MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

I kinda doubt that a lot of Top 25 pollsters read this particular board.

Sure they do. Why wouldn't they?

Ya, why wouldn't they?
Wouldn't that be an obvious and easy way to accumulate some of the voluminous amount of information they obviously possess?

Ever tried reading all of the men's basketball boards on d3boards.com, guys? It's a pretty time-consuming process. Just ask Pat or Gordon if you don't believe me. The pollsters are coaches and SIDs, for the most part, and they don't have unlimited time on their hands. Given how rapidly CCIW Chat scrolls, especially on game nights, it's hard to keep up with it during the season unless you're doing so on at least an every-other-day basis.

I'm sure that some of the pollsters read CCIW Chat. We know that Ryan and D-Mac and Gordon read it, of course, because they post here. But I tend to doubt that Coach X from a Middle Atlantic Region school or Sports Information Director Y from a South Region school reads it, or at least they've never done more than glance at it a time or two. I can't prove that, but I suspect it based upon time constraints ... unless Pat or Gordon or D-Mac have made inquiries among the pollsters as to how many of them read CCIW Chat and can tell us differently.

I'm really surprised the respect d3.com continues to give North Central

It is a little surprising 4samuy. However, perhaps payback is responsible as in previous recent years the Cardinals weren't always given the credit they should have been afforded.

I strongly doubt that. But your "seriously" in the next paragraph indicates to me that you don't put much stock in this theory, either ... which is good, because for a moment there I was starting to wonder if you were an alumnus of Marietta rather than Nebraska Wesleyan.

Seriously, with 3 losses, including a preformance produced in a lesser galaxy, and another that had the odor of Limburger cheese, it is a bit surprising that Cards currently occupy the 20th spot. A tribute to the remaining original starters Alex Sorenson, Jagger Anderson, Erwin Henry, and Aiden Chang? Perhaps, as they are certainly a talented group. Recognition of the improving Jack Bronec, and the emergence over the last few games of freshmen Nick Chambers (double figures in the last 4 games) and Matt Cappelletti (double figures in the last 2 games), and their expected continued meaningful contributions? Who knows?

I still think that this is an Occam's Razor situation. The most likely explanation for NCC remaining in the poll in spite of a comparatively tepid record, aside from the fact that the Cardinals are probably buoyed to an extent by their wins over standing-pat Benedictine and rising Illinois Wesleyan, is that a number of the pollsters still aren't aware that one of NCC's two preseason All-Americans is out for at least a month. That's the explanation I'm buying, unless Gordon tells us that he's informed all of the pollsters about Raridon's broken finger.

If the ranking isn't deserved, hopefully the Cardinals can use the misplaced honor as inspiration to elevate their level of play. If it is deserved, then the return of Connor Raridon can make NCC a truly formidable team down the stretch.

Oh, I'm certain that North Central is going to be a truly formidable team down the stretch regardless of whether or not the Cardinals are ranked. As I've said before, they're going to be a tough out even sans Raridon, to say nothing of how difficult it will be to beat them once (if?) he returns.

I'm surprised NCC dropped so far - the voters must have actually heard about an injury.  That's pretty rare.

The Cards lost by seven on their home floor to Robert Morris-Chicago this past week, giving them their third loss of the season. Granted, I doubt that most pollsters have much of an awareness of the caliber of NAIA programs outside of their immediate vicinity, so they may not have been aware that the Eagles are a program that's typically displayed a lot of prowess on the NAIA level. But if they looked at the 8-4 record that RMUC had posted prior to beating the Cards at the airplane hangar last week, they would've noticed that the Eagles had gone 0-2 against the two other D3 teams they'd faced this season. Granted, those two teams -- UW-River Falls and UW-Stout -- are no slouches, but that prior 0-2 mark for RMUC against D3 still might've counted against NCC when the Cards lost that game to the Eagles.

The other thing is this: North Central has three losses. The only other team in the poll that has three losses is Wash U, and the Bears are clinging to #25 a mere seven points above archrival Chicago (whom I'm not yet convinced is a lesser team than Wash U, by the way). At this stage of the season, three losses is a real drag on any team that wants to stake a claim to a Top 25 spot. So why wouldn't the pollsters drop NCC seven places yesterday, even if they weren't aware of the injury to Raridon?

[Gregory Sager]

With reference to my post above, this excerpt taken from D-Mac's Top 25 ballot blog post from earlier this morning is Exhibit A:

15 – North Central (Down 2)
Not much I can say about the Cardinals except that maybe I expected too much from this team earlier this year. They are coming off a loss to an NAIA team which is usually hard to read in to, however other Division III schools have beaten the same team, so I can read into it a little bit. I guess I am just left with more questions coming the holiday break about NCC than I did in the preseason.

He cited RMUC's two losses to the WIAC teams as being instrumental in his downgrading of the Cardinals, and he didn't mention Connor Raridon at all.

[lmitzel]

I wish I knew what was going on with NCC. Those wins over teams like Illinois Wesleyan and decent Aurora/Benedictine teams are the only thing keeping the Cardinals in the rankings. Those losses, all at home, where they've looked awful kind of scream that they're a team that doesn't belong in the Top 25. Of course, we've got the mitigating factor of Connor Raridon being out, but it's still alarming.

It's going to be pretty funny if all of this hand wringing and head scratching gets silenced on the wings of a ten-game winning streak in CCIW play and we all collectively go, "Holy crap." I'm not counting on it, because that's almost impossible to do in the CCIW, but a man can dream.

