MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[petemcb]

I went to that scrimmage too and was really impressed with those same two players, as well as Freshman Jordan Baum from Deerfield High School who ran the team as well as any freshman I can recall in the CCIW in a few years.  Not just his shot, but his decision-making, court vision/awareness, and leadership were very impressive.  In the third/JV period, in which he did not play, he was one of the few varsity players to join the timeout huddle and turned back to call the rest of the varsity off the bench and into the huddle as support - and the upperclassmen responded to him immediately.  This kid is talented, poised, and understands both leadership and the point guard position.  He will be a four year factor for the Maroons.

One other observation was that Chicago appeared to be in much better shape than NCC who looked to be in about midsummer condition.  Chicago was impressive.

[badgerwarhawk]

Elmhurst looked pretty decent in the scrimmage last night.  The two teams tied in the first twenty minutes.  Elmhurst led by 3-6 points through most of it but the WARHAWKS rallied to a 4 point lead in the final 3 minutes or so only to surrender it, then turn the ball over on their final possession and end tied, 43-43, when the BlueJays missed a desperation shot at the buzzer.  It was pretty much all Elmhurst in the second stanza.  They hit a pair of three pointers to open the scoring and led by as many as 10 points.  The WARHAWKS relying on a one pass, throw up a shot and forget the pass just shoot offense managed to get within 4 points a couple of times but that was about it.  I think the final was 50-43.

In the first JV period the WARHAWKS led from the get go but the BlueJays kept it close throughout before it ended with the WARHAWKS up by 7 or 8 points.  The second JV half (Elmhurst has a ton of players) was a repeat of the second stanza varsity scrimmage.  The BlueJays jumped to an early lead, held it and eventually pushed it into double figures.  The BlueJays won by 8 or 10.

Several BlueJays played well particularly Chris Parrilli.  We didn't seem to have a very good matchup for him.   

[Gregory Sager]

Do you recall whom John Baines used as his five varsity starters, BW? One of the mysteries surrounding Elmhurst is the identity of the starting five going into the season.

[badgerwarhawk]

Do you recall whom John Baines used as his five varsity starters, BW? One of the mysteries surrounding Elmhurst is the identity of the starting five going into the season.

The ones I can remember were Parrelli (30), Jalen Loving (15), Caleb Mowry (22) and Nathan Rogers (20). 

[AndOne]

Do you recall whom John Baines used as his five varsity starters, BW? One of the mysteries surrounding Elmhurst is the identity of the starting five going into the season.

The ones I can remember were Parrelli (30), Jalen Loving (15), Caleb Mowry (22) and Nathan Rogers (20).

These 4 shouldn't have been too hard to predict at this point. Parrelli (1) is a junior, and Loving (3), who should be EC's best player, Mowry (4), and Rogers (2) are 3 of the only 4 seniors on the 30 man roster for EC who appears to have wrestled the Hoarding Crown away from it's previous owner. While there are no guarantees, I think its a good bet that these 4 will be in the opening game starting lineup. Biggest ? at this point is who mans the middle. Mueller?

Also, I wonder if this will be the year that Michael Plunk finally sees some PT. I seem to remember he arrived in Elmhurst to great fanfare and was hailed as a future Bluejay all-conference player. His view of the floor has largely been blocked by very competent upperclassmen until this season. Will he finally become a member of the regular rotation or be relegated to the bench by any one of EC's plethora of newbies?

[X-Road Coug]

Hopefully, with all the upperclassmen, they can maintain the momentum from last year's group.  All of those guys, although "non-starters" from last year, should be poised, seasoned and ready to lead.  Also, Loving was questionable during the summer with that knee injury, so that is a big plus!  Heard he had a few athletic dunks last night as well. 

[Gregory Sager]

Do you recall whom John Baines used as his five varsity starters, BW? One of the mysteries surrounding Elmhurst is the identity of the starting five going into the season.

The ones I can remember were Parrelli (30), Jalen Loving (15), Caleb Mowry (22) and Nathan Rogers (20). 

Thanks, BW!

These 4 shouldn't have been too hard to predict at this point.

Disagree again. While I would've guessed that Baines would turn to last year's JV players first, that was certainly not written in stone. For one thing, all of the Elmhurst people I've talked to seemed to be over the moon with regard to the quality of the newbies that Baines and his staff have brought in this year. For another, there's no guarantee that a JV player will ever be ready to take it to the next level in terms of being a varsity starter. That's not to say that Mowry or Parrilli are inherently bad -- I thought that they had nice potential -- but neither one was varsity-rotation-quality last season. Either they've progressed (which, as I said, is not a predictable outcome), or the situation's more dire than we think with regard to the current level of competence on his roster with which John has to work.

