MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

I definitely would vote for "50 Shades of" Grey Giovanine over Todd "Medium" Rari "Or Well"don as COY.

But, you don't have a vote, USee. Don't feel bad though------neither does anybody else! And therein lies the problem. 

And if you did have a vote is there any other reason it would go to The Stomper other than because his team finished in first place? Just curious.

[AndOne]

to the victor goes the spoils

DING DING!!

It takes more effort to climb the mountain than it does to be airlifted to the summit.
DING DONG!!

[Gregory Sager]

Lastly, while I think Raridon, for the reasons I delineated above, was at least as deserving as Giovanine, the primary point/focus of my argument was that I just feel the basketball COY should be determined in the same manner that all or most of the other CsOY are--by a vote. That's all.

I agree on this statement, as well.  How it's done in basketball eliminates the possibility of what happened in 2013 in football, where Mike Conway was clearly deserving of the award even though NPU wasn't the conference champ or co-champ.  Ypsi makes a great point that when it's an automatic award, it's not really an award at all, it's just part of the conference championship recognition.  I think it would be more meaningful if it was an annual vote for the COY, but we would still have debates from time to time about who is more deserving of the award.  That being said, it would be good subject matter for  discussions on this board.

Exactly. And you'd think that the coaches would be considerate enough to hand us more fodder for public debate.

I'm gonna agree with AO on this one.  Giovanine was deserving of the award, but I think Raridon was MORE deserving.  Women's basketball seems to be slipping into the same automatic recognition: co-champs Wheaton and IWU yielded co-COY's Madson and Smith.  To me, automatic awards are not even awards - they're just adjuncts to the team trophy.  IMO, Giovanine and Raridon should have at least been co-COYs (and probably a nod to Raridon); and I have nothing against Madson, but think Mia Smith deserved the solo COY: she took a VERY young team picked to finish fifth and tied for the conference title.  I would contend that arguably this was a more impressive coaching job than when she won the national title.

You've left out the fact that Kent Madsen lost arguably his best player (Ellie Zeller) early this season to a knee injury, but I'm certainly not here to argue about a different sport's COY. The larger issue is that you're missing the point here, Chuck. The CCIW women's basketball coaches may have handed the award to the coach(es) whose teams have won the league for the past five seasons, but the salient fact is that they are actually voting on this award, and that they have handed it to non-champion coaches as recently as when Madsen won it in 2011. By contrast, I'm not sure that the men's basketball coaches even fill out ballots for COY. If they do, they're, as I said yesterday, pro forma and absolutely useless.

Just because the coaches of the champs have won it for five years running in women's basketball doesn't mean that it's a trend set in stone, or that the women's coaches have abdicated their control over the COY award and have taken to automatically awarding it to the coach of the champ. Again, men's basketball is completely unique in the CCIW in terms of how the COY has been handed, which is Mark's main point here.

And if you did have a vote is there any other reason it would go to The Stomper other than because his team finished in first place? Just curious.

I think that if the award was actually voted upon by the coaches rather than it being an automatic process, Giovanine's chances to win it in any given year (not just this year) would become more tenuous, regardless of merit. That's for the simple reason that several, if not all, of his peers are not very fond of him.

[AndOne]

And if you did have a vote is there any other reason it would go to The Stomper other than because his team finished in first place? Just curious.

I think that if the award was actually voted upon by the coaches rather than it being an automatic process, Giovanine's chances to win it in any given year (not just this year) would become more tenuous, regardless of merit. That's for the simple reason that several, if not all, of his peers are not very fond of him.

Imagine that! 

[veterancciwfan]

From my perspective of IWU b'ball, my opinion is what Giovanine did this season was fabulous. And don't denigrate him for having 6 valuable seniors which he successfully recruited. A great example is Ben Ryan who had to choose between IWU and Augie. Great coaches are great because first and foremost they recruit the best players. As Bridges repeatedly said, I want to step off the bus with the best players. And that's what Grey did this season. It doesn't hurt when he has a blue ribbon long-time assistant, Tom Jessse, helping him greatly in recruiting and coaching. One of the hardest things for a coach or manager to accomplish is to meet expectations. And having finished 2nd in D3 and returning 90% of last year's talented team, I know that every school on Augie's schedule aimed at that invisible target on their uniforms. And only one team beat them in OT by 2. Another thing to admire about Augustana this year: The Vikings won every close game except one. That is the mark of a great team. Example: The IWU game in the conf. tournament.  My guess is Augie will be national champs and if so, Grey deserves a bigger prize than CCIW COY.

Larry: Hero Sports correctly identified IWU as a D3, not a D2, school.

Mark: It's hard to contemplate how Raridon should be COY when NCC was embarrassed at Rock Island and lost at home to Augustana. Also, and I know post season results aren't considered, but NCC finishing the season with two losses isn't exactly how a COY team is supposed to finish.

