MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

Billy Kirby, a 6'1, 180 rising -junior guard from Mundelein Carmel via Cardinal Stritch, has deposited at North Park.

Last season at Cardinal Stritch he started 18 games for the Wolves, averaging 5.3 ppg in about 20 minutes per game and shooting 39% from downtown.

What in the heck is a "rising" junior guard?    Is he still growing?
Maybe he'll be 6'3" next year. 

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic here or truly don't know but it's actually a pretty common phrasing to use "rising" to indicate the fact that he'll be a junior in the fall, rather than having been a junior this past season. In between seasons, it's not a problem to provide a little clarity.

Pat,

However surprised you might be, I truly am not familiar with the terminology. 
Call me dumb and/or smite me if you must.
I have seen the word used a couple of times in describing a player, but I honestly thought it had something to do with either eligibility or future development potential.

If a player will be a junior next year, it seems like saying "Billy Kirby, a 6'1" guard from Mundelien Carmel via Cardinal Stritch, has deposited at NPU. He will be a junior in the fall," would suffice without being superfluous.

I guess I need to go review my Glossary of Basketball Terminology booklet. 

[Pat Coleman]

Call me dumb and/or smite me if you must.

I didn't actually do either of those things, though, did I?

[Gregory Sager]

Billy Kirby, a 6'1, 180 rising -junior guard from Mundelein Carmel via Cardinal Stritch, has deposited at North Park.

Last season at Cardinal Stritch he started 18 games for the Wolves, averaging 5.3 ppg in about 20 minutes per game and shooting 39% from downtown.

What in the heck is a "rising" junior guard?    Is he still growing?
Maybe he'll be 6'3" next year. 

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic here or truly don't know but it's actually a pretty common phrasing to use "rising" to indicate the fact that he'll be a junior in the fall, rather than having been a junior this past season. In between seasons, it's not a problem to provide a little clarity.

Pat,

However surprised you might be, I truly am not familiar with the terminology. 
Call me dumb and/or smite me if you must.
I have seen the word used a couple of times in describing a player, but I honestly thought it had something to do with either eligibility or future development potential.

If a player will be a junior next year, it seems like saying "Billy Kirby, a 6'1" guard from Mundelien Carmel via Cardinal Stritch, has deposited at NPU. He will be a junior in the fall," would suffice without being superfluous.

No, calling him a rising junior suffices. As Pat said, it's a widely-used and commonly-understood term, Mark, and that's true in college sports as well as within secondary education in general. I'm not calling you dumb, and of course I'm not smiting you, but the fact that you didn't know the term doesn't mean that I should've used an alternative method of identifying Billy Kirby's current status. For one thing, I'm not a mind-reader. For another, you're just one participant on this site.

There's no crime in not knowing the meaning of a word (or a specific meaning among several meanings of a word). I enjoy learning new words, or new meanings of old words ... although I'm not always sure that the people who read my posts enjoy it when I inflict new words upon them. Why not just say, "Well, I didn't know before what the term 'rising' meant when referring to college students, and now I do," and just leave it at that?

[unanimous22]

Well, I didn't know before what the term 'rising' meant when referring to college students, and now I do.

Is it odd for a rising junior to deposit money for college already?

[Gregory Sager]

If I were an NPU guy, I probably wouldn't care about women's T&F either, but at IWU we dominate.

"We"? Which was your event, Chuck? The 400? The high jump? The hurdles?

(Now I see why you were so interested in getting Ralph Turner to be your gynecologist. )

LOL!!

But it is a well-established tradition (for better or worse) that members of a college community (often extended even to supporters who never attended the school) can use 'we' when talking about the sports teams (or other events), even if literally it makes no sense.  I'm sure you are aware that English (and probably every other language) is chock-full of such usages, whether nonsense or not.

Well, Chuck, if you want to declaim on behalf of nonsense, then far be it from me to stand in your way.

(With the Cubbies absolutely running away with the division title, I'll bet even you have slipped into 'we' now and then! )

You'd lose that bet.

Wheaton's recruits including a 2 sport athlete

http://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/2016/6/7/the-thunder-mens-basketball-program-announces-newcomers.aspx

Wheaton was 1-13 in the CCIW last year, lost their 2 best players and 4 rotation seniors. 