Loving's a different story. He's coming off of a serious knee injury, and who knew how long it would take for him to get back up to par? Not everybody is Kyle Schwarber.

The only Bluejay that I think could've been projected with any certitude to be a 2016-17 starter was Rogers.

Parrelli (1) is a junior, and Loving (3), who should be EC's best player,

If he's 100%. If. Otherwise, it's probably Rogers.

Mowry (4), and Rogers (2) are 3 of the only 4 seniors on the 30 man roster for EC who appears to have wrestled the Hoarding Crown away from it's previous owner.

There's a lot to be said for seniors, but, as we all know, college basketball doesn't operate on the seniority system. If one or more of the newbies is a better option come November 15, you can be sure that John Baines will adjust his depth chart accordingly.

While there are no guarantees, I think its a good bet that these 4 will be in the opening game starting lineup.

Well, as I said, if I'd had to guess the starting lineup for the 'jays in their UWW scrimmage it would've included these four, but, again, I don't think that it "shouldn't have been too hard to predict." There's simply too many unknowns in the Elmhurst picture.

Biggest ? at this point is who mans the middle. Mueller?

Now, that would surprise me. I really wasn't impressed by Mueller when I saw him play JV last season. Of course, he might've improved dramatically over the off-season, too.

Also, I wonder if this will be the year that Michael Plunk finally sees some PT. I seem to remember he arrived in Elmhurst to great fanfare and was hailed as a future Bluejay all-conference player. His view of the floor has largely been blocked by very competent upperclassmen until this season. Will he finally become a member of the regular rotation or be relegated to the bench by any one of EC's plethora of newbies?

Plunk saw no varsity tick last season for EC, nor was he in the JV game that I saw. Was he hurt or ineligible?

[AndOne]

Greg,

I disagree with your disagreement.

1. Of course all the Elmhurst people you've talked to are "over the moon" with regard to the quality of the newbies Baines and staff have brought in. Were you expecting them to say anything else? Perhaps "we really didn't bring in much in terms of quality this year, but at least we have bodies to fill the uniforms." When you asked Tom Slyder about this year's NPU newbies wasn't he also "over the moon" about them? Aren't ALL coaches going to say they are "over the moon" about their recruits at this point? You bet they are. At least until such time as said recruits play replicates a lunar eclipse and dims much of their early November glow.
2. As you said, there are many unknowns in the Elmhurst picture. And I would venture that the majority of these unknowns are embodied in those players who are new to the system, and whom Baines and staff have not had much opportunity to get to know. On the other hand, what IS more well known are the abilities of the veterans. Accordingly, it should not have been very difficult to predict the 1st scrimmage starters as you, yourself
evidenced when you said "I would've guessed that Baines would have turned to last year's JV players first."
3. As you said, Rogers was really pretty easy to project. He probably played the most last season.
4. Of course Mowry & Parrelli were not varsity rotation members last year. We all know 9 of EC's first 10 players were now graduated seniors. I'm not sure about Mowry, but Chris Parrelli was pretty heavily recruited. Several teams besides EC would have loved to have secured his services. He had a very good senior year and and then elevated his play even more in the playoffs. EC overcame some very stiff competition to get him. It makes sense that worked as hard as they did to get him because they could see the potential he had to step up once last year's large crop of starters and other rotational played vacated the premises.
5. I'm thinking Baines would not have started Loving if he had reservations about his being fully physically capable. And, if physically ready, he was certainly an easy projection with his being expected to be EC's best player.
6. Certainly John Baines is smart enough to adjust his depth chart if one of the newbies steps up as of 11/15. That goes without saying.
7. Mueller looked at least somewhat improved when I saw him play a few times in summer league. He certainly didn't embarrass himself. Good of a guess as anyone else on the EC roster at this time.

[Gregory Sager]

Greg,

I disagree with your disagreement.

