MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

6. I'm disappointed but not surprised that Juwan Henry was not named the MOP. We're all well aware that the coaches treat the All-CCIW team as a spoils system rather than as a true barometer of player excellence. Augustana won the league, and to the victor go the spoils. They will always be likely to treat the MOP as more of a Most Valuable Player award (i.e., the best player on the best team) than what the honor ostensibly is, the Most Outstanding Player award (i.e., the best player, period). I'm not knocking Hunter Hill by saying that, as I think that he's truly a terrific D3 point guard and that his one critic who posts here makes no substantive arguments at all against the Augie star. I'm simply one of many people who follow this league, both NPU and non-NPU types, who think that Juwan Henry is the league's best player.

As for the fact that Juwan once again was not a unanimous first-team selection, I have a pretty good idea as to which coach declined to vote for him for first team. I sure hope that I'm wrong about that, because, if it is who I think it is, then it was a petty and vindictive snub that will cause me to lose some respect for this particular coach.

7. I'm more angry about Jordan Robinson being relegated to second team than I am about what happened to Juwan. Did none of the coaches happen to notice my post the other day that there are only four players in all of D3 who are averaging 20 and 10 for the season, and that Robinson was one of them? How in the world does the league's second-leading scorer (both CCIW and overall) and leading rebounder (both CCIW and overall) not make the first team? Yeah, yeah, I already know the answer: It's the spoils system. As a mediocre fifth-place team, North Park can't be excessively rewarded with individual honors. To do so would fly in the face of "how we've always done it," and coaches are a very conservative lot who put great stock in "how we've always done it" when it comes to this sort of thing. But just because we all know ahead of time how the coaches will operate does not make it right when they go ahead and do it.

8. This is all just picking over the bones, as far as I'm concerned. It's hard for me to work up too much of a lather over the ridiculous mindset of the coaches vis-a-vis the All-CCIW team when the real disappointment lies in the fact that the Vikings blew it. They had it in their hands, and they just plain blew it, losing five of their last six games. Now they'll have to spend the entire off-season asking themselves "what if" questions, given how narrow a losing margin they had in multiple games (especially the two OT losses at Elmhurst and Augustana). Sure, the team needs more help, especially up front, but that's a matter for the coaches to address. The players don't do the recruiting. What they can do is use the two straight seasons of just coming up short of the CCIW tourney as incentive to better themselves as players during the off-season, and that's what I'd like to see them do.

[izzy stradlin]

I was surprised that Jeremy Berntsen was named over Michael Berg for Wheaton.  But grateful that someone wearing  Orange/Blue got recognized.  I never believed both would be named from a 1-13 team.

Bernstsen came on strong beginning somewhere in the middle of the season, and was very good at the end. Berg played well basically all season so I think the nod should have gone to him. It certainly wasn't realistic to think more than one Wheatie would be chosen from a 1 win team.

Berg shot 40% from the field during the conference season.  That's a super low number for a PF/C and probably what did him in.   Nonetheless Berg and Berntsen were clearly Wheaton's top two players all year by a wide margin and they both graduate.   Wheaton likely takes another step back next year.   Anyone know how things are at ZRG?

A step back?  To where?  To the intramural A league(which is extremely competitive at Wheaton btw)??  They were 1-13/5-20! Even so, I think they will be better next year. 

Well it depends if Zach Lindquist and Luke Thorson are on the same IM team?  Seriously though I think you're engaging in some wishful thinking.  Wasn't it you who said Wheaton would make some noise this year and compete for fourth?

I said it at the end of last year and I'll say it again.  The cupboard is bare at Wheaton. Owen Handy and for a short time Nate Frank were a big part of Mike Schauer's early recruiting (well really, his first and only solid class in Peters, Kvam, Haynes, DeMoss).  With Owen and Nate long gone (Owen has had two great recent recruiting classed at Anderson), as Greg Sager outlined a few weeks ago, Wheaton/Schauer hasn't been landing quality recruits. It's not even that Wheaton has young talent-- non of the freshman had particularly strong showings with plenty of opportunity.  I'm thinking of previous good freshman campaigns at Wheaton (Rob Hamann, Luke Moo, Kevin Blomstrom, Joel Kolmodin, Kent Raymond, Tim McCrary, Tyler Peters) and it isn't on the roster right now. 

There has been some lingering in the Wheaton basketball program of the idea that they have more to overcome in recruiting than IWU, Augie NCC etc in that they can't have that kind of depth.  I don't buy this as Wheaton as much to sell and as many buyers as any school in the conference. Look at football, soccer (gulp), swimming, women's bball, etc.  I am not delusional enough to think they should win the conference every other year or even ever win a national hoops title, but at worst they should be close to .500.  11-14, 5-20 and likely something similar next year is simply unacceptable.   

[kiko]

Three thoughts on various and sundry posts above...

1. If I have a MOP vote, it goes to Hunter Hill, and that is absolutely no slight against Juwan Henry and the terrific season he has had.

2. This was buried in Titan Q's all-conference picks, but is a pretty impressive under-the-radar stat: Jamie Moten was 36-of-36 from the line this year in conference play.