[USee]

I definitely would vote for "50 Shades of" Grey Giovanine over Todd "Medium" Rari "Or Well"don as COY.

But, you don't have a vote, USee. Don't feel bad though------neither does anybody else! And therein lies the problem. 

And if you did have a vote is there any other reason it would go to The Stomper other than because his team finished in first place? Just curious.

I am not a fan of GG that's for sure. I am not a huge Raridon fan either. None of that matters to me. If you look at football, Bob Reade won the CCIW championship every year from 1981-1988. He won 4 national Championships during the middle of that run (Augie6 played on some of those teams). Reade's Vikings were the favorite every year for the CCIW title. He won COY every year except in 1981, when North Central's Lloyd Krumlauf inexplicably won and in 1988 when Merle Mashonholder from Carroll won it. That's because Carroll broke the Augie streak of wins and delivered their first conference loss in almost 10 years. Reade also shared COY with Carl Poelker in 1984 when Millikin made it to the national playoffs as a 2nd CCIW team by going 7-1 and taking Augie to the wire.

So in my mind, if Raridon had beaten Augie even once, I would have given him consideration. He didn't . Winning means something. GG put up a dominant year in the nation's toughest conference. Raridon did a fine job, but he didn't get a victory over the prohibitive favorite, so no he doesn't get my vote (Which I agree doesn't matter).

[cardinalpride]

All of you make good points! If there had been a vote Grey would've won anyhow.  GG and the augie Vikings won 14 consecutive CCIW games. Why is there a debate? Please close this case. Lol

[kiko]

AO asked if there is any reason other than finishing first for Grey to win COY.  In my mind, there are two:

- As Vet alluded to, that team didn't magically appear on its own.  He recruited it, built it, and put it in position to be a very dominant force this year.

- The latter of these relates to reason #2 -- Augustana came within a two-point overtime loss on the road of becoming the first undefeated team in the conference in 40+ years.  I don't know if anyone has come closer to this holy grail in that window -- perhaps Ypsi will look it up for me  -- but between this and the way they dismantled eventual runner-up and then-unbeaten North Central in the teams' first meeting, they were as dominant of a team from stem to stern in conference play as I can remember.  That was not a given -- he deserves credit for that.

[izzy stradlin]

Coaching success in college sports is 80-90% recruiting.  Have Mike Schauer and Bosko all of the sudden forgot their X's and their O's?  I don't think so.  Something as silly as a preseason coaches poll should in no way have influence in figuring out who should be recognized as the best coach. 

Grey G is clearly COY.   He recruited the best team and got them to perform better than anyone on the court. 

Actually I think it's an odd award and agree with the way the coaches are handling it.  Obviously the coach of the champs is the COY.  It's cut and dried and eliminates bias.     

[mwunder]

to the victor goes the spoils

DING DING!!

It takes more effort to climb the mountain than it does to be airlifted to the summit.
DING DONG!!

That's just it though....NCC didn't reach the summit.

[cardinalpride]

AO asked if there is any reason other than finishing first for Grey to win COY.  In my mind, there are two:

- As Vet alluded to, that team didn't magically appear on its own.  He recruited it, built it, and put it in position to be a very dominant force this year.

- The latter of these relates to reason #2 -- Augustana came within a two-point overtime loss on the road of becoming the first undefeated team in the conference in 40+ years.  I don't know if anyone has come closer to this holy grail in that window -- perhaps Ypsi will look it up for me  -- but between this and the way they dismantled eventual runner-up and then-unbeaten North Central in the teams' first meeting, they were as dominant of a team from stem to stern in conference play as I can remember.  That was not a given -- he deserves credit for that.

Kiko,
IWU came pretty close in 2013. They were 13-0 before coming to Merner field house. It took overtime before NCC stopped their dreams of a perfect CCIW regular season. Final 87-83. NCC would go on to win the conf tourney at IWU and defeat them once again in the sweet sixteen of the national tourney!
Again, that was pretty close as well. Nevertheless, if any coach wins 14 consecutive games in this league he or she has my vote for coy. No if, ands, or buts!
I know the voting is done pre conf tourney and technically it's 12 consecutive games. However, no one else in the league accomplished such a feat regardless of who was returning.

[John Gleich]

Coaching success in college sports is 80-90% recruiting.  Have Mike Schauer and Bosko all of the sudden forgot their X's and their O's?

It's amazing how much easier Xing and Oing is with the proper (talented) players...!

[veterancciwfan]

What's with Alma's green road uniforms, which by the way, are ugly with the mock collar. Their colors are maroon and white. All of their fans are wearing maroon.

[almcguirejr]

What's with Alma's green road uniforms, which by the way, are ugly with the mock collar. Their colors are maroon and white. All of their fans are wearing maroon.

Green??? They wore gray on my device.

[Augie6]

Augie dominating Emory at half, 51-29.  Augie shooting at a 60% clip while holding Emory to 32%.  Augie much more physical than Emory.