... and I disagree with your disagreement of my disagreement. (This is going to be a fun season on CCIW Chat. )

1. Of course all the Elmhurst people you've talked to are "over the moon" with regard to the quality of the newbies Baines and staff have brought in. Were you expecting them to say anything else? Perhaps "we really didn't bring in much in terms of quality this year, but at least we have bodies to fill the uniforms." When you asked Tom Slyder about this year's NPU newbies wasn't he also "over the moon" about them? Aren't ALL coaches going to say they are "over the moon" about their recruits at this point? You bet they are. At least until such time as said recruits play replicates a lunar eclipse and dims much of their early November glow.

Well, of course fans are going to hype their newbies. But you learn after awhile how to read between the lines when an insider is talking about his team in the preseason. Is he talking about the returnees to the complete exclusion of the newbies? If so, then the newbies are probably going to be relegated to the deep bench and/or the JV team. Is he talking about the newbies to the complete exclusion of the returnees? If so, it's quite possible that the returnees are either nothing much to talk about, or (as may very well be the case here) they're something of a mystery themselves, given that they've been playing JV rather than varsity for the past two, three seasons.

2. As you said, there are many unknowns in the Elmhurst picture. And I would venture that the majority of these unknowns are embodied in those players who are new to the system, and whom Baines and staff have not had much opportunity to get to know. On the other hand, what IS more well known are the abilities of the veterans. Accordingly, it should not have been very difficult to predict the 1st scrimmage starters as you, yourself
evidenced when you said "I would've guessed that Baines would have turned to last year's JV players first."

Yes, the familiarity factor is why I would've guessed that Baines would opt for the returnees rather than the newbies, all other things being equal. However, here's the thing: We didn't know if all other things were equal. If the talent factor favored the newbies, then he could've very well gone with a new-look set of Bluejays in the UWW scrimmage. That's my whole point -- nobody posting here knew one way or the other.

3. As you said, Rogers was really pretty easy to project. He probably played the most last season.

Yes, aside from Loving. But his experience goes much deeper than last year. He played in 20 varsity games as a freshman, 24 (with two starts) as a sophomore, and 17 last season.

4. Of course Mowry & Parrelli were not varsity rotation members last year. We all know 9 of EC's first 10 players were now graduated seniors. I'm not sure about Mowry, but Chris Parrelli was pretty heavily recruited. Several teams besides EC would have loved to have secured his services. He had a very good senior year and and then elevated his play even more in the playoffs. EC overcame some very stiff competition to get him. It makes sense that worked as hard as they did to get him because they could see the potential he had to step up once last year's large crop of starters and other rotational played vacated the premises.

Parrilli's high-school career is ancient history and doesn't matter anymore. What matters is how he looks now (and, to a lesser extent, what he looked like last season).

5. I'm thinking Baines would not have started Loving if he had reservations about his being fully physically capable. And, if physically ready, he was certainly an easy projection with his being expected to be EC's best player.

I'm not talking about whether or not he's "physically capable", however you choose to define that. I'm talking about whether or not his game is back (physically and mentally) to where it was when he was hurt.

6. Certainly John Baines is smart enough to adjust his depth chart if one of the newbies steps up as of 11/15. That goes without saying.
7. Mueller looked at least somewhat improved when I saw him play a few times in summer league. He certainly didn't embarrass himself. Good of a guess as anyone else on the EC roster at this time.

I'm not making any guesses at all as to whom EC will start at center.

[izzy stradlin]

Greg,

I disagree with your disagreement.

... and I disagree with your disagreement of my disagreement. (This is going to be a fun season on CCIW Chat. )

1. Of course all the Elmhurst people you've talked to are "over the moon" with regard to the quality of the newbies Baines and staff have brought in. Were you expecting them to say anything else? Perhaps "we really didn't bring in much in terms of quality this year, but at least we have bodies to fill the uniforms." When you asked Tom Slyder about this year's NPU newbies wasn't he also "over the moon" about them? Aren't ALL coaches going to say they are "over the moon" about their recruits at this point? You bet they are. At least until such time as said recruits play replicates a lunar eclipse and dims much of their early November glow.

Well, of course fans are going to hype their newbies. But you learn after awhile how to read between the lines when an insider is talking about his team in the preseason. Is he talking about the returnees to the complete exclusion of the newbies? If so, then the newbies are probably going to be relegated to the deep bench and/or the JV team. Is he talking about the newbies to the complete exclusion of the returnees? If so, it's quite possible that the returnees are either nothing much to talk about, or (as may very well be the case here) they're something of a mystery themselves, given that they've been playing JV rather than varsity for the past two, three seasons.

