MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Final public regional rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2016/02/24/third-ncaa-regional-ranking/

[Rafi]

Final public regional rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2016/02/24/third-ncaa-regional-ranking/

It looks like to me that Aurora is close to moving ahead of Chicago, but if I'm remembering correctly from last week that Aurora lost a win vs. RRO and Chicago gained one.

And, it looks to me that NCC has to be close to moving past St. Norbert.  I'm wondering if there are any scenarios where that would happen.....is it possible for NCC to overtake St. Norbert if both win out?

Dave, or anyone else, what are your thoughts?

[Gregory Sager]

Well, we'll never starve him out if people respond to him, which is the whole point.

Please, the next time that you think you have a "fun comeback" for one of his stupid one-liners ... think twice about hitting "POST", and then just send it to me as a PM. I promise to laugh, I swear.

I figure if we can't make him go away, occasionally have fun with him.

Sorry, Chuck, but I think that you're figuring wrong on this one. Your encouragement of him can only be detrimental to CCIW Chat.

Besides, did it ever occur to you that he might be tame-able?

He's not. This is who he is.

(While I'm not coming up with any names, I think we may have posters today who once had a reputation almost like AR who have been 'civilized'.

Name one, please.

Heck, I'm not sure that a dozen years ago I wasn't regarded as much above AR.  With some recent commentary, I still may not be.

Chuck, you were never like him. Yes, you were kind of an overzealous and silly eager beaver for the first few years that you posted here, especially with the oddsmaking stuff, but your interest in the league (and in your alma mater's basketball program) was never anything less than genuine, and you actually wanted to talk basketball. For all of the times that you made Bob or Pat or I do a face-palm, I don't think that any of us considered you to be like the troll in terms of your posting behavior. The troll posts only to irritate others and to be disruptive, while you've never done that. Nobody has ever questioned your sincerity ... only (occasionally) your sanity.

I see posts of his on other boards that make me think he may yet 'grow up'.)

I don't see it that way at all. He does take more of a personal interest in the MWC and WIAC boards, where he has a team in each of those leagues that he follows, so his act is different on those boards than it is in here. But I wouldn't call his mostly-boorish participation on the MWC and WIAC boards evidence that "he may yet 'grow up'."

[Gregory Sager]

Final public regional rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2016/02/24/third-ncaa-regional-ranking/

It looks like to me that Aurora is close to moving ahead of Chicago, but if I'm remembering correctly from last week that Aurora lost a win vs. RRO and Chicago gained one.

And, it looks to me that NCC has to be close to moving past St. Norbert.  I'm wondering if there are any scenarios where that would happen.....is it possible for NCC to overtake St. Norbert if both win out?

Dave, or anyone else, what are your thoughts?

This is a very good question, but this particular board might not be the best place to elicit an answer. If I were you, I'd ask it on the Pool C board, under the Multi-Regional Topics header. That's where the number-cruncher and trend-spotter posters who sift through the criteria-relevant data every year do their thing.

[Gregory Sager]

Your guess as to the identity of the culprit is actually a fact. Book it. And your analysis of the reason why is also right on. Bosko was, and obviously continues to be, PO'ed at what he considers Henry's exhibition of disrespect. He had a chance to "punish" the offender who wronged him, his team, and his school, and he used it.
As all of us here seem to agree Juwan Henry deserved to be a unanimous 1st team selection. i, for one, am surprised that Greg would want to protect the offending party in this situation especially considering that the student-athlete who was wronged plays for his beloved Vikings. I was thinking you need not be a trained investigator to solve this particular case. Then I saw your post which confirmed it. Taking nothing away from your crime solving ability, i bet you figured it out pretty easily. 

Well, you and I look at the world very differently, Mark. That's the reason why you're surprised that I was trying to protect Bosko.

Bosko and I have been friends for many, many years. I very strongly believe that he made a mistake by snubbing Juwan. Bosko told Tom Slyder after the CC @ NPU game that he would do this, and, while I had hoped that he would change his mind and do the right thing after cooling off and thinking about it (especially since the game took place three and a half weeks before the All-CCIW selection process), he ended up following through on his vow.