3. All-conference teams by class:

Year	Senior	Junior	Sophomore	Freshman
2015-16	10	2	3	1
2014-15	6	7	1	2
2013-14	9	2	3	1
2012-13	6	6	2	2
2011-12	8	4	3	0
2010-11	7	6	2	1
2009-10	6	5	2	3
2008-09	10	4	2	0

This year's all-conference team had the most seniors among the 15/16 selections in eight years... and simultaneously matched the 2013-14 selections for the fewest number of juniors chosen.  There will be a bit of a changing of the guard next year with so many of the conference's best players departing, and few juniors already at that upper level of play.

[kiko]

C'mon, Mark. I had posted an hour and a half earlier in my CCIW Chat game recap that Robinson had seven rebounds.

Did none of the coaches happen to notice my post the other day that there are only four players in all of D3 who are averaging 20 and 10 for the season, and that Robinson was one of them?

Maybe you could try a bigger font... 

[kiko]

A step back?  To where?  To the intramural A league(which is extremely competitive at Wheaton btw)??  They were 1-13/5-20!

Relegated to the MWC, while Carroll is apparently in line for the promotion.

(And as much as this may be hyperbole, it does match how pretty much most folks on this board view the pecking order of these two leagues...)

[iwumichigander]

Wow! all by the HOFER All American maybe a new record?  Ypsi or Erickson can you guys get Q or somebody to look it up for me and the other CCIW (College Conference of Illinois Wesleyan) Board  ) posters?!

So after getting chastised this weekend (very politly I might add) --- for not making enough trips to Bloomington ----
to ride the fan bus!
by one of my favorite (more senior than I) fans and since my new meds are giving me insomnia ----

1) See paragraph #1 above
2) Given the sheer volume differential, Ypsi award not at risk.  But, Mark has earned a "participation trophy"
3) Amen
4) We did not see it but "your mikes still on"
5) Agree - NBA referee school teaches you to turn your hearing aids off, lip read all the words you can not say on TV and how clearly signal a "T" while facing the camera
6) A long time ago the coaches, mostly before this group, decided how the selections and awards would be done and it has been passed on as new coaches come on board. It works and gets you to your favorite beverage a little faster.
7) "mediocre fifth-place team"
Hum, oh my, on behalf of every poster on this board, other than Sager, we are sure glad Sager wrote this and not us!  BUT, we will bookmark this page, commit it to memory and from time to time, remind someone, maybe even via a quote  who wrote those words!
8) I do think you cleaned the bones.

[iwu70]

Thanks, Greg, as John Wesley would say, "on toward perfection."  I always accept back-handed compliments.

You guys are so fixated on men's basketball that I have to throw in a bit of extraneous material now and then, just to get a rise out of Q. We all know that many on this board have a rather low annoyance tolerance.   Usually, Ypsi plays the role of extraneous contributions, but as we are from the same intrepid class at IWU, perhaps we both share the same maladies. 

I find the "we always do it that way" of the Coaches on this All-CCIW team to be regrettable, reprehensible, esp. as it relates to Juwan Henry and Mssr. Robinson.  Let's see if the women's coaches do a better job on Friday on their All-CCIW team selections (now I hope that wasn't too extraneous for you fine gentlemen).

Yes, EC and AC will be very different rosters next year.  NPU pre-season CCIW #1?

IWU'70

[izzy stradlin]

Yes, EC and AC will be very different rosters next year.  NPU pre-season CCIW #1?

IWU'70

North central college

[iwu70]

Izzy, NCC well could be. 

'70

[lmitzel]

A lot of next year's polling probably all depends on what happens over the next week or two. I feel like NCC will probably be the preseason favorite since they're losing the least out of the three headed monster at the top from this year, but North Park is going to be up there too just based on the fact that Henry/Robinson are freaks of nature (and I'll have to agree on being a little surprised that Henry wasn't unanimous 1st team since he's definitely the best offensive player in the conference, and arguably the best all around). After that, I'm just not sure since it's hard to say what kind of depth lurks on Augie/Elmhurst after all the seniors leave.

[GoPerry]

Berg shot 40% from the field during the conference season.  That's a super low number for a PF/C and probably what did him in.   Nonetheless Berg and Berntsen were clearly Wheaton's top two players all year by a wide margin and they both graduate.   Wheaton likely takes another step back next year.   Anyone know how things are at ZRG?

A step back?  To where?  To the intramural A league(which is extremely competitive at Wheaton btw)??  They were 1-13/5-20! Even so, I think they will be better next year. 

Well it depends if Zach Lindquist and Luke Thorson are on the same IM team?  Seriously though I think you're engaging in some wishful thinking.  Wasn't it you who said Wheaton would make some noise this year and compete for fourth?