They can go a long way towards that goal in their game currently being played down in Ft. Lauderdale against Wartburg... which we can't keep track of very well because there are no live stats or video unless you want to shell out $8.95 for the privilege. I hate that so many of these tournaments either don't allow out of town fans to follow along, or if they do, hide that access behind a paywall. I get why they do it, but it's a shame.

[Gregory Sager]

They can go a long way towards that goal in their game currently being played down in Ft. Lauderdale against Wartburg... which we can't keep track of very well because there are no live stats or video unless you want to shell out $8.95 for the privilege. I hate that so many of these tournaments either don't allow out of town fans to follow along, or if they do, hide that access behind a paywall. I get why they do it, but it's a shame.

Amen to that particular frustration.

[AndOne]

Yep. Been looking all over the place for a way to possibly view the game without paying the exorbitant $8.95 fee. But, unfortunately, no luck. Bummer.

[AndOne]

I wish I knew what was going on with NCC. Those wins over teams like Illinois Wesleyan and decent Aurora/Benedictine teams are the only thing keeping the Cardinals in the rankings. Those losses, all at home, where they've looked awful kind of scream that they're a team that doesn't belong in the Top 25. Of course, we've got the mitigating factor of Connor Raridon being out, but it's still alarming.

It's going to be pretty funny if all of this hand wringing and head scratching gets silenced on the wings of a ten-game winning streak in CCIW play and we all collectively go, "Holy crap." I'm not counting on it, because that's almost impossible to do in the CCIW, but a man can dream.

In 2011, NCC compiled a 4-7 non-conference record, and then proceeded to stand the CCIW on its head as they totally unexpectedly reeled off an 11-3 conference record to finish first in the conference. ALMOST is the key word.
And, of course, there were no key guys out injured for an extended time.

[Gregory Sager]

North Central's Massey reading has been corrected, with the loss to RMUC added. However, none of today's games have been factored in yet. So the current Massey, save for CC, EC, and MU, is:

    7. North Park
  18. Illinois Wesleyan
  20. Augustana
  40. North Central
  52. Wheaton
  60. Carroll
  95. Carthage*
124. Elmhurst*
369. Millikin*

Massey sez:

@ LaVerne 85, Carthage* 83 (LaVerne 53%, CC 47%)
Carroll 70, @ MSOE 58 (CU 85%, MSOE 15%)
@ Illinois Wesleyan 77, Chicago 74 (IWU 59%, Chicago 41%)
North Central 74, Wartburg 73 (NCC 52%, Wartburg 48%)

Here's the updates:

    7. North Park
  19. Illinois Wesleyan
  20. Augustana
  35. North Central
  48. Wheaton
  56. Carroll
  86. Carthage
112. Elmhurst
371. Millikin*

(Millikin's win hasn't been registered yet.)

It's always fascinating to watch how teams move up and down on Massey on off-days.

Carthage is now a one-point underdog against LaVerne rather than a two-point underdog (and the probability is now 51/49). Neither the prediction nor the probability has moved with regard to Carroll vs. MSOE or for IWU vs. Chicago; same holds true for NCC vs. Wartburg, except that now, for some reason, the HAL 9000 is predicting a 73-72 Cardinals win rather than 74-73.

[AndOne]

A one point victory by any score will be perfectly acceptable. 

You would think they would at least provide live stats!

[AndOne]

Apparently, as time was expiring, NCC's Aiden Chang hit a three to sent the game to OT tied at 69.

Then, with 0.6 left in the first OT, Jagger Anderson hit another from downtown to send it to a 2nd OT tied at 86!

[lmitzel]

Apparently, as time was expiring, NCC's Aiden Chang hit a three to sent the game to OT tied at 69.

Then, with 0.6 left in the first OT, Jagger Anderson hit another from downtown to send it to a 2nd OT tied at 86!

And it's final: NCC 94, Wartburg 91 in double overtime!

The lesson as always: Paywalls suck.

[AndOne]

NCC pulls out a 94-91 double OT win over # 19 Wartburg in Honolulu Ft. Lauderdale! 

Connor who? LOL! 

[D3_Commenter]

NCC pulls out a 94-91 double OT win over # 19 Wartburg in Honolulu!! 

Connor who? LOL! 

I think they're in Florida - What a win by the cards, top 25 win without an all-conference level player!

[D3_Commenter]

I wish I knew what was going on with NCC. Those wins over teams like Illinois Wesleyan and decent Aurora/Benedictine teams are the only thing keeping the Cardinals in the rankings. Those losses, all at home, where they've looked awful kind of scream that they're a team that doesn't belong in the Top 25. Of course, we've got the mitigating factor of Connor Raridon being out, but it's still alarming.

Correct me if I am wrong but, Connor played in all of the losses...

[AndOne]

NCC pulls out a 94-91 double OT win over # 19 Wartburg in Honolulu!! 

Connor who? LOL! 

I think they're in Florida - What a win by the cards, top 25 win without an all-conference level player!

Yep. The Cardinal women are in Honolulu. 

[Gregory Sager]

NCC pulls out a 94-91 double OT win over # 19 Wartburg in Honolulu!! 

Connor who? LOL! 

I think they're in Florida - What a win by the cards, top 25 win without an all-conference level player!

Yep. The Cardinal women are in Honolulu. 

No biggie. As far as I'm concerned right now, warm is warm.