I think that he was wrong to let his personal animosity interfere with his responsibility to pick the five best players in the league for the All-CCIW first team, and my thinking that is in no way at all related to the fact that Juwan Henry plays for NPU. It's a matter of principle, not partisanship. If he had snubbed Kyle Wuest or Ben Ryan or Hunter Hill or Alex Sorenson because he held a grudge against one of them, I'd feel the same way (although I'd be less likely to find out about it in the case of Wuest or Ryan or Hill).

Having said that, Bosko is still my friend, and I still have great respect for him. There have been plenty of times in my life when I've been disappointed by a friend. There's been plenty of times as well when I have, in turn, disappointed one of my friends. Such is life. It does not mean that I should therefore abandon my friend by throwing him to the wolves. That's not how I operate. Loyalty means something to me. I did not want to identify Bosko as the culprit on this board, because: a) I didn't think it was necessary for people to know the identity of the coach who didn't vote for Juwan; and b) being somebody's friend means that you try to avoid publicly embarrassing them. The cat's out of the bag now, so it's too late to avoid mentioning him. But I will not sell out Bosko just because I believe that he made a mistake.

[AndOne]

Greg,

I sincerely hope that the 7th sentence in the last paragraph of your above post is not meant to be an implication that loyalty means nothing to me.
As far as an attempt to shield Bosko, I think you should have given some of your fellow posters a little more credit. One need not have the detailed historical knowledge of CCIW basketball that you do to know who the culprit in this case is. Mark and I both figured it out, and I bet we weren't the only ones who were able to solve the puzzle.
Having opened the door as to the identity of the offending party, you should not be surprised that said action sparked interest, investigation, and identity. If you did not want to invite those possibilities, perhaps it would have been better to just say you were disappointed in whoever failed to cast a vote for Juwan Henry for 1st team election, and that you felt doing so was both irresponsible and a mistake. I don't believe anyone would have disagreed with you.

[Titan Q]

I think that Augie will be better than people are likely to think they'll be. As I've said before, Chrishawn Orange is a star in the making, and Dylan Sortillo will be a very good CCIW player in 2016-17. Michael Hoekstra and Jacob Johnston saw a lot of the court this year, and I think that they'll step up and capably play more prominent roles next season.

As good as Orange is, there is a chance Augie's most talented freshman is 6-4 G/F Pierson Wofford.

[Gregory Sager]

Greg,

I sincerely hope that the 7th sentence in the last paragraph of your above post is not meant to be an implication that loyalty means nothing to me.

I wasn't speaking about you. I was speaking about me.

As far as an attempt to shield Bosko, I think you should have given some of your fellow posters a little more credit. One need not have the detailed historical knowledge of CCIW basketball that you do to know who the culprit in this case is. Mark and I both figured it out, and I bet we weren't the only ones who were able to solve the puzzle.

True, but also irrelevant. Whether others are able to deduce the facts or not should have no bearing whatsoever upon my actions.

Having opened the door as to the identity of the offending party, you should not be surprised that said action sparked interest, investigation, and identity. If you did not want to invite those possibilities, perhaps it would have been better to just say you were disappointed in whoever failed to cast a vote for Juwan Henry for 1st team election, and that you felt doing so was both irresponsible and a mistake. I don't believe anyone would have disagreed with you.

I strongly doubt that my knowing the identity of the offending party had anything to do with anyone else's interest in the matter.

[Gregory Sager]

I think that Augie will be better than people are likely to think they'll be. As I've said before, Chrishawn Orange is a star in the making, and Dylan Sortillo will be a very good CCIW player in 2016-17. Michael Hoekstra and Jacob Johnston saw a lot of the court this year, and I think that they'll step up and capably play more prominent roles next season.

As good as Orange is, there is a chance Augie's most talented freshman is 6-4 G/F Pierson Wofford.

Wofford did come on very nicely at the end of the regular season, and I think that he's got a really bright future at Augie. But I still think that Orange is gonna be the bell cow for Augie for the next three seasons.