I said it at the end of last year and I'll say it again.  The cupboard is bare at Wheaton. Owen Handy and for a short time Nate Frank were a big part of Mike Schauer's early recruiting (well really, his first and only solid class in Peters, Kvam, Haynes, DeMoss).  With Owen and Nate long gone (Owen has had two great recent recruiting classed at Anderson), as Greg Sager outlined a few weeks ago, Wheaton/Schauer hasn't been landing quality recruits. It's not even that Wheaton has young talent-- non of the freshman had particularly strong showings with plenty of opportunity.  I'm thinking of previous good freshman campaigns at Wheaton (Rob Hamann, Luke Moo, Kevin Blomstrom, Joel Kolmodin, Kent Raymond, Tim McCrary, Tyler Peters) and it isn't on the roster right now. 

There has been some lingering in the Wheaton basketball program of the idea that they have more to overcome in recruiting than IWU, Augie NCC etc in that they can't have that kind of depth.  I don't buy this as Wheaton as much to sell and as many buyers as any school in the conference. Look at football, soccer (gulp), swimming, women's bball, etc.  I am not delusional enough to think they should win the conference every other year or even ever win a national hoops title, but at worst they should be close to .500.  11-14, 5-20 and likely something similar next year is simply unacceptable.   

Don't disagree with any of that - especially the Nate and Owen shout-out.

True indeed, I was expecting much more from this team - never expected them to finish 1-13.  I don't remember saying that they might compete for fourth, but I'll take your word for it that I did- (you don't have to re-post it).  Clearly, they had the talent to do much better than 5 wins.  Came close to beating Augie twice, took Hope to OT in Holland(definitely should've won that one)  and looked decent in Nov/Dec.  Even in their losses they were pretty competitive.  Now, what does that get you?  Answer: nothing this year.  I probably did not appreciate their lack of experience overall to finish out games.  But it's enough for me to say that yes, I think they will be better next season.  Further explained, I'm not saying they will be among the top teams or compete for #1-#4. Taking for granted another tough non-con schedule, a .500 season might be the best one can hope for.  But I don't expect them to finish dead last again.  Berg and Berntsen were solid players, but I don't see them as talent so difficult to replace like the players you mentioned above.

By the way, I believe Mike Schauer used the 2nd half of the season to experiment a little to see what he has for next year.  He got pretty creative in his rotation with Christian Simpson, Mike Winowiecki, Kobe Eichelberger, and a few others seeing true game minutes- not just at slop time.

[badgerwarhawk]

Thanks, Greg, as John Wesley would say, "on toward perfection."  I always accept back-handed compliments.

You guys are so fixated on men's basketball that I have to throw in a bit of extraneous material now and then, just to get a rise out of Q. We all know that many on this board have a rather low annoyance tolerance.   Usually, Ypsi plays the role of extraneous contributions, but as we are from the same intrepid class at IWU, perhaps we both share the same maladies. 

I find the "we always do it that way" of the Coaches on this All-CCIW team to be regrettable, reprehensible, esp. as it relates to Juwan Henry and Mssr. Robinson.  Let's see if the women's coaches do a better job on Friday on their All-CCIW team selections (now I hope that wasn't too extraneous for you fine gentlemen).

Yes, EC and AC will be very different rosters next year.  NPU pre-season CCIW #1?

IWU'70

I don't make it here as often as you do 70 but I've noticed this too.  And I've thought it odd that it would be happening on a men's basketball forum.  Obsessions are one thing but this has gone way beyond any reason.  It doesn't seem to be getting any better either. 

Sorry to have jinxed the Vikings, Greg. 

[havej]

Interesting thoughts and angles from all of the posters regarding All Conference and MOP - as I don't follow D3 as much now as I used to, I thought I'd take a few minutes to research the three D1 conferences I follow heavily: Big East (10 teams), Big 12 (10 teams) , and Big 10 (14 teams)

Last year no player was first team all conference from a team finishing in the bottom 1/2 in the standings

However in the Big East and Big 12 the POY or Co POY did not play on the team finishing in first place (Kris Dunn in the BE and Buddy Hield in the Big 12)

This year Kris Dunn (BE), Buddy Hield (B 12) and Denzel Valentine (B 10) could very likely be conference POYs and their respective squads will not win the league

So as it relates to the CCIW - as these data points illustrate, pretty tough to get the two studs from NPU on 1st team but there's probably no way Henry shouldn't be at a minimum CO POY

[Titan Q]

Big congratulations to Trevor Seibring on his 2nd Team All-CCIW selection.  I have heard Ron Rose talk about Trevor a lot of times and he always mentions how incredibly hard he works to get better, and how much he focuses on the pure fundamentals of low post play.  It's been nice to see a kid who has worked so hard have a great year and get rewarded with an all-conference honor.

[lmitzel]

By the way, I believe Mike Schauer used the 2nd half of the season to experiment a little to see what he has for next year.  He got pretty creative in his rotation with Christian Simpson, Mike Winowiecki, Kobe Eichelberger, and a few others seeing true game minutes- not just at slop time.

That actually would explain a lot. When I was prepping for the Wheaton game at North Central (I do PA for both the NCC men and the women), Mike Winowiecki's name was the only one that I wasn't sure of. I asked one of the assistant coaches before the game and he helped me out, but he'd also mentioned that he probably wasn't going to see a lot of action. Go figure he ended up with 16 points, including four three's that night.