2. As you said, there are many unknowns in the Elmhurst picture. And I would venture that the majority of these unknowns are embodied in those players who are new to the system, and whom Baines and staff have not had much opportunity to get to know. On the other hand, what IS more well known are the abilities of the veterans. Accordingly, it should not have been very difficult to predict the 1st scrimmage starters as you, yourself
evidenced when you said "I would've guessed that Baines would have turned to last year's JV players first."

Yes, the familiarity factor is why I would've guessed that Baines would opt for the returnees rather than the newbies, all other things being equal. However, here's the thing: We didn't know if all other things were equal. If the talent factor favored the newbies, then he could've very well gone with a new-look set of Bluejays in the UWW scrimmage. That's my whole point -- nobody posting here knew one way or the other.

3. As you said, Rogers was really pretty easy to project. He probably played the most last season.

Yes, aside from Loving. But his experience goes much deeper than last year. He played in 20 varsity games as a freshman, 24 (with two starts) as a sophomore, and 17 last season.

4. Of course Mowry & Parrelli were not varsity rotation members last year. We all know 9 of EC's first 10 players were now graduated seniors. I'm not sure about Mowry, but Chris Parrelli was pretty heavily recruited. Several teams besides EC would have loved to have secured his services. He had a very good senior year and and then elevated his play even more in the playoffs. EC overcame some very stiff competition to get him. It makes sense that worked as hard as they did to get him because they could see the potential he had to step up once last year's large crop of starters and other rotational played vacated the premises.

Parrilli's high-school career is ancient history and doesn't matter anymore. What matters is how he looks now (and, to a lesser extent, what he looked like last season).

5. I'm thinking Baines would not have started Loving if he had reservations about his being fully physically capable. And, if physically ready, he was certainly an easy projection with his being expected to be EC's best player.

I'm not talking about whether or not he's "physically capable", however you choose to define that. I'm talking about whether or not his game is back (physically and mentally) to where it was when he was hurt.

6. Certainly John Baines is smart enough to adjust his depth chart if one of the newbies steps up as of 11/15. That goes without saying.
7. Mueller looked at least somewhat improved when I saw him play a few times in summer league. He certainly didn't embarrass himself. Good of a guess as anyone else on the EC roster at this time.

I'm not making any guesses at all as to whom EC will start at center.

Wow. My knowledge of CCIW basketball is clearly drifted to inadequate.  This is why I love this site-- neither of you guys are Elmhurst fans yet that doesn't stop this debate.

[Gregory Sager]

Wow. My knowledge of CCIW basketball is clearly drifted to inadequate.  This is why I love this site-- neither of you guys are Elmhurst fans yet that doesn't stop this debate.

Thanks, Iz. But, really, this is our bailiwick. Mark and Bob and I and maybe a half-dozen other CCIW hoops wonks who post here could probably argue about which CCIW gym has the best popcorn -- and we'd do it with facts and figures as well as with opinions.

We're passionate about our teams and, thus, about our league.

[Titan Q]

IWU scrimmages Olivet Nazarene at 6:30pm at the Shirk Center - varsity in the arena, JV in the practice gym.

[AppletonRocks]

I wish I could open another account, my moniker would be JuJu Hounds. 

[ChicagoView]

Good morning everyone.  First, love this site...  I have been following daily to get updates on several former players and their programs.  I have three at NC, two at Elmhurst and two at Aurora with all but one being a freshman.  Will try to participate but I am clearly biased about my guys...LOL.  I am probably more of a Elmhurst fan simply because my son took a visit there and enjoyed it as much as any D1 visit he took.  To this day, three years later, my son still checks in on how Elmhurst is doing.  Just going to throw this out there knowing his dad  (who I see now posts on this board) and Coach Baines are probably going to kill me, but I can't imagine Rhode not playing a key role for Elmhurst.  Kid was most underrated PG in the state last year.  Every match up I witnessed this kid play against every top ranked PG last year he won.  So keep the info coming and sorry John and Coach B, had to say something.  Go Elmhurst!  Go Aurora!  Go North Central!   I am not a kid, not a player, have no inside info from anyone, just a former HS and AAU coach enjoying the passion shared on this board about basketball who is probably about to get yelled at by a certain players dad.  LOL.  Good luck to everyone and I am sure I will see you at the games.     

[Gregory Sager]

You clearly have an insider view of local suburban talent, ChicagoView, so, regardless of whether or not a player's dad yells at you, your active participation here is most welcome. Keep posting, please!