.2 PPG. However, closer examination shows that he has scored 102 points on field goals, but that to score those 102 points, he has needed 105 FG attempts. Thats MORE shots than points--hardly what you would call efficient. Furthermore, being successful on only 41 of the 105 attempts, his 39% FG average is nowhere near the league's top 15. And while he does other things pretty well, his reputation, and what has garnered him the most attention so far. is primarily one of a shooter. But this year, he's not doing that so well. And defensively, he doesn't appear to have much interest. In his recent performance against North Central, the Cardinals could have played Mrs. Butterworth and Mr. Wuest would have had difficulty staying between her and the basket. I have been a supporter of Mr. Wuest in the past and continue to realize he is a good player. I think he was a little better last year than what he has showed so far this season, and that he was placed in accordance with how he played last year. This year I don't feel there is anyway in h-e-double hockey sticks that he should be 1st team. Second team-maybe. 3rd team-a definite yes. But, based on EC's likely high placement, i do believe we'll see him included with the 2nd unit.

* As far as "Chuck's overestimating the season that Bryce Dolan has had," I agree. he has some nice offensive stats. But he has never been known for his defense. The other thing that gives me pause is that while he has played considerable minutes in the last couple of games, senior Dolan has not started. Instead, he has been replaced in the starting lineup by a freshman who, over his last 5 games has shot 3 for 15, and who has committed 18 fouls. In fact, Dolan's replacement is a human fouling machine, having committed a foul every five minutes he has been on the floor this year. Shouldn't an all-conference player be getting those minutes?? It may be a moot point however because if Wesleyan finishes in 5th place in the conference, it is entirely possible that they will land only one player on the all-conference team. Thats IWU's best player and true all-conference performer, Trevor Seibring,

* No, I'm not really looking for a Carthage player for an all-conference pick. I don't think one is warranted, at least to this point of the season. I mentioned Kedrowski due to the frequent inclusion of at least one player from each team making AC. I think, taking the season so far as a whole, that he has been CC's best player, the last few games notwithstanding.

* Someone previously asked why I have Connor Raridon on the 2nd team and Ben Ryan on 1st. Again, the primary reasons are players often being named in relation to where their team finishes. If Augie, as widely presumed, finishes 1st, that will boost Ryan's chances. And Ryan presents the fine credentials of being T6th in scoring, 1st in rebounding, 7th in FG%, 14th in FT%, T15th in blocks, T1st in O rebounds, and 3rd in D rebounds. While I think Connor ranks highly in even more categories, I think the coaches are going to give the nod to a senior over a freshman in a close vote. However, if Connor should make 1st team AC, it would be richly deserved, and a choice of which there would be little room for disagreement.

Lastly, all of this is based on the season to date. There is still a lot of basketball to be played. A lot could chance between now and the end of the regular season.