[AndOne]

I think that Augie will be better than people are likely to think they'll be. As I've said before, Chrishawn Orange is a star in the making, and Dylan Sortillo will be a very good CCIW player in 2016-17. Michael Hoekstra and Jacob Johnston saw a lot of the court this year, and I think that they'll step up and capably play more prominent roles next season.

As good as Orange is, there is a chance Augie's most talented freshman is 6-4 G/F Pierson Wofford.

Wofford did come on very nicely at the end of the regular season, and I think that he's got a really bright future at Augie. But I still think that Orange is gonna be the bell cow for Augie for the next three seasons.

I think this question can be related to an investment scenario. Do you want quick income and the volatility that might accompany it, or steady growth with its less immediate rewards. Orange will be Mr. Quick Profit. One game he will score big, and the next he might well crash and burn. A 20 one night and 2 the next. Wofford will be Mr. Steady, and less likely to post such variances from game to game. More likely that his results will be 8-12 on a steady basis. Two good players whose styles vary widely but who both produce about the same level of desired results. 

[markerickson]

The accolade is most outstanding player, not most valuable.  Clearly, Mr. Henry was the most outstanding player in the league.  How many times did a player score more than 30 points in a CCIW contest?  35?  40?  45?  Games with more than 20?  To theorize that Bosko withheld his vote because Henry tried to score 50 (!) astounds me.  If you had more games when you scored more than 20 points than any other league player (besides your teammate....don't know those numbers offhand) and you were approaching 50 in a game, then you are clearly the most OUTSTANDING player.  Keep in mind that Henry had a very good APG stat.  He also rebounded.  The concept of "valuable" comes into play when you consider your team's overall performance, IMHO.

[Gregory Sager]

The accolade is most outstanding player, not most valuable.  Clearly, Mr. Henry was the most outstanding player in the league.  How many times did a player score more than 30 points in a CCIW contest?  35?  40?  45?  Games with more than 20?  To theorize that Bosko withheld his vote because Henry tried to score 50 (!) astounds me.  If you had more games when you scored more than 20 points than any other league player (besides your teammate....don't know those numbers offhand) and you were approaching 50 in a game, then you are clearly the most OUTSTANDING player.  Keep in mind that Henry had a very good APG stat.  He also rebounded.  The concept of "valuable" comes into play when you consider your team's overall performance, IMHO.

Well, you'll certainly get no argument from me on any of this, of course. But I need to point out to you that Bosko's withholding of his vote for Juwan for first team is not a theory. It's a fact. Also, Bosko's snub really had less to do with why Juwan attempted that final shot (in order to reach 50 points for the game) than it did with when he attempted it (in the final seconds of an already-decided game, in which Carthage had ceased to defend).

[Gotberg]

The accolade is most outstanding player, not most valuable.  Clearly, Mr. Henry was the most outstanding player in the league.  How many times did a player score more than 30 points in a CCIW contest?  35?  40?  45?  Games with more than 20?  To theorize that Bosko withheld his vote because Henry tried to score 50 (!) astounds me.  If you had more games when you scored more than 20 points than any other league player (besides your teammate....don't know those numbers offhand) and you were approaching 50 in a game, then you are clearly the most OUTSTANDING player.  Keep in mind that Henry had a very good APG stat.  He also rebounded.  The concept of "valuable" comes into play when you consider your team's overall performance, IMHO.

Well, you'll certainly get no argument from me on any of this, of course. But I need to point out to you that Bosko's withholding of his vote for Juwan for first team is not a theory. It's a fact. Also, Bosko's snub really had less to do with why Juwan attempted that final shot (in order to reach 50 points for the game) than it did with when he attempted it (in the final seconds of an already-decided game, in which Carthage had ceased to defend).

This is Bosko we're talking about, why is anyone surprised?

[AndOne]

Markerickson is clearly correct in that Juwan Henry was truly the MOP. However, under CCIW law, the MOP must be a unanimous first team selection. When Bosko used his last first team ballot to vote for someone other than Henry, he not only deprived him of unanimous 1st team election, but also of any chance to be named MOP.

[markerickson]

I am not going to parse words, Greg.  Juwan may have also finished second in steals in the conference behind fellow Viking, TJ Cobbs.  More fuel to the fire.