MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[GoPerry]

Markerickson is clearly correct in that Juwan Henry was truly the MOP. However, under CCIW law, the MOP must be a unanimous first team selection. When Bosko used his last first team ballot to vote for someone other than Henry, he not only deprived him of unanimous 1st team election, but also of any chance to be named MOP.

The guidelines don't say anything about that.  Or are you saying that is a handshake agreement among the coaches?

IV.   ALL CONFERENCE

A.   A first team of five players, a second team of five players and a third team of five players shall make up the all-conference team. An outstanding player shall be selected from the first team. This award is named the Fred Young CCIW Most Outstanding Player Award. A conference freshman of the year will also be selected. 


D.   The player of the year nominations will be gathered at the conclusion of the all-conference voting and then voted upon by the group with the winner determined by a simple majority.


No mention of having to be unanimous 1st teamer.  So Henry still could've been the MOP, but the majority voted for Hill.

[AndOne]

The accolade is most outstanding player, not most valuable.  Clearly, Mr. Henry was the most outstanding player in the league.  How many times did a player score more than 30 points in a CCIW contest?  35?  40?  45?  Games with more than 20?  To theorize that Bosko withheld his vote because Henry tried to score 50 (!) astounds me.  If you had more games when you scored more than 20 points than any other league player (besides your teammate....don't know those numbers offhand) and you were approaching 50 in a game, then you are clearly the most OUTSTANDING player.  Keep in mind that Henry had a very good APG stat.  He also rebounded.  The concept of "valuable" comes into play when you consider your team's overall performance, IMHO.

Well, you'll certainly get no argument from me on any of this, of course. But I need to point out to you that Bosko's withholding of his vote for Juwan for first team is not a theory. It's a fact. Also, Bosko's snub really had less to do with why Juwan attempted that final shot (in order to reach 50 points for the game) than it did with when he attempted it (in the final seconds of an already-decided game, in which Carthage had ceased to defend).

Hold on. So you're saying Bosko did not care that Henry TOOK the shot. But he did care WHEN the shot was taken.
If so, its hard to comprehend Bosko's thinking when you consider that you can't score 50 until you have at least 47. 
As such, it seems logical that if Bosko really didn't care THAT the shot was taken, its also true that he really didn't care WHEN it was taken!
Accordingly, it appears Bosko really doesn't know why he didn't vote for Henry for 1st team.   

[AndOne]

Markerickson is clearly correct in that Juwan Henry was truly the MOP. However, under CCIW law, the MOP must be a unanimous first team selection. When Bosko used his last first team ballot to vote for someone other than Henry, he not only deprived him of unanimous 1st team election, but also of any chance to be named MOP.

The guidelines don't say anything about that.  Or are you saying that is a handshake agreement among the coaches?

IV.   ALL CONFERENCE

A.   A first team of five players, a second team of five players and a third team of five players shall make up the all-conference team. An outstanding player shall be selected from the first team. This award is named the Fred Young CCIW Most Outstanding Player Award. A conference freshman of the year will also be selected. 


D.   The player of the year nominations will be gathered at the conclusion of the all-conference voting and then voted upon by the group with the winner determined by a simple majority.


No mention of having to be unanimous 1st teamer.  So Henry still could've been the MOP, but the majority voted for Hill.

GO-

I know you've heard of unwritten rules or laws. For instance, that all conference selections are largely tied to where a team finishes in the conference standings. No such guideline, but you know thats how it goes.

So, despite what the guidelines say (or DON'T say).....................

If you want proof something that might not be written down anywhere certainly applies, all you have to do is check the All-Conference Team lists going as far back as 2000-2001. The MOP has been a unanimous 1st team selection in every year but 2013-2014 when there was no unanimous 1st teamer. 

I guess you can call the situation whatever you want to. But that IS how it works. Henry didn't have any more chance of being MOP than you or I if he wasn't a unanimous first teamer.

[kiko]

As a non-insider/non-NPU follower of the conference, my take on this really is two rhetorical questions:

Do I expect 18-22 year old kids to do things that are stupid/misguided/choose-your-adjective?  Yes, but I hope they learn from them as part of the growing process.

Do I expect coaches or other adults in positions of authority to demonstrate their own maturity and rise above a tit-for-tat in a situation like this?  Yes, I do.

[veterancciwfan]

Greg: I've seen Juwan play 4 games in two years and saw Mike Barach play 5 games in two years (all 9 of course against IWU) and if I had to pick a team I would take Mike Barach in a heartbeat over Henry. Yes Henry is unguardable and his quickness makes him a good defender and decent rebounder. But he seemed disinterested and passive in the first 30 minutes of the Shirk contest, the biggest game NPU had played in what, 15 years? He scored most of his points after IWU had a 21 point lead. Maybe he was ill, had a headache, didn't sleep well the night before. Henry is a great talent, no doubt. But he wasn't great on Feb. 13.