Regarding this year's class--"we intentionally pursued a smaller group."   -Mike Schauer.   

I don't want to come across as the Ourhouse of Wheaton College but this statement is a real head scratcher.   I'd think any CCIW coach coming off a 1-13 season would make every effort to bring in as much talent as he can.  You never know exactly how good these kids will be until they get on campus.   I guess now it's clear why the talent level at Wheaton has dropped so much.   Follow up bad seasons with less recruiting. 

Someone tell me I'm wrong.

I had exactly the same reaction, Izzy.  I guess time will tell.  Maybe Coach Schauer has gone for quality over quantity.

Count me in with you two and Mark as being a bit confused by Mike Schauer's "we intentionally recruited a smaller group" statement. I'm a bit at a loss to see how quality precludes quantity as far as recruiting energies are concerned. I realize that Wheaton's recruiting methodology is a bit different, but the basic principle is still the same. You reach out to as many good players as you possibly can, because you know that you're going to lose out on some who will choose other schools.

I'm also not sure that five newbies is an abnormally small haul by Wheaton basketball standards. Here's the number of freshmen that Wheaton's brought in each year in this decade:

2016-17:   4
2015-16:   8
2014-15:   8
2013-14:   4
2012-13:   6
2011-12:   5
2010-11: 10
2009-10:   2

If you add in the juco sophomore transfer to the four freshmen, this year's crop of five Wheaton newbies is only one player smaller than the average for the decade.

Wheaton's double-barreled admissions stringency -- high academics and test scores plus an evangelical Christian profession of faith -- coupled with the high cost of a Wheaton education means that each Wheaton sport tends to bring in significantly fewer new players per year than do their seven (now eight) CCIW counterparts. The Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance makes up for it by getting kids who collectively have a higher buy-in with regard to playing for their school than do the other CCIW programs; Wheaton's attrition rate (both in terms of staying at the school in general and in specifically staying within the program) is typically much lower than those of the other CCIW schools. Wheaton may only bring in two-thirds as many players in a given year as an Augustana or a North Central or a Carthage, but Wheaton loses so few of them along the way that the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance often has larger senior classes in its sports than do its CCIW competitors.

The problem is that even Wheaton isn't immune to attrition. Let's look at that Wheaton freshmen chart again and see how many of them were listed on the Wheaton roster as seniors (or as a part of last season's team):

2016-17:   4
2015-16:   8
2014-15:   8 > 6 sophomores
2013-14:   4 > 1 junior
2012-13:   6 > 4 seniors
2011-12:   5 > 2 seniors
2010-11: 10 > 6 seniors
2009-10:   2 > 2 seniors

Some of that attrition is due to injury (e.g., Luis Miller), but some of it is a bit less of that buy-in I talked about than Wheaton's used to getting from its student-athletes.

Mike said in the press release that "we won't have any seniors on our roster next year," which means that the lone 2015-16 junior, 6'7 center Trevor Leach, has already decided that he won't be on next year's team. (That's not a shock, since he got only ten minutes of playing time in four varsity games last season.)

None of this means that Wheaton's going to have any trouble fielding a team, of course. If all 14 players eligible to return (apart from Leach) do in fact come back to play for WC next year, and you add in the five newbies, then Mike Schauer's going to have 19 players. That's a small roster by CCIW standards, but it's certainly more than enough to run a team. He could probably even field a JV team next season, as long as the team stays injury-free. But how many of those 14 returnees are established, CCIW-quality players? And who knows how good the five newbies will be next season? I think that that's probably what Izzy was getting at: fewer players means fewer possibilities of filling all of Wheaton's holes.

[Gregory Sager]

Well, I didn't know before what the term 'rising' meant when referring to college students, and now I do.

OK, there's at least two of you, then.

Is it odd for a rising junior to deposit money for college already?

Why would it be odd? I guess that I'm not sure that I understand the premise behind your question, particularly since Billy Kirby is transferring in to a new school.