Regarding the departed Ken Falkner: I won't miss him. Over the years, I think he and Dave Lanning were equally inferior.

Regarding that magical 2005/06 season, Scott Trost's final year at IWU. In terms of overall talent and number of good-great teams (and I rate a great team 5 and and good team 4), that season was probably the best that I can remember. NCC, Augie, IWU and Elmhurst were all between good to great that year. Another example of how tough the CCIW is. After the first 11 nonconf games, a lot of seasoned IWU fans thought that Titan team was the best (with the exception of the 76/77 IWU team when Sikma was a senior) they had ever seen. Then came the rude awakening of the CCIW in which IWU finished 10-6 (including conf tournament) and had to beat Augie at home in the 1st game of the tournament in order to lock in a Pool C bid.

Voxelmhurst: That EC/IWU Shirk game in 2006 was undoubtedly one of the best ever games at Shirk, which opened in the 94/95 season. That was a game IWU had to win to have a chance to get a Pool C bid. Ditto for Elmhurst. The Jays tried to foul Adam Dauksas but he was too slippery and launched the game-tying 3 just beyond mid-court that was NBN. Checked the attendance: 3,000. Wonder what the crowd will be Friday in Rock Island, nowhere near 3,000 I'm sure.

Looking at Regional rankings.  TX Lutheran #1 with 6 losses including a neutral court loss to 13-12 IWU. That was the best game IWU has played this season. 38 minutes of very good basketball. TX Lutheran, a team with dynamite quickness, would finish 3, 4 or 5 in CCIW.

[iwu70]

It is pretty sad what Bosko has done.  Henry is a rare talent and should have at least been co-MOP this year.  I have no problem with Hunter Hill or Ben Ryan winning the award, or part of it.

IWU'70

[deepthroat]

If it was a player on any other school than North Park, would Bosko have chosen to make this principled stance?

[Naperick]

If Illinois Wesleyan beats Elmhurst for the CCIW tourney title, could the CCIW get 4 teams in the D3 tourney?
I know it's a crazy thought.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

If Illinois Wesleyan beats Elmhurst for the CCIW tourney title, could the CCIW get 4 teams in the D3 tourney?
I know it's a crazy thought.

No... I think Elmhurst would be in a little bit of trouble. I know they would have gotten to the CCIW title game, but Chicago wins and they and Elmhurst are jockeying to get to the table first with similar resumes. Also considering that would remove a Pool C bid with Augustana taking it... it will leave less options.

[Naperick]

That makes sense.  Augustana is definitely in and North Central is in good shape.  No matter what happens in the NCC-ELM game on Friday, the Cardinals will be ahead of the Bluejays.

[AndOne]

Here is a nice CCIW tourney preview of the NCC/EC game done by the NCC SID.

If you are interested in more detailed NCC info, click on the Complete Game Notes link at the top. One of the more interesting components of the report is the Situational Statistics section on the 3rd page of the Complete Notes section.

http://www.northcentralcardinals.com/news/2016/2/23/MBB_0223164906.aspx

[AndOne]

If it was a player on any other school than North Park, would Bosko have chosen to make this principled stance?

I would say no because Bosko's misguided ire was directed at a certain player for a certain perceived transgression.
Since most people seem to think Bosko was totally wrong in the action he took (or really didn't take in withholding his vote), I doubt many people, other than perhaps Bosko himself, would classify his stance "principled."

[voxelmhurst]

If Illinois Wesleyan beats Elmhurst for the CCIW tourney title, could the CCIW get 4 teams in the D3 tourney?
I know it's a crazy thought.

I don't follow the algorithms, but I think Elmhurst has to win at least one game, and not have Illinois Wesleyan win twice. If Elmhurst loses to North Central, that's 4-5 their last 9, and 2-5 against the rest of the CCIW Top 4. Not a good look for any team.

[WUPHF]

No... I think Elmhurst would be in a little bit of trouble. I know they would have gotten to the CCIW title game, but Chicago wins and they and Elmhurst are jockeying to get to the table first with similar resumes. Also considering that would remove a Pool C bid with Augustana taking it... it will leave less options.

Chicago loses...you heard it here first.

[AndOne]

Gentlemen,

Do you think this is right?

1. Augie is in even if they lose to IWU. (Duh)
2. IWU is in only if they win 2 and get the AQ. (Duh, again)
3. NCC is probably in already.
4. Even if they lose to Augie, NCC is in for sure if they beat EC.
5. EC is probably out if they lose to NCC.
6. EC is probably in if they beat NCC but lose to AC.