[AndOne]

Well, I thought I knew what "rising" meant, but I never saw/heard it used in a basketball 🏀, or any other sport, context before.
I have seen "will be a junior" used when referencing a recruit, and there is no doubt as to the meaning of that phraseology, just as you would maintain there is no doubt what "rising junior" means in reference to to a recruit's academic/eligibility status. 

As Mr. Sikma's above post would seem to confirm, I would submit I'm not the only one who isn't/wasn't aware of what "rising" means with regard to a college student/recruit. 

However, I can now concur and say Well, I didn't know before what the term 'rising' meant when referring to college students, and now I do.   

[Gregory Sager]

Consider it my contribution to adult edumacation for today, Mark.

[AndOne]

Consider it my contribution to adult edumacation for today, Mark.

I don't need no edumacation!  🎓
I don't need no thought control. 👦
All in all, you're just another brick in the wall. 

[Gregory Sager]

Here's Billy Kirby's highlight tape from last season:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c61ivn54fOQ

As Pete said, he's a nice addition for NPU. He's got some skills. He was listed on the Cardinal Stritch roster last year as a sophomore, but the highlight tape calls him a redshirt freshman. He played in three of CSU's first four games in 2014-15 and then didn't play any more. He suffered a hip injury, so he may have gotten a medical redshirt.

[AndOne]

Holy crapoly. If he received a medical redshirt, he might only be a rising sophomore rather than a rising junior as first reported. 😉

[veterancciwfan]

Greg: Regarding your "not knowing the meaning of a word" comment. You used the Latin (I am assuming) phrase, "Gratias tibi." One question: Joe Maddon uses a 2 Latin word ending to his pregame manager's segment on The Score. Is  Maddon saying "Gratias tibi" to end his pregame interview with Ron Coomer? A curious mind wants to know.

[Gregory Sager]

Holy crapoly. If he received a medical redshirt, he might only be a rising sophomore rather than a rising junior as first reported. 😉

Greg: Regarding your "not knowing the meaning of a word" comment. You used the Latin (I am assuming) phrase, "Gratias tibi." One question: Joe Maddon uses a 2 Latin word ending to his pregame manager's segment on The Score. Is  Maddon saying "Gratias tibi" to end his pregame interview with Ron Coomer? A curious mind wants to know.

Could be. I admit that I've never listened to a pregame interview with Maddon on The Score. (By the time that I tune in, the game's usually already in progress.) Gratias tibi is simply "thank you" in Latin, so it's pretty plausible that that's what he's saying. It's either that or eamus catuli.

[kiko]

Well, I didn't know before what the term 'rising' meant when referring to college students, and now I do.

OK, there's at least two of you, then.

Three. 

Wheaton's attrition rate (both in terms of staying at the school in general and in specifically staying within the program) is typically much lower than those of the other CCIW schools. Wheaton may only bring in two-thirds as many players in a given year as an Augustana or a North Central or a Carthage, but Wheaton loses so few of them along the way that the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance often has larger senior classes in its sports than do its CCIW competitors.

Serious question on this: this makes a lot of sense logically.  Is this also true for football (larger recruiting class, etc.), or for the general student population?  Not trying to Ypsi you; I just don't pay attention to the details over in North DuPage enough to know if this is part of a broader pattern.  It seems plausible that it is.

[izzy stradlin]

Well, I didn't know before what the term 'rising' meant when referring to college students, and now I do.

OK, there's at least two of you, then.

Three. 

Wheaton's attrition rate (both in terms of staying at the school in general and in specifically staying within the program) is typically much lower than those of the other CCIW schools. Wheaton may only bring in two-thirds as many players in a given year as an Augustana or a North Central or a Carthage, but Wheaton loses so few of them along the way that the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance often has larger senior classes in its sports than do its CCIW competitors.

Serious question on this: this makes a lot of sense logically.  Is this also true for football (larger recruiting class, etc.), or for the general student population?  Not trying to Ypsi you; I just don't pay attention to the details over in North DuPage enough to know if this is part of a broader pattern.  It seems plausible that it is.

It's definitely true for the general population (I think you can probably find the numbers on US News or one of those sites).   I think it's because of the dinning hall.   Or because there are lots of kids from overseas missionary families and Wheaton has good indoor plumbing and decent air